The Future of Power Generation in Great Britain

[PushedDover]

https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/gig...

Gigawatt-scale compressed air: World’s largest non-hydro energy-storage projects announced
The two 500MW/5GWh 'advanced' compressed-air projects in California would each be bigger than the current record holder


"Hydrostor claims that it offers the lowest installed cost per MWh for large-scale long-duration energy storage, but a spokesman for the company was not able to provide Recharge with a figure to back this up."

[Evanivitch]

PushedDover said:

https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/gig...

Gigawatt-scale compressed air: World’s largest non-hydro energy-storage projects announced
The two 500MW/5GWh 'advanced' compressed-air projects in California would each be bigger than the current record holder


"Hydrostor claims that it offers the lowest installed cost per MWh for large-scale long-duration energy storage, but a spokesman for the company was not able to provide Recharge with a figure to back this up."

Interesting use of man-made caverns as the storage vessel. I wonder what the size of that is, whether it's geographically limited, whether existing mine workings could be used.

[dickymint]

Half a billion to dump a load of rocks on top as a "remidial measure" just to stabilise the problem. Well ding Dong or should that be ding Orsted and the Danish tax payer

[PushedDover]

dickymint said:

Half a billion to dump a load of rocks on top as a "remidial measure" just to stabilise the problem. Well ding Dong or should that be ding Orsted and the Danish tax payer

Small thinking strikes again

Over the ten years of projects, I’ve done the math, it’s fk all.


The fact that Orsted say it will cost them money to fix suggests it may be an interface issue which they often take the risk of (in exchange for multi-contracting for a cheaper price and therefore lower Capex), or perhaps it has arisen from an item of free-issue materials (again an Orsted strategy to reduce their Capex costs for projects)...

Edited by PushedDover on Thursday 29th April 22:01

[dickymint]

PushedDover said:

dickymint said:

Half a billion to dump a load of rocks on top as a "remidial measure" just to stabilise the problem. Well ding Dong or should that be ding Orsted and the Danish tax payer

Small thinking strikes again

Over the ten years of projects, I’ve done the math, it’s fk all.


The fact that Orsted say it will cost them money to fix suggests it may be an interface issue which they often take the risk of (in exchange for multi-contracting for a cheaper price and therefore lower Capex), or perhaps it has arisen from an item of free-issue materials (again an Orsted strategy to reduce their Capex costs for projects)...

Edited by PushedDover on Thursday 29th April 22:01

Orsted major shareholder being the Danish government so who's paying what?

[PushedDover]

dickymint said:

PushedDover said:

dickymint said:

Half a billion to dump a load of rocks on top as a "remidial measure" just to stabilise the problem. Well ding Dong or should that be ding Orsted and the Danish tax payer

Small thinking strikes again

Over the ten years of projects, I’ve done the math, it’s fk all.


The fact that Orsted say it will cost them money to fix suggests it may be an interface issue which they often take the risk of (in exchange for multi-contracting for a cheaper price and therefore lower Capex), or perhaps it has arisen from an item of free-issue materials (again an Orsted strategy to reduce their Capex costs for projects)...

Edited by PushedDover on Thursday 29th April 22:01

Orsted major shareholder being the Danish government so who's paying what?

Major shareholder at 51%

Relevance ?

They’ve essentially self Insured the installation project’s and now there is a claim to solve - by themselves as self insured.

I’m sure you can find more foaming and frothing tho - which we all think helps
This thread tremendously.
Congrats fir the insights

[dickymint]

PushedDover said:

dickymint said:

PushedDover said:

dickymint said:

Half a billion to dump a load of rocks on top as a "remidial measure" just to stabilise the problem. Well ding Dong or should that be ding Orsted and the Danish tax payer

Small thinking strikes again

Over the ten years of projects, I’ve done the math, it’s fk all.


The fact that Orsted say it will cost them money to fix suggests it may be an interface issue which they often take the risk of (in exchange for multi-contracting for a cheaper price and therefore lower Capex), or perhaps it has arisen from an item of free-issue materials (again an Orsted strategy to reduce their Capex costs for projects)...

Edited by PushedDover on Thursday 29th April 22:01

Orsted major shareholder being the Danish government so who's paying what?

Major shareholder at 51%

Relevance ?

They’ve essentially self Insured the installation project’s and now there is a claim to solve - by themselves as self insured.

I’m sure you can find more foaming and frothing tho - which we all think helps
This thread tremendously.

Congrats fir the insights

Who's foaming and frothing?
Who's "we all"?

Insights? Calm down Paddy

[PRTVR]

Wind output still in the doldrums, since the 8th of April there has been no significant contribution to the grid from wind,
presently sat at 1.2gw
Our politicians are moving to decarbonisation at a faster rate than originally envisaged so wind is the future.



Hi pushedover, you offered to answer my questions about the new wind turbine factory on the Tees,
I am interested in the percentage in monetary terms a completed turbine will be UK produced.
Thanks

[PushedDover]

PRTVR said:

Hi pushedover, you offered to answer my questions about the new wind turbine factory on the Tees,
I am interested in the percentage in monetary terms a completed turbine will be UK produced.
Thanks

I think you misunderstood.
Turbines don’t come from a single facility or factory. I didn’t say / there isn’t a new Wind turbine factory on the Tees incoming - but a new ‘Blade Factory’ by LM Wind, (now owned by GE) they will be making the new Halliade X blades to start with (14MW turbines, 110m-ish long)
This is akin to the blade factory Siemens (now SGRE) built in Hull a few years back. There will be figures of employment and investment from that in the public domain for you.
The towers for the turbines, will be fabricated elsewhere, as will the nacelle / generation hub. (Currently Frnce for this unit design as the remnants of Alstom is actually what has become GE)
Siemens did try to make tower sections at CS wind in Campbeltown not so long ago - again in an effort to make more UK content- but the quality was poor, and pulled the venture.

Of course that ^^^^ is all the stuff average Joe sees or considers when they see a turbine.
Beyond - or below - that is the foundation units which are generically a 500Te-ish TP that Wilton on The Tees has made a fist of with OSB in the past, and then the Monopile itself. These fabrications have been dominated by SIF and SMULDERS on the continent.
Jackets are made on the Tyne and some token ones in Scotland too.
Oh and Cables. JDR in Hartlepool is sadly being over taken.

[PRTVR]

PushedDover said:

PRTVR said:

Hi pushedover, you offered to answer my questions about the new wind turbine factory on the Tees,
I am interested in the percentage in monetary terms a completed turbine will be UK produced.
Thanks

I think you misunderstood.
Turbines don’t come from a single facility or factory. I didn’t say / there isn’t a new Wind turbine factory on the Tees incoming - but a new ‘Blade Factory’ by LM Wind, (now owned by GE) they will be making the new Halliade X blades to start with (14MW turbines, 110m-ish long)
This is akin to the blade factory Siemens (now SGRE) built in Hull a few years back. There will be figures of employment and investment from that in the public domain for you.
The towers for the turbines, will be fabricated elsewhere, as will the nacelle / generation hub. (Currently Frnce for this unit design as the remnants of Alstom is actually what has become GE)
Siemens did try to make tower sections at CS wind in Campbeltown not so long ago - again in an effort to make more UK content- but the quality was poor, and pulled the venture.

Of course that ^^^^ is all the stuff average Joe sees or considers when they see a turbine.
Beyond - or below - that is the foundation units which are generically a 500Te-ish TP that Wilton on The Tees has made a fist of with OSB in the past, and then the Monopile itself. These fabrications have been dominated by SIF and SMULDERS on the continent.
Jackets are made on the Tyne and some token ones in Scotland too.
Oh and Cables. JDR in Hartlepool is sadly being over taken.

OK thanks for the information, but if we are going to destroy jobs that we have at presentlike car manufacturers and steel and the like to replace it with "green" jobs and the majority of the jobs in wind turbine are abroad, I remain skeptical about the future job prospects in renewables and at what cost to the taxpayer..

[PushedDover]

PRTVR said:

OK thanks for the information, but if we are going to destroy jobs that we have at presentlike car manufacturers and steel and the like to replace it with "green" jobs and the majority of the jobs in wind turbine are abroad, I remain skeptical about the future job prospects in renewables and at what cost to the taxpayer..

"destroy" ?

Or has the world moved on ?
As said, CS Wind was set up to make the towers (steel fabrication) and the quality was crap. The sole job was to make round cans. they were oval.

Can the UK manufacture at a competitive price, and a required quality of anything?

Why is there not the same outrage that the O&G manufacturing of the Jackets and Topsides has also gone overseas - because of cost and quality too. These jobs moved overseas BEFORE the green agenda.
See also the Shipyards that closed in the UK was also BEFORE the green agenda.


Your loathing of renewables taints your debate on jobs.

[PRTVR]

PushedDover said:

PRTVR said:

OK thanks for the information, but if we are going to destroy jobs that we have at presentlike car manufacturers and steel and the like to replace it with "green" jobs and the majority of the jobs in wind turbine are abroad, I remain skeptical about the future job prospects in renewables and at what cost to the taxpayer..

"destroy" ?

Or has the world moved on ?
As said, CS Wind was set up to make the towers (steel fabrication) and the quality was crap. The sole job was to make round cans. they were oval.

Can the UK manufacture at a competitive price, and a required quality of anything?

Why is there not the same outrage that the O&G manufacturing of the Jackets and Topsides has also gone overseas - because of cost and quality too. These jobs moved overseas BEFORE the green agenda.
See also the Shipyards that closed in the UK was also BEFORE the green agenda.


Your loathing of renewables taints your debate on jobs.

I am a realist, I see the renewables as a big risk to the UK economy, no one in the world has made them work, but we are told the UK is going to build back green, with new jobs in the green revolution, build back means that jobs will be lost before the build back happens, where are the jobs going to be , if by your own admission we will not be making anything but a few blades, that jobs will be heavily subsidised by the UK taxpayer.
I will get on board the green revolution when sensible concrete (environmentally produced of course) strategy are in place, not just vacant promises.

[PushedDover]

PRTVR said:

I am a realist, I see the renewables as a big risk to the UK economy, no one in the world has made them work, but we are told the UK is going to build back green, with new jobs in the green revolution, build back means that jobs will be lost before the build back happens, where are the jobs going to be , if by your own admission we will not be making anything but a few blades, that jobs will be heavily subsidised by the UK taxpayer.
I will get on board the green revolution when sensible concrete (environmentally produced of course) strategy are in place, not just vacant promises.

I did not say that.
You asked about the Turbine factory on the Tees. I corrected you for clarity

For info only, there are more factories coming for the other components mentioned and the point I also made, but you glossed over, is UK Plc's workforce is unable on the whole to make a decent quality (or cost) fabrication has become an issue. That is unrelated to Renewables.

An example - We have just tendered to build and subsequently awarded to build multoiple ships. We ran a competitive tender to 12 shipyards around the world including but not limited to China, Singapore, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, Spain, Poland, Norway and UK.

The two yards we pproached to bid in the UK - one failed to respond, the other was 52% more expensive than the average price of the three lead yards.
And instead of a 22month build programme, 31 months.

Untenable.

[PRTVR]

PushedDover said:

PRTVR said:

I am a realist, I see the renewables as a big risk to the UK economy, no one in the world has made them work, but we are told the UK is going to build back green, with new jobs in the green revolution, build back means that jobs will be lost before the build back happens, where are the jobs going to be , if by your own admission we will not be making anything but a few blades, that jobs will be heavily subsidised by the UK taxpayer.
I will get on board the green revolution when sensible concrete (environmentally produced of course) strategy are in place, not just vacant promises.

I did not say that.
You asked about the Turbine factory on the Tees. I corrected you for clarity

For info only, there are more factories coming for the other components mentioned and the point I also made, but you glossed over, is UK Plc's workforce is unable on the whole to make a decent quality (or cost) fabrication has become an issue. That is unrelated to Renewables.

An example - We have just tendered to build and subsequently awarded to build multoiple ships. We ran a competitive tender to 12 shipyards around the world including but not limited to China, Singapore, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, Spain, Poland, Norway and UK.

The two yards we pproached to bid in the UK - one failed to respond, the other was 52% more expensive than the average price of the three lead yards.
And instead of a 22month build programme, 31 months.

Untenable.

So do you agree the number of new green jobs are going be small because the UK cannot deliver.

[PushedDover]

PRTVR said:

So do you agree the number of new green jobs are going be small because the UK cannot deliver.

Once Again.
That is not what I said.


That is three posts today by you and three times you have either misunderstood, misinterpreted, or intentionally misled.

[anonymous-user]

PRTVR said:

I am a realist,

Ok then "realist" if we don't back renewables, what should we back? Come on, put your money where you mouth is?

It strikes me that your realism is very similar to the miners and steelworkers in the 1980's who comepletely failed to respond to the competition from abroad and the lack of demand for what they were mining, and, well, not many of them left today are there?

[robinessex]

Max_Torque said:

PRTVR said:

I am a realist,

Ok then "realist" if we don't back renewables, what should we back? Come on, put your money where you mouth is?

It strikes me that your realism is very similar to the miners and steelworkers in the 1980's who comepletely failed to respond to the competition from abroad and the lack of demand for what they were mining, and, well, not many of them left today are there?

That was as much political by Maggie as economics. Germany has considerable reserves of lignite, making it one of the country’s most important indigenous sources of energy. There are long-term prospects to mine about 4 billion tonnes of lignite reserves at existing and approved surface mines.

[PRTVR]

Max_Torque said:

PRTVR said:

I am a realist,

Ok then "realist" if we don't back renewables, what should we back? Come on, put your money where you mouth is?

It strikes me that your realism is very similar to the miners and steelworkers in the 1980's who comepletely failed to respond to the competition from abroad and the lack of demand for what they were mining, and, well, not many of them left today are there?

Nuclear power is the only answer, I really like the idea of the small modular reactors,
we have witnessed the shortcomings of wind and solar not being reliable, wood fired power stations are a joke and are going to become more expensive when shipping gets hit for a green tax, unless something new comes on the market our only option is nuclear.

[PushedDover]

PRTVR said:

Max_Torque said:

PRTVR said:

I am a realist,

Ok then "realist" if we don't back renewables, what should we back? Come on, put your money where you mouth is?

It strikes me that your realism is very similar to the miners and steelworkers in the 1980's who comepletely failed to respond to the competition from abroad and the lack of demand for what they were mining, and, well, not many of them left today are there?

Nuclear power is the only answer, I really like the idea of the small modular reactors,
we have witnessed the shortcomings of wind and solar not being reliable, wood fired power stations are a joke and are going to become more expensive when shipping gets hit for a green tax, unless something new comes on the market our only option is nuclear.

looking forward to this reality, that is affordable and deliverable,


Oh. Wait.

[PRTVR]

PushedDover said:

PRTVR said:

Max_Torque said:

PRTVR said:

I am a realist,

Ok then "realist" if we don't back renewables, what should we back? Come on, put your money where you mouth is?

It strikes me that your realism is very similar to the miners and steelworkers in the 1980's who comepletely failed to respond to the competition from abroad and the lack of demand for what they were mining, and, well, not many of them left today are there?

Nuclear power is the only answer, I really like the idea of the small modular reactors,
we have witnessed the shortcomings of wind and solar not being reliable, wood fired power stations are a joke and are going to become more expensive when shipping gets hit for a green tax, unless something new comes on the market our only option is nuclear.

looking forward to this reality, that is affordable and deliverable,


Oh. Wait.

What other option do we have that is carbon free ?
Wind is 0.8 gw at the moment, do we keep building things that are intermittent and require back up?