The Future of Power Generation in Great Britain
Discussion
dxg said:
Any thoughts on this?
https://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/scottish...
I knew there were subsidies involved. But I did not realise we were paying windfarms to STOP them making power. The whole thing's a subsidies (read: political) game...
A see a lightbulb moment from dxg who has realised the truth behind the renewables scam.https://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/scottish...
I knew there were subsidies involved. But I did not realise we were paying windfarms to STOP them making power. The whole thing's a subsidies (read: political) game...
With the elimination of feed in tariffs for solar installations and the recent discussions about paying wind farms (for example) to stop generating when there is an excess of supply if occurs to me that any "smart meter" managed domestic system could be encouraged to consume excess energy - as a balancing resource - and be paid for doing so.
Rather than just pay wind farms to shut down why not pay consumers to make use of the "free" energy?
That seems much more logical than rejecting something that is a free gift from nature. Or your God if that seems more logical to you. The net result wold be the same.
Rather than just pay wind farms to shut down why not pay consumers to make use of the "free" energy?
That seems much more logical than rejecting something that is a free gift from nature. Or your God if that seems more logical to you. The net result wold be the same.
LongQ said:
Rather than just pay wind farms to shut down why not pay consumers to make use of the "free" energy?
Look, it is bad enough trying to convince my wife not to entirely fill the kettle and boil it every 10 minutes as she keeps forgetting to make her espresso when we pay for the electricity, if juice is free she'll probably gaffer tape the kettle to be permanently on. She's already used the lifetime supply from Heysham on wasted cups of tea, don't encourage her.But wait,....................... what about if we used the spare electricity from the electricity windmills to boil kettles to make steam to turn generators which could power special lights that shine on solar panels that supply electricity to pumps to move all our water uphill so it can run back down through dynamos when the wind stops blowing and those dynamos can power some big Dyson fans that blow at the windmills and so on and so forth.
Probably find it is "too cheap to meter" and thus avoids the need to roll Smart Meters out as well!
The "Stan Tonks for Energy Minister PR campaign" starts here.
StanleyT said:
LongQ said:
Rather than just pay wind farms to shut down why not pay consumers to make use of the "free" energy?
Look, it is bad enough trying to convince my wife not to entirely fill the kettle and boil it every 10 minutes as she keeps forgetting to make her espresso when we pay for the electricity, if juice is free she'll probably gaffer tape the kettle to be permanently on. She's already used the lifetime supply from Heysham on wasted cups of tea, don't encourage her.But wait,....................... what about if we used the spare electricity from the electricity windmills to boil kettles to make steam to turn generators which could power special lights that shine on solar panels that supply electricity to pumps to move all our water uphill so it can run back down through dynamos when the wind stops blowing and those dynamos can power some big Dyson fans that blow at the windmills and so on and so forth.
Probably find it is "too cheap to meter" and thus avoids the need to roll Smart Meters out as well!
The "Stan Tonks for Energy Minister PR campaign" starts here.
Hydrogen is the fuel of the devil.
I don't "do" Hydrogen. Had enough of that "heavy sh&t" Tritium stuff in a previous job. Though I must admit I'm quite looking forward to the day when we start pumping hydrogen down our natural gas pipelines and it reacts with sulphur en-grained in the pipes from the "smell flavour" of natural gas and leads to advanced Hydrogen embrittlement of our gas network, or so one of the corrosion engineers at work tells us every day!
Now, Helium, now you are talking! (In a funny voice)!
I was sat on a train today and the guy next to me was writing a "spoof" about aliens visiting planet earth. It turns out that they have come here as we have coal reserves. Their spaceships are powered by coal derived propulsion systems. They wrecked their own planet as that built too many electricity windmills and it took so much energy out their atmosphere that there was no longer a "boundary layer" of atmosphere between the planet and space and the planet cooled down as it was no longer getting friction from rotating and as it slowed down rotating it also lost it's orbit momentum and eventually fell into it's own sun to be burnt up!!!!!!!!!!! (I did a couple of double takes as they guy looked quite "Ben Elton-y" but he had a reet broad Lanky accent so I think not. (Gary C you weren't on the Lancaster - Preston Pendalino at 1pm were you.............................).
I don't "do" Hydrogen. Had enough of that "heavy sh&t" Tritium stuff in a previous job. Though I must admit I'm quite looking forward to the day when we start pumping hydrogen down our natural gas pipelines and it reacts with sulphur en-grained in the pipes from the "smell flavour" of natural gas and leads to advanced Hydrogen embrittlement of our gas network, or so one of the corrosion engineers at work tells us every day!
Now, Helium, now you are talking! (In a funny voice)!
I was sat on a train today and the guy next to me was writing a "spoof" about aliens visiting planet earth. It turns out that they have come here as we have coal reserves. Their spaceships are powered by coal derived propulsion systems. They wrecked their own planet as that built too many electricity windmills and it took so much energy out their atmosphere that there was no longer a "boundary layer" of atmosphere between the planet and space and the planet cooled down as it was no longer getting friction from rotating and as it slowed down rotating it also lost it's orbit momentum and eventually fell into it's own sun to be burnt up!!!!!!!!!!! (I did a couple of double takes as they guy looked quite "Ben Elton-y" but he had a reet broad Lanky accent so I think not. (Gary C you weren't on the Lancaster - Preston Pendalino at 1pm were you.............................).
Evanivitch said:
I don't disagree.
But it's a great way to sink unwanted electricity.
Wouldn't it be better to get some massive FO "Marshall Stacks" next to eleastictrickery windmills and get them to play "Won't Get Fooled Again" by the Who whenever there was excess generation - wasn't that how Pete Townsends guitars technique got to be called "windmilling"?But it's a great way to sink unwanted electricity.
StanleyT said:
Look, it is bad enough trying to convince my wife not to entirely fill the kettle and boil it every 10 minutes as she keeps forgetting to make her espresso when we pay for the electricity, if juice is free she'll probably gaffer tape the kettle to be permanently on. She's already used the lifetime supply from Heysham on wasted cups of tea, don't encourage her.
I think they all do that. Seems to be a feature of that model. Mine seems to be pre-programmed to always "top up" a kettle that already contains a litre of just boiled water so that she will be sure to have enough to make a 300ml mug of coffee. Also needing far more heating or cooling than usual - especially heating when it is already hot and cooling when already cool.
And lights. Lots of lights (otherwise you get candles proposed as an alternative for something. I'm never sure what they are alternatives for.)
And Ironing. Leave the iron on all day for a few minutes of use here and there and end up with it so hot that it melts strands of material onto the base plate and then needs cleaning (or replacing).
If one could harvest that base plate deposit and use it to make the leading edge of offshore wind turbine blades one could make a fortune.
After the worst year ever for energy price rises, households are set to suffer more hikes in January
Lucky us
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
Lucky us
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
turbobloke said:
After the worst year ever for energy price rises, households are set to suffer more hikes in January
Lucky us
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
Yet we still pay less than the European average. Lucky us
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
And the article is somewhat misleading describing it as 'the worst year for prices rises'. When there were only 6 energy suppliers then its hardly surprising that there were fewer price rises than when there are 70 energy suppliers. Any given individual consumer hasnt had 'the worst year for price rises'.
But as per usual with your posts, the nuances of facts actually being correct and relevent to any point you're making are lost.
Energy Price Cap Looms After UK Hit By 57 Price Rises In 2018 Compared To 15 In 2017 (says The Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/dec/28/u...
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/dec/28/u...
turbobloke said:
Energy Price Cap Looms After UK Hit By 57 Price Rises In 2018 Compared To 15 In 2017 (says The Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/dec/28/u...
Based on the same story as your article above, which was also showed to be nonsense. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/dec/28/u...
Considering there have been 7 small suppliers go bust this year, and all the big 6 are losing money on their retail customers - so much so that SSE and NPower are no longer merging their retail divisions - the a price cap is simply going to mean more suppliers going bust, or everyone charging the same amount (ie the max possible).
Do you know what percentage of a householders bill is from renewable subsidies, and do you know what percentage is made up from wholesale prices?
Maybe you could also answer how wholesale prices are supposed to remain level when the gas price (you like gas generation) has been going up all year?
UK gas prices.
https://www.erce.energy/graph/uk-natural-gas-nbp-s...
Condi said:
turbobloke said:
After the worst year ever for energy price rises, households are set to suffer more hikes in January
Lucky us
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
Yet we still pay less than the European average. Lucky us
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
And the article is somewhat misleading describing it as 'the worst year for prices rises'. When there were only 6 energy suppliers then its hardly surprising that there were fewer price rises than when there are 70 energy suppliers. Any given individual consumer hasnt had 'the worst year for price rises'.
But as per usual with your posts, the nuances of facts actually being correct and relevent to any point you're making are lost.
As previously posted, the primary reason why the UK can't enjoy energy prices at a similar level to the US (i.e. 50% lower) is that we are afflicted by the drive towards renewable energy with the associated costs.
Condi said:
turbobloke said:
After the worst year ever for energy price rises, households are set to suffer more hikes in January
Lucky us
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
Yet we still pay less than the European average. Lucky us
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
V8 Fettler said:
As previously posted, the primary reason why the UK can't enjoy energy prices at a similar level to the US (i.e. 50% lower) is that we are afflicted by the drive towards renewable energy with the associated costs.
Thats simply not true. You've ignored everything else which makes up the cost of power, such as the environment, natural resources, weather patterns, consumer demands, cost of transportation etc. Also, parts of the US have a higher penetration of renewables than we do in the UK. US prices are not 50% lower, average cost of US power is about $0.128/kwh (10.1p) vs UK cost of power 14.4p/kwh.
If we were sat on vast natural energy resources, and an ocean away from our nearest export customer, then our wholesale gas and oil costs would be lower, which would in turn lead to a lower cost of power, irrespective of any renewable subsidies.
V8 Fettler said:
Condi said:
turbobloke said:
After the worst year ever for energy price rises, households are set to suffer more hikes in January
Lucky us
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
Yet we still pay less than the European average. Lucky us
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
And the article is somewhat misleading describing it as 'the worst year for prices rises'. When there were only 6 energy suppliers then its hardly surprising that there were fewer price rises than when there are 70 energy suppliers. Any given individual consumer hasnt had 'the worst year for price rises'.
But as per usual with your posts, the nuances of facts actually being correct and relevent to any point you're making are lost.
As previously posted, the primary reason why the UK can't enjoy energy prices at a similar level to the US (i.e. 50% lower) is that we are afflicted by the drive towards renewable energy with the associated costs.
Condi said:
V8 Fettler said:
As previously posted, the primary reason why the UK can't enjoy energy prices at a similar level to the US (i.e. 50% lower) is that we are afflicted by the drive towards renewable energy with the associated costs.
Thats simply not true. You've ignored everything else which makes up the cost of power, such as the environment, natural resources, weather patterns, consumer demands, cost of transportation etc. Also, parts of the US have a higher penetration of renewables than we do in the UK. US prices are not 50% lower, average cost of US power is about $0.128/kwh (10.1p) vs UK cost of power 14.4p/kwh.
If we were sat on vast natural energy resources, and an ocean away from our nearest export customer, then our wholesale gas and oil costs would be lower, which would in turn lead to a lower cost of power, irrespective of any renewable subsidies.
As previously posted, my view of breakdown of cost to UK consumer:
Generation costs + profit
Transmission/Distribution costs + profit (inc transmission/distribution losses)
Tax
Subsidy
Any more?
UK transmission/distribution costs should be lower than the US (higher population density, benign maritime climate), UK generating costs could be substantially reduced if a competent energy strategy in previous decades had resulted in a fleet of PWRs and DRAX x 6.
GroundEffect said:
V8 Fettler said:
Condi said:
turbobloke said:
After the worst year ever for energy price rises, households are set to suffer more hikes in January
Lucky us
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
Yet we still pay less than the European average. Lucky us
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
And the article is somewhat misleading describing it as 'the worst year for prices rises'. When there were only 6 energy suppliers then its hardly surprising that there were fewer price rises than when there are 70 energy suppliers. Any given individual consumer hasnt had 'the worst year for price rises'.
But as per usual with your posts, the nuances of facts actually being correct and relevent to any point you're making are lost.
As previously posted, the primary reason why the UK can't enjoy energy prices at a similar level to the US (i.e. 50% lower) is that we are afflicted by the drive towards renewable energy with the associated costs.
US electricity costs are half that of UK electricity costs, see post above.
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