The Future of Power Generation in Great Britain
Discussion
And if you want to take all of this with nothing but a pinch of Salt, you are in luck !
"Swedish energy giant Vattenfall is working with compatriot company SaltX Technology to test how renewable wind and solar power can be stored in salt.
A 10 megawatt-hour pilot plant at the Reuter thermal power plant in Spandau, Berlin, was officially commissioned today.
Technology developed by SaltX will be tested for the first time on an industrial scale at the plant, Vattenfall said.
The system is based on nano-coated salt that enables a 'salt battery' to be charged several thousand times storing energy for weeks or months without losses, it added.
The tests will run until the end of the summer 2019, after which the data will be evaluated and the results presented at the end of the year.
Vattenfall Warme Berlin executive responsible for the project Markus Witt said: “In the next few months, we will collect important data to get answers to the question of whether and how this type of plant can be used in our business.
“Some questions are how large amounts of salt can be used, how quickly the storage medium reacts and how the process can be controlled.”
SaltX chief executive Harald Bauer said: “The energy sector is changing quickly, and we globally see an enormous need for energy storage. Germany is a country at the forefront of this development and we are proud to have Vattenfall as a partner.
“We are eager to launch our energy storage solution commercially as quickly as possible.”
"
This ^^^^ is progress ! , innovation and the way forward for all of the energy matrix as it evolves and shapes our future, trimming the peak demands with storage - of many different types and shapes.
(ETA - apols for further Non-UK content)
"Swedish energy giant Vattenfall is working with compatriot company SaltX Technology to test how renewable wind and solar power can be stored in salt.
A 10 megawatt-hour pilot plant at the Reuter thermal power plant in Spandau, Berlin, was officially commissioned today.
Technology developed by SaltX will be tested for the first time on an industrial scale at the plant, Vattenfall said.
The system is based on nano-coated salt that enables a 'salt battery' to be charged several thousand times storing energy for weeks or months without losses, it added.
The tests will run until the end of the summer 2019, after which the data will be evaluated and the results presented at the end of the year.
Vattenfall Warme Berlin executive responsible for the project Markus Witt said: “In the next few months, we will collect important data to get answers to the question of whether and how this type of plant can be used in our business.
“Some questions are how large amounts of salt can be used, how quickly the storage medium reacts and how the process can be controlled.”
SaltX chief executive Harald Bauer said: “The energy sector is changing quickly, and we globally see an enormous need for energy storage. Germany is a country at the forefront of this development and we are proud to have Vattenfall as a partner.
“We are eager to launch our energy storage solution commercially as quickly as possible.”
"
This ^^^^ is progress ! , innovation and the way forward for all of the energy matrix as it evolves and shapes our future, trimming the peak demands with storage - of many different types and shapes.
(ETA - apols for further Non-UK content)
WhatHappenedThere said:
And if you want to take all of this with nothing but a pinch of Salt, you are in luck !
"Swedish energy giant Vattenfall is working with compatriot company SaltX Technology to test how renewable wind and solar power can be stored in salt.
A 10 megawatt-hour pilot plant at the Reuter thermal power plant in Spandau, Berlin, was officially commissioned today.
Technology developed by SaltX will be tested for the first time on an industrial scale at the plant, Vattenfall said.
The system is based on nano-coated salt that enables a 'salt battery' to be charged several thousand times storing energy for weeks or months without losses, it added.
The tests will run until the end of the summer 2019, after which the data will be evaluated and the results presented at the end of the year.
Vattenfall Warme Berlin executive responsible for the project Markus Witt said: “In the next few months, we will collect important data to get answers to the question of whether and how this type of plant can be used in our business.
“Some questions are how large amounts of salt can be used, how quickly the storage medium reacts and how the process can be controlled.”
SaltX chief executive Harald Bauer said: “The energy sector is changing quickly, and we globally see an enormous need for energy storage. Germany is a country at the forefront of this development and we are proud to have Vattenfall as a partner.
“We are eager to launch our energy storage solution commercially as quickly as possible.”
"
This ^^^^ is progress ! , innovation and the way forward for all of the energy matrix as it evolves and shapes our future, trimming the peak demands with storage - of many different types and shapes.
(ETA - apols for further Non-UK content)
if that works out it could well be a game changer. will be interesting to see where it goes."Swedish energy giant Vattenfall is working with compatriot company SaltX Technology to test how renewable wind and solar power can be stored in salt.
A 10 megawatt-hour pilot plant at the Reuter thermal power plant in Spandau, Berlin, was officially commissioned today.
Technology developed by SaltX will be tested for the first time on an industrial scale at the plant, Vattenfall said.
The system is based on nano-coated salt that enables a 'salt battery' to be charged several thousand times storing energy for weeks or months without losses, it added.
The tests will run until the end of the summer 2019, after which the data will be evaluated and the results presented at the end of the year.
Vattenfall Warme Berlin executive responsible for the project Markus Witt said: “In the next few months, we will collect important data to get answers to the question of whether and how this type of plant can be used in our business.
“Some questions are how large amounts of salt can be used, how quickly the storage medium reacts and how the process can be controlled.”
SaltX chief executive Harald Bauer said: “The energy sector is changing quickly, and we globally see an enormous need for energy storage. Germany is a country at the forefront of this development and we are proud to have Vattenfall as a partner.
“We are eager to launch our energy storage solution commercially as quickly as possible.”
"
This ^^^^ is progress ! , innovation and the way forward for all of the energy matrix as it evolves and shapes our future, trimming the peak demands with storage - of many different types and shapes.
(ETA - apols for further Non-UK content)
^^^
Things must be looking up since February then.....
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/02/21/wind-suffers-t...
Things must be looking up since February then.....
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/02/21/wind-suffers-t...
Bizarre (read spectacular) twisting of the report public ally available on the WindEurope website
Even that article cites :
“Overall, Europe installed 11.7 gigawatts (GW) of gross wind power capacity in 2018. While this represents a drop of more than 30 percent compared to installations in 2017, the sector still installed more capacity than any other type of power generation in the EU last year, WindEurope said.”
What is the point you are trying to make by posting the article please ?
Even that article cites :
“Overall, Europe installed 11.7 gigawatts (GW) of gross wind power capacity in 2018. While this represents a drop of more than 30 percent compared to installations in 2017, the sector still installed more capacity than any other type of power generation in the EU last year, WindEurope said.”
What is the point you are trying to make by posting the article please ?
But there is another thread or two for Climate discussions isnt't there ?
I have looked at those threads and found nothing of worth or merit that is not then dismantled by horseplay by some of the posters.
I thought this was on the Energy transition - specifically relevant to the future of the UK, however its tentacles literally reach across a greater geography such is the application of Interconnectors.
I have looked at those threads and found nothing of worth or merit that is not then dismantled by horseplay by some of the posters.
I thought this was on the Energy transition - specifically relevant to the future of the UK, however its tentacles literally reach across a greater geography such is the application of Interconnectors.
dickymint said:
^^^
Things must be looking up since February then.....
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/02/21/wind-suffers-t...
Are you going to say what is special about this ? Things must be looking up since February then.....
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/02/21/wind-suffers-t...
Just in the UK, during 2018, five offshore wind farms became fully operational, adding an additional 1 GW of new operational capacity, accounting for nearly half of the new offshore capacity built in Europe in 2018.
There were 11 offshore wind farms under construction during the year, several of which began generating and half of which became fully operational in 2018.
That does not fit with what you have implied Dicky so views appreciated..
report here : https://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/media/2950/offsho...
'EU Plans To Transfer Energy Powers From Capitals To Brussels'
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2019/04/0...
We need to get out sooner rather than later.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2019/04/0...
We need to get out sooner rather than later.
IN51GHT said:
I have not read much of this thread, but the way I see it is that the key is in energy HARVESTING & micro generation.
In the same way we harvest foodstuffs & then consume when ready (grain for example) we should be harvesting renewable energy & using it when required as renewable obviously cannot be turned on & off as readily as more conventional power stations.
On a domestic level solar roofs & power walls would IMO be appropriate.
The tricky but is we'd need to use electrity in ways that support the flexibility required, times of most people's heating, cooking and appliance usage is fairly fixed by circumstance. Probably need to store it and use when it's needed. I have seen some interesting offgrid homes with well insulated hot water tanks that'll hold heat for days and under floor water heating as the concrete floor holds heat well, so they can use solar when available to heat the water and use that as the storage instead of batteries. In the same way we harvest foodstuffs & then consume when ready (grain for example) we should be harvesting renewable energy & using it when required as renewable obviously cannot be turned on & off as readily as more conventional power stations.
On a domestic level solar roofs & power walls would IMO be appropriate.
Edited by IN51GHT on Thursday 11th April 12:09
Interesting about Germany and renewables, they have loads of pumped hydro which can be used to store energy so can take advantage, nearly 7000MW. Doesn't seem to be much interest in creating more in the UK though.
Edited by wombleh on Saturday 13th April 07:41
turbobloke said:
'EU Plans To Transfer Energy Powers From Capitals To Brussels'
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2019/04/0...
We need to get out sooner rather than later.
The most incredible thing is that it hasn't already happened. With TERRE or whatever its called, the whole energy market is going pan European, and for countries which share a land border to have 2 different energy markets is a bit meaningless. We are probably going to stay a part of TERRE if Brexit happens or not, and the more interconnectors we build the more flexible our import/export capacity becomes. Seems pointless to be turning off wind turbines here because our network cannot cope with the output, while in Poland they are burning coal. Just send our power over there. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2019/04/0...
We need to get out sooner rather than later.
wombleh said:
Interesting about Germany and renewables, they have loads of pumped hydro which can be used to store energy so can take advantage, nearly 7000MW. Doesn't seem to be much interest in creating more in the UK though.
There are plans in place for 3 or 4 new investments. Either increasing the capacity and output of existing stations (Foyers 2, Cruachen 2) or new systems entirely. I'm not sure anyone has pulled the pin in starting building yet though. Daft question.
How long does it take "power" to be sent from one country to another, e.g. as per up the thread send our wind power to Poland to replace coal generation.
Is it atomic speed of light that the power travels down the lines, if so the distances are minuscule and nominal or does it take a bit longer - say 1s / 1000km for a response from generation to grid?
How long does it take "power" to be sent from one country to another, e.g. as per up the thread send our wind power to Poland to replace coal generation.
Is it atomic speed of light that the power travels down the lines, if so the distances are minuscule and nominal or does it take a bit longer - say 1s / 1000km for a response from generation to grid?
StanleyT said:
Daft question.
How long does it take "power" to be sent from one country to another, e.g. as per up the thread send our wind power to Poland to replace coal generation.
Is it atomic speed of light that the power travels down the lines, if so the distances are minuscule and nominal or does it take a bit longer - say 1s / 1000km for a response from generation to grid?
As I understand it, it is speed of light. I am sure I read somewhere recently that huge grids (eg. USA) do have to take this into consideration and it is one of the reasons for using DC on some interconnectors.How long does it take "power" to be sent from one country to another, e.g. as per up the thread send our wind power to Poland to replace coal generation.
Is it atomic speed of light that the power travels down the lines, if so the distances are minuscule and nominal or does it take a bit longer - say 1s / 1000km for a response from generation to grid?
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Condi said:
The UK has just gone for 89 hours without coal, while German prices traded down to negative hundreds of Euros thanks to high wind and solar output, and low demands.
And if we had [b]weather like this 99% of the time[/], it would be great. One small flaw in the cunning plan.dickymint said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Condi said:
The UK has just gone for 89 hours without coal, while German prices traded down to negative hundreds of Euros thanks to high wind and solar output, and low demands.
And if we had [b]weather like this 99% of the time[/], it would be great. One small flaw in the cunning plan.But look at it another way; There wasn't 1 day this year that all the available large thermal plant was generating. Cottam have only been running to burn coal before they close, Abathaw's dispatch looked uneconomic so at a guess they are on a countdown to shutting, and Fiddlers barely ran. If it costs £30-£40m a year to keep a coal station open, who is going to pay for that when non of them are making money? Everyone complains at subsidies, but there would be questions asked if £100m a year was being paid to coal stations to sit idle.
Condi said:
Abathaw's dispatch looked uneconomic so at a guess they are on a countdown to shutting, and Fiddlers barely ran.
Any ideas what Aberthaw generated in 2018?Plaid Cymru are pushing the line that Wales is an electricity exporter and we should be gaining more from this position than we do currently.
What they neglect to mention is that Wales imports most of its energy via Pembroke Dock to power the gas power stations that make up 60% of generation in Wales. When you add that to imported coal (and possibly biomass) to Aberthaw it gets even more a stretch of the truth.
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