The Future of Power Generation in Great Britain

[Condi]

V8 Fettler said:

Are you bailing out ... again?

Practical and pragmatic = coal, because it works when gas and wind are failing.

The reality is that a rebellious post-Brexit UK would be likely to walk away from the Paris climate change agreement if it suited the UK.

Bailing out?

No, but trying to have a rational discussion is totally pointless because you refuse to see any other point of view, or accept that coal is ending, like it or not, under the current government policy. Whether you think that is right or wrong is neither here nor there, but if you strongly believe it is wrong then go lobby the government rather than filling this thread with such reliable sources as the 'Stop These Things' website - entirely devoted to campaigning against wind turbines - and other reliable sources like the Daily Mail.

When its possible to have a rational and reasonable discussion then I'll contribute, until then enjoy getting wound up about something you cant change.



BTW - Chances of the UK leaving the Paris agreement after Brexit is 0. Sorry to burst another bubble for you.

[V8 Fettler]

Condi said:

V8 Fettler said:

Are you bailing out ... again?

Practical and pragmatic = coal, because it works when gas and wind are failing.

The reality is that a rebellious post-Brexit UK would be likely to walk away from the Paris climate change agreement if it suited the UK.

Bailing out?

No, but trying to have a rational discussion is totally pointless because you refuse to see any other point of view, or accept that coal is ending, like it or not, under the current government policy. Whether you think that is right or wrong is neither here nor there, but if you strongly believe it is wrong then go lobby the government rather than filling this thread with such reliable sources as the 'Stop These Things' website - entirely devoted to campaigning against wind turbines - and other reliable sources like the Daily Mail.

When its possible to have a rational and reasonable discussion then I'll contribute, until then enjoy getting wound up about something you cant change.



BTW - Chances of the UK leaving the Paris agreement after Brexit is 0. Sorry to burst another bubble for you.

You flounced from this thread earlier this year, I was just wondering if you going to do the same again. Not that there's anything wrong with flouncing you understand.

I generally avoid flail links. The anti-renewablists website is quite vociferous, but I feel that it adds balance, the "about" page provides some background https://stopthesethings.com/about/

There were many who felt that the possibility of the UK leaving the EU was zero, how wrong they were. If widespread power cuts occur due to the lack of coal then the population of a post-Brexit UK is unlikely to listen to those who support the cult of wind.

[Condi]

V8 Fettler said:

There were many who felt that the possibility of the UK leaving the EU was zero, how wrong they were. If widespread power cuts occur due to the lack of coal then the population of a post-Brexit UK is unlikely to listen to those who support the cult of wind.

The government is far more likely to invest in new nuclear than new coal, not least because when the UK leaves the EU it will want to be seen as an engaged, outward looking member of the international community. Pulling out of, or ignoring, an agreement which was signed by nearly every other country in the world does not give that impression.

[PRTVR]

Condi said:

Bailing out?

No, but trying to have a rational discussion is totally pointless because you refuse to see any other point of view, or accept that coal is ending, like it or not, under the current government policy. Whether you think that is right or wrong is neither here nor there, but if you strongly believe it is wrong then go lobby the government rather than filling this thread with such reliable sources as the 'Stop These Things' website - entirely devoted to campaigning against wind turbines - and other reliable sources like the Daily Mail.

When its possible to have a rational and reasonable discussion then I'll contribute, until then enjoy getting wound up about something you cant change.



BTW - Chances of the UK leaving the Paris agreement after Brexit is 0. Sorry to burst another bubble for you.

If there is two choices, coal and the lights stay on or no coal and the lights go out which would you prefer ?
The problem I foresee is that it will be to late after the event to change our mind, power stations are not built overnight, bring on the diesel generator sets, the futures bright... I mean dim.
I have not read of anything that will replace gas except small scale nuclear and that apparently is a none starter in the UK, what do you think will replace gas if it becomes unavailable ?

[Evanivitch]

V8 Fettler said:

I generally avoid flail links. The anti-renewablists website is quite vociferous, but I feel that it adds balance, the "about" page provides some background https://stopthesethings.com/about/

Do you believe that infrasound is a genuine health impact of wind turbines?

[V8 Fettler]

Condi said:

V8 Fettler said:

There were many who felt that the possibility of the UK leaving the EU was zero, how wrong they were. If widespread power cuts occur due to the lack of coal then the population of a post-Brexit UK is unlikely to listen to those who support the cult of wind.

The government is far more likely to invest in new nuclear than new coal, not least because when the UK leaves the EU it will want to be seen as an engaged, outward looking member of the international community. Pulling out of, or ignoring, an agreement which was signed by nearly every other country in the world does not give that impression.

Timescales, five years to build DRAX x 6, 20 years to build nuclear at - perhaps - five times the cost.

[Condi]

V8 Fettler said:

I generally avoid flail links. The anti-renewablists website is quite vociferous, but I feel that it adds balance, the "about" page provides some background https://stopthesethings.com/about/

So a website which was set up from day 1 to oppose wind turbines is 'balanced'? What about the vast slew of scientific opinion which says that CO2 emissions are harming the planet that you've ignored?


And then you wonder why on earth this discussion is pointless - you only listen to the side of the argument you want, and with the internet there are enough ignorant people writing articles to corroborate your opinion, regardless of the scientific facts.

[V8 Fettler]

Evanivitch said:

V8 Fettler said:

As previously, the energy security provided by coal is a function of the ability to stockpile months of coal. Our "stockpile" of gas is a few days.

As previously, the UK sits on approx 20 trillion tonnes of coal, some of which is readily accessible, some of which isn't.

Reference for reserves? This source (from industry) estimates at at most 187 Billion with only 80 million tonnes currently economical.

https://euracoal.eu/info/country-profiles/united-k...

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10976533.What_to_do_about_North_Sea_coal__the_23_trillion_ton_question/

Some is accessible, some isn't.

[V8 Fettler]

Condi said:

V8 Fettler said:

I generally avoid flail links. The anti-renewablists website is quite vociferous, but I feel that it adds balance, the "about" page provides some background https://stopthesethings.com/about/

So a website which was set up from day 1 to oppose wind turbines is 'balanced'? What about the vast slew of scientific opinion which says that CO2 emissions are harming the planet that you've ignored?


And then you wonder why on earth this discussion is pointless - you only listen to the side of the argument you want, and with the internet there are enough ignorant people writing articles to corroborate your opinion, regardless of the scientific facts.

You are confusing "is balanced" with "add balance". What scientific facts are you referring to? Be careful not to confuse facts with opinion.

[Evanivitch]

V8 Fettler said:

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10976533.Wh...

Some is accessible, some isn't.

Where is that stated in the article?

[PRTVR]

Condi said:

V8 Fettler said:

I generally avoid flail links. The anti-renewablists website is quite vociferous, but I feel that it adds balance, the "about" page provides some background https://stopthesethings.com/about/

So a website which was set up from day 1 to oppose wind turbines is 'balanced'? What about the vast slew of scientific opinion which says that CO2 emissions are harming the planet that you've ignored?


And then you wonder why on earth this discussion is pointless - you only listen to the side of the argument you want, and with the internet there are enough ignorant people writing articles to corroborate your opinion, regardless of the scientific facts.

But you again miss the big picture, the global picture, at the time the decision to cut back on coal in the UK, Asia was building and planning to build massive numbers of coal fired power stations China was at one a week, tell me again the difference global the UK shutting down our few coal stations will actually make to world wide man made CO2 production?

[turbobloke]

Talking of coal here's more detail on a recent news item.,,how about this for an ecoenergyclimategreenblobby award, or two.

Germany is razing a 12,000-year-old forest to make way for a coal mine

https://qz.com/1389135/germany-is-razing-a-12000-y...

Tricky one...keep "not intermittent" nuclear power with its ultralow carbon dioxide emissions supposedly in keeping with a saved planet, or phase out the reactors and hack down trees to mine and burn coal. Naturally the coal wins. Could it possibly be made up? That's climatewang.

[V8 Fettler]

Evanivitch said:

V8 Fettler said:

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10976533.Wh...

Some is accessible, some isn't.

Where is that stated in the article?

You are aware that coal is still extracted in the UK? That's the coal that's readily accessible.

[wc98]

Evanivitch said:

And that's economic?

Given that the Daily Mail as always are somewhat slim on the facts (great reference by the way), how do they intend to extract it? Gasification? Best I can find are mines that extend out to the sea, and they're only 900m.

given you could walk 5000m from one side of the forth to the other in 1964 through a pit tunnel i am not sure that is correct.

[wc98]

turbobloke said:

Talking of coal here's more detail on a recent news item.,,how about this for an ecoenergyclimategreenblobby award, or two.

Germany is razing a 12,000-year-old forest to make way for a coal mine

https://qz.com/1389135/germany-is-razing-a-12000-y...

Tricky one...keep "not intermittent" nuclear power with its ultralow carbon dioxide emissions supposedly in keeping with a saved planet, or phase out the reactors and hack down trees to mine and burn coal. Naturally the coal wins. Could it possibly be made up? That's climatewang.

they can burn the trees in eco friendly biomass plants to keep the green blob happy, win,win !

[turbobloke]

wc98 said:

turbobloke said:

Talking of coal here's more detail on a recent news item.,,how about this for an ecoenergyclimategreenblobby award, or two.

Germany is razing a 12,000-year-old forest to make way for a coal mine

https://qz.com/1389135/germany-is-razing-a-12000-y...

Tricky one...keep "not intermittent" nuclear power with its ultralow carbon dioxide emissions supposedly in keeping with a saved planet, or phase out the reactors and hack down trees to mine and burn coal. Naturally the coal wins. Could it possibly be made up? That's climatewang.

they can burn the trees in eco friendly biomass plants to keep the green blob happy, win,win !

Hug a tree, hack a tree, easymistaykatamayka.

[dickymint]

wc98 said:

turbobloke said:

Talking of coal here's more detail on a recent news item.,,how about this for an ecoenergyclimategreenblobby award, or two.

Germany is razing a 12,000-year-old forest to make way for a coal mine

https://qz.com/1389135/germany-is-razing-a-12000-y...

Tricky one...keep "not intermittent" nuclear power with its ultralow carbon dioxide emissions supposedly in keeping with a saved planet, or phase out the reactors and hack down trees to mine and burn coal. Naturally the coal wins. Could it possibly be made up? That's climatewang.

they can burn the trees in eco friendly biomass plants to keep the green blob happy, win,win !

Likewise digging coal offshore...........lowering sea-levels, win,win

[turbobloke]

Sea level and SST: drop a (small) iced lollipop into the sea and take home a captured bucket of seawater for storage.

Every little helps.

[turbobloke]

Cuadrilla to start fracking in England in weeks.

"LONDON, Sept 19 (Reuters) – Shale gas developer Cuadrilla will start fracking at its Preston New Road site in northwest England in the next few weeks, it said on Wednesday as it announced government approval for a second well."

[rolando]

turbobloke said:

Cuadrilla to start fracking in England in weeks.

"LONDON, Sept 19 (Reuters) – Shale gas developer Cuadrilla will start fracking at its Preston New Road site in northwest England in the next few weeks, it said on Wednesday as it announced government approval for a second well."

Excellent!