Explosions reported in Manchester?
Discussion
Lance Catamaran said:
Meanwhile, in the world of feminists
She's possibly right. We value the lives of women and girls above those of men and boys. Murdering them has a greater impact- hence why Boko Haram's kidnapping of girls was more newsworthy than their slaughtering of boys. Whether that factored into the scumbag's calculations or whether he just picked a sold out concert, who knows. DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
If you are referring to the IRA bombing of Manchester, it didn't take decades to get over, we were back to normal business the next day, we just had a bit of building to do and disruption to business to deal with.This event is different because of the nature of the atrocity, it will sadly affect a lot of young people, but I have faith in the people of Manchester to work together to get through this and manage the required perspective. It's depressing to know kids like in my own family will now be thinking about this event when they plan to visit a concert or event, but they will get through it with the good sensible guidance the majority of households in the UK provide to their children.
Trabi601 said:
They've discovered an edge in the election campaign and a way to implement ever more authoritarian government.
Deploying troops on the streets, spying on internet use and now proposing to implement controls on what we can and can't view and / or post on the 'net.
This isn't the place for such debate, really - but May is going to use this for her own authoritarian gain, and the public are going to lap it up.
May doesn't set the threat level.Deploying troops on the streets, spying on internet use and now proposing to implement controls on what we can and can't view and / or post on the 'net.
This isn't the place for such debate, really - but May is going to use this for her own authoritarian gain, and the public are going to lap it up.
mickytruelove said:
i try my hardest not to be one of the ranting racist people i see on facebook but i do belive there is a deep problem with islam and living in a western country.
Half of the paramedics helping last night were probably muslim and majority do not want to go around killing people but the teachings of islam say being homosexual should be punished hence the 2 gay guys being publicly whipped in indonesia today.
The one thing i think we need to change is religious schools, How are different groups of people meant to intergrate when they are seperated as children and one learns being homosexual is bad and one group get told they can identify as a fluid gender swapping apache attack helicopter and thats fine.
I don't think you can be racist due to the fact you want to rant about Islam.Half of the paramedics helping last night were probably muslim and majority do not want to go around killing people but the teachings of islam say being homosexual should be punished hence the 2 gay guys being publicly whipped in indonesia today.
The one thing i think we need to change is religious schools, How are different groups of people meant to intergrate when they are seperated as children and one learns being homosexual is bad and one group get told they can identify as a fluid gender swapping apache attack helicopter and thats fine.
It's a faith, not a race!
Dislike Islam and rant all you like
Zod said:
stichill99 said:
Everybody should read Douglas Murray's new book on the Islamification of the UK. 23 of 32 London districts the majority of the population are muslim. If the book doesn't worry you it should!
Utter f
king bullst.Raygun said:
What's the point asking people "What was he like?" We all know what he was like when he murdered them innocent people last night, an evil deranged bd.
Indeed he WAS.d.Been listening to the radio all day whilst on the road, and amazed at how many people genuinely phoned in on a mix of shows and stations, all showing their despair at how this was a more 'disgusting' attack than others because of the children/soft target element.
The way that some came across left me scratching my head, it was as though they thought the suicide bomber hadn't thought it through properly, perhaps he had forgot his morals.
I was left scratching my head. Do these people really think that the scum behind this attack and those like him actually think about this during their planning mode? They are only interested in maximum damage and exposure, last night they succeeded.
They have had to adapt, and it appears occasionally they are quite good at it.
I know nothing, but IMO think there is a huge difference between the 'lone wolf' Westminster attack a few weeks back, and the attack at the M.E.N last night.
frankenstein12 said:
Justayellowbadge said:
frankenstein12 said:
Tom Logan said:
Justayellowbadge said:
Scottish bloke made despicable comments, deserves to be shown for what he is.
Identifying the sister of the scumbag that blew himself up and linking her FB page very different - is there a suggestion she was in any way involved? Exposing her is not cool, IMO.
Fair enough.Identifying the sister of the scumbag that blew himself up and linking her FB page very different - is there a suggestion she was in any way involved? Exposing her is not cool, IMO.
I would bet money his sister and their family they are as res knew he held extremist views. I don't know if they made the authorities aware but if not imho they are as responsible as he is for the deaths and injuries.
Some utter vulva nail bombed children because he made assumptions about 'us'.
You advocate potential suffering for someone who may be entirely unconnected for pretty much the same reasons.
Her life has just altered, terribly and irredeemably.
I'd rather not add to that based on what a bigoted moron would bet on.
otolith said:
Lance Catamaran said:
Meanwhile, in the world of feminists
She's possibly right. We value the lives of women and girls above those of men and boys. Murdering them has a greater impact- hence why Boko Haram's kidnapping of girls was more newsworthy than their slaughtering of boys. Whether that factored into the scumbag's calculations or whether he just picked a sold out concert, who knows. Zod said:
stichill99 said:
Everybody should read Douglas Murray's new book on the Islamification of the UK. 23 of 32 London districts the majority of the population are muslim. If the book doesn't worry you it should!
Utter fking bullst.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_London
Disastrous said:
We've had planes brought down. I'm not sure the reason we've not had any crash into buildings is because they lock the doors now.
From my understanding of what happened, the 9/11 terrorists had actually trained as pilots, as flying into a building is actually pretty hard. More time screening students at pilot school would be more effective than a locked door, I'd wager.
As always, the knee-jerk reaction is to try and prevent the act itself but it's usually/always far more effective to try and stop these things several steps back, at source. To refer to my earlier example, using education to try and teach young men that a drunk woman can't give consent is more effective than trying to catch rapists. Using Intel to prevent terror attacks at the planning stage is more effective than trying to ban bags at venues.
Learning to fly is easy, I flew solo at age 16, it is literally child's play. I am pretty confident I could fly any modern jet if I really had to, to a skill level that could do harm, getting it down safely is a different matter entirely. The lock door policy is extremely sensible. From my understanding of what happened, the 9/11 terrorists had actually trained as pilots, as flying into a building is actually pretty hard. More time screening students at pilot school would be more effective than a locked door, I'd wager.
As always, the knee-jerk reaction is to try and prevent the act itself but it's usually/always far more effective to try and stop these things several steps back, at source. To refer to my earlier example, using education to try and teach young men that a drunk woman can't give consent is more effective than trying to catch rapists. Using Intel to prevent terror attacks at the planning stage is more effective than trying to ban bags at venues.
In the USA they do now have procedures in place to follow with regards to flight training student vetting
Difficulty is muslims generally are not the problem. I know many lovely lovely followers of allah. Problem is a minority within Islam. Personally Islam is the problem as that is the vehicle by which individuals are justifying their deeds and quite frankly it's in the Koran. I've got one been reading it- the justification is there for it no matter how much is said otherwise. It's not a religion of peace. Mohammed was an extremely violent man- so why should it surprise us if a minority of his followers are too.
And some practice that literally others a more peaceful path. I don't know what you can do with that- how to approach it all because we have to protect the many many many peaceful lovely Muslims in our country but I would like someone in authority to acknowledge the obvious that yes it is an Islamic problem and yes the Koran teaches a way of life by which some of these evil men and women follow. At least it might be a start, we seem almost scared to Star the obvious through fear of being branded a racist etc etc.
Either way whatever our position we must not exploit this horrible thing for political gain or scoring points- this needs to be about justice and prevention- to accept these things happen is not okay and not the world I want my children to grow up in.
Thanks.
And some practice that literally others a more peaceful path. I don't know what you can do with that- how to approach it all because we have to protect the many many many peaceful lovely Muslims in our country but I would like someone in authority to acknowledge the obvious that yes it is an Islamic problem and yes the Koran teaches a way of life by which some of these evil men and women follow. At least it might be a start, we seem almost scared to Star the obvious through fear of being branded a racist etc etc.
Either way whatever our position we must not exploit this horrible thing for political gain or scoring points- this needs to be about justice and prevention- to accept these things happen is not okay and not the world I want my children to grow up in.
Thanks.
otolith said:
She's possibly right. We value the lives of women and girls above those of men and boys. Murdering them has a greater impact- hence why Boko Haram's kidnapping of girls was more newsworthy than their slaughtering of boys. Whether that factored into the scumbag's calculations or whether he just picked a sold out concert, who knows.
Funny you mention Boko Haram, there was a thing on the other morning about some of those girls being released and that some of them chose to stay to marry their captors. Mental!AreOut said:
Mr Happy said:
How would that work in practice? Just the mere utterance of the words 'you're banned from doing that' doesn't stop things from happening.
true it doesn't, however as the time goes by they'll choose weaker targets, all criminals being them thieves, terrorists whatever choose weaker targets first, it's in their naturewhy do you think the idiot didn't attack military base but a concert full of kids?!
My point was, your original post seemed to insinuate that by banning preaching, you somehow fix the problem. That's not what would happen, what would happen is that extremism would be driven even further underground than it currently is, making the security services job that much harder. You can't liken combating an extremist ideology to something as trivial as smoking in a public place.
The whole point of terror attacks is to make people feel insecure in their own surroundings, they'll continue to attempt attacks against soft targets such as concerts full of kids and shopping centres - that's pretty much a given. All we can hope for is public vigilance, and the security services doing what is necessary to stop these nutjobs carrying out their attacks before they even wake up in the mornings.
Simply banning stuff will have zero effect, the issue is far more nuanced than the good, old fashioned, British "Ban EVERYTHING!" mindset.
B.J.W said:
768 said:
Puggit said:
chilistrucker said:
UK terror threat level raised to critical.
I can't remember that happening before. Government say army might be deployed. French army has been deployed for at least a decade...
Obvious target is obvious.
Had my tent raided a few times over the years.
Security is a joke.
Despite being very much a minority......IIRC In France 40% of all prisoners under 30 are Muslim
Islam is an issue in Western Society.
Can anyone name in the last 30 years the last person to blow themselves and other innocent people up in Europe that were:
a/ Hindu
b/ Sikh
c/ Bhuddist
d/ Amish
e/ Jehovah's Witness
f/ The Wee Free Kirk Of Scotland
g/ Jedi
h/ Ahmadiyya Community ( Muslim's have said that they cannot be called Muslims
i/ Jews
j/ Plymouth Brethren
k/ Sky Pixie What Sky Pixie????
We can predict with remarkable accuracy that the next atrocity will be committed by someone who believes the moon was split in two.
It is almost never any of the other categories.
Oakey said:
otolith said:
She's possibly right. We value the lives of women and girls above those of men and boys. Murdering them has a greater impact- hence why Boko Haram's kidnapping of girls was more newsworthy than their slaughtering of boys. Whether that factored into the scumbag's calculations or whether he just picked a sold out concert, who knows.
Funny you mention Boko Haram, there was a thing on the other morning about some of those girls being released and that some of them chose to stay to marry their captors. Mental!Yipper said:
Zod said:
stichill99 said:
Everybody should read Douglas Murray's new book on the Islamification of the UK. 23 of 32 London districts the majority of the population are muslim. If the book doesn't worry you it should!
Utter fking bullst.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_London
Trabi601 said:
They've discovered an edge in the election campaign and a way to implement ever more authoritarian government.
Deploying troops on the streets, spying on internet use and now proposing to implement controls on what we can and can't view and / or post on the 'net.
This isn't the place for such debate, really - but May is going to use this for her own authoritarian gain, and the public are going to lap it up.
Well done Mr T F Hat, you are one level up from those cretins on Twitter saying that it's a false flag. Deploying troops on the streets, spying on internet use and now proposing to implement controls on what we can and can't view and / or post on the 'net.
This isn't the place for such debate, really - but May is going to use this for her own authoritarian gain, and the public are going to lap it up.
What should TM do if not a display of reassurance to the public to make us feel safer? Nothing?
Troubleatmill said:
It is why I decided to stop going.
Obvious target is obvious.
Had my tent raided a few times over the years.
Security is a joke.
Despite being very much a minority......IIRC In France 40% of all prisoners under 30 are Muslim
Islam is an issue in Western Society.
Can anyone name in the last 30 years the last person to blow themselves and other innocent people up in Europe that were:
a/ Hindu
b/ Sikh
c/ Bhuddist
d/ Amish
e/ Jehovah's Witness
f/ The Wee Free Kirk Of Scotland
g/ Jedi
h/ Ahmadiyya Community ( Muslim's have said that they cannot be called Muslims
i/ Jews
j/ Plymouth Brethren
k/ Sky Pixie What Sky Pixie????
We can predict with remarkable accuracy that the next atrocity will be committed by someone who believes the moon was split in two.
It is almost never any of the other categories.
No Catholics in there? Whilst they generally used to give a warning to cause material and not human damage... the only other difference is that they were sensible enough not to blow themselves up in the process.Obvious target is obvious.
Had my tent raided a few times over the years.
Security is a joke.
Despite being very much a minority......IIRC In France 40% of all prisoners under 30 are Muslim
Islam is an issue in Western Society.
Can anyone name in the last 30 years the last person to blow themselves and other innocent people up in Europe that were:
a/ Hindu
b/ Sikh
c/ Bhuddist
d/ Amish
e/ Jehovah's Witness
f/ The Wee Free Kirk Of Scotland
g/ Jedi
h/ Ahmadiyya Community ( Muslim's have said that they cannot be called Muslims
i/ Jews
j/ Plymouth Brethren
k/ Sky Pixie What Sky Pixie????
We can predict with remarkable accuracy that the next atrocity will be committed by someone who believes the moon was split in two.
It is almost never any of the other categories.
This isn't a Muslim issue. It's an issue that IS, who are a particularly extreme and minority form of Islam, are an easy cause for nutters to drift towards. If IS weren't there, it would be another group who would sympathise and encourage. Nutters will always find a cause - the internet has made it easier in recent years.
jsf said:
Disastrous said:
We've had planes brought down. I'm not sure the reason we've not had any crash into buildings is because they lock the doors now.
From my understanding of what happened, the 9/11 terrorists had actually trained as pilots, as flying into a building is actually pretty hard. More time screening students at pilot school would be more effective than a locked door, I'd wager.
As always, the knee-jerk reaction is to try and prevent the act itself but it's usually/always far more effective to try and stop these things several steps back, at source. To refer to my earlier example, using education to try and teach young men that a drunk woman can't give consent is more effective than trying to catch rapists. Using Intel to prevent terror attacks at the planning stage is more effective than trying to ban bags at venues.
Learning to fly is easy, I flew solo at age 16, it is literally child's play. I am pretty confident I could fly any modern jet if I really had to, to a skill level that could do harm, getting it down safely is a different matter entirely. The lock door policy is extremely sensible. From my understanding of what happened, the 9/11 terrorists had actually trained as pilots, as flying into a building is actually pretty hard. More time screening students at pilot school would be more effective than a locked door, I'd wager.
As always, the knee-jerk reaction is to try and prevent the act itself but it's usually/always far more effective to try and stop these things several steps back, at source. To refer to my earlier example, using education to try and teach young men that a drunk woman can't give consent is more effective than trying to catch rapists. Using Intel to prevent terror attacks at the planning stage is more effective than trying to ban bags at venues.
In the USA they do now have procedures in place to follow with regards to flight training student vetting
1). I think a modern passenger aircraft is a bit more complex than the thing I had a shot in, to the point where I'm not sure I'd even know how to disengage the autopilot without a manual. Certainly the 9/11 attackers seemed to need training.
2). I'm sure crashing one is easy once you have control. Crashing two into a building? Doubt it, without training.
3). I agree a lock door policy is sensible but it doesn't stop people targeting planes in other ways. I was specifically saying that stuff like that is less effective than preventing it earlier in the system.
4). As you say, they now vet pilots in the US, which I suspect is a much better way to prevent another 9/11.
I think we basically agree!
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