Explosions reported in Manchester?
Discussion
otolith said:
Lance Catamaran said:
Meanwhile, in the world of feminists
She's possibly right. We value the lives of women and girls above those of men and boys. Murdering them has a greater impact- hence why Boko Haram's kidnapping of girls was more newsworthy than their slaughtering of boys. Whether that factored into the scumbag's calculations or whether he just picked a sold out concert, who knows. Trabi601 said:
No Catholics in there? Whilst they generally used to give a warning to cause material and not human damage... the only other difference is that they were sensible enough not to blow themselves up in the process.
This isn't a Muslim issue. It's an issue that IS, who are a particularly extreme and minority form of Islam, are an easy cause for nutters to drift towards. If IS weren't there, it would be another group who would sympathise and encourage. Nutters will always find a cause - the internet has made it easier in recent years.
You're right it's not a Muslim issue. But it is an Islam issue... This isn't a Muslim issue. It's an issue that IS, who are a particularly extreme and minority form of Islam, are an easy cause for nutters to drift towards. If IS weren't there, it would be another group who would sympathise and encourage. Nutters will always find a cause - the internet has made it easier in recent years.
have you read the Koran?
Disastrous said:
jsf said:
Disastrous said:
We've had planes brought down. I'm not sure the reason we've not had any crash into buildings is because they lock the doors now.
From my understanding of what happened, the 9/11 terrorists had actually trained as pilots, as flying into a building is actually pretty hard. More time screening students at pilot school would be more effective than a locked door, I'd wager.
As always, the knee-jerk reaction is to try and prevent the act itself but it's usually/always far more effective to try and stop these things several steps back, at source. To refer to my earlier example, using education to try and teach young men that a drunk woman can't give consent is more effective than trying to catch rapists. Using Intel to prevent terror attacks at the planning stage is more effective than trying to ban bags at venues.
Learning to fly is easy, I flew solo at age 16, it is literally child's play. I am pretty confident I could fly any modern jet if I really had to, to a skill level that could do harm, getting it down safely is a different matter entirely. The lock door policy is extremely sensible. From my understanding of what happened, the 9/11 terrorists had actually trained as pilots, as flying into a building is actually pretty hard. More time screening students at pilot school would be more effective than a locked door, I'd wager.
As always, the knee-jerk reaction is to try and prevent the act itself but it's usually/always far more effective to try and stop these things several steps back, at source. To refer to my earlier example, using education to try and teach young men that a drunk woman can't give consent is more effective than trying to catch rapists. Using Intel to prevent terror attacks at the planning stage is more effective than trying to ban bags at venues.
In the USA they do now have procedures in place to follow with regards to flight training student vetting
1). I think a modern passenger aircraft is a bit more complex than the thing I had a shot in, to the point where I'm not sure I'd even know how to disengage the autopilot without a manual. Certainly the 9/11 attackers seemed to need training.
2). I'm sure crashing one is easy once you have control. Crashing two into a building? Doubt it, without training.
3). I agree a lock door policy is sensible but it doesn't stop people targeting planes in other ways. I was specifically saying that stuff like that is less effective than preventing it earlier in the system.
4). As you say, they now vet pilots in the US, which I suspect is a much better way to prevent another 9/11.
I think we basically agree!
It wouldn't surprise me if there are now systems in place on modern aircraft the public are not aware of that lock out the control systems to those not with prior clearance. But anyway, this is a bit OT for this thread.
Mopey said:
You're right it's not a Muslim issue. But it is an Islam issue...
have you read the Koran?
Muslims = Followers of Islam. I'm not really sure what you're getting at there.have you read the Koran?
But no, I haven't read the Koran - as with most religious texts, interpretation and translation are contentious.
(I know you're now going to tell me that you have read the Koran - it's really surprising how many members of EDL / Britain First and many other groups who have extreme views on the religion have 'read the Koran' - the reality is they've read what their organisation wants them to take from it)
Troubleatmill said:
Islam is an issue in Western Society.
Can anyone name in the last 30 years the last person to blow themselves and other innocent people up in Europe that were:
a/ Hindu
b/ Sikh
c/ Bhuddist
d/ Amish
e/ Jehovah's Witness
f/ The Wee Free Kirk Of Scotland
g/ Jedi
h/ Ahmadiyya Community ( Muslim's have said that they cannot be called Muslims
i/ Jews
j/ Plymouth Brethren
k/ Sky Pixie What Sky Pixie????
We can predict with remarkable accuracy that the next atrocity will be committed by someone who believes the moon was split in two.
It is almost never any of the other categories.
+1Can anyone name in the last 30 years the last person to blow themselves and other innocent people up in Europe that were:
a/ Hindu
b/ Sikh
c/ Bhuddist
d/ Amish
e/ Jehovah's Witness
f/ The Wee Free Kirk Of Scotland
g/ Jedi
h/ Ahmadiyya Community ( Muslim's have said that they cannot be called Muslims
i/ Jews
j/ Plymouth Brethren
k/ Sky Pixie What Sky Pixie????
We can predict with remarkable accuracy that the next atrocity will be committed by someone who believes the moon was split in two.
It is almost never any of the other categories.
Totally agree.
skeggysteve said:
rscott said:
You seriously believe all Muslims want to eliminate all non-Muslims from the entire planet?
I can't go into all the details as it happened whilst I was at work but:I meet a Muslim last year, he wouldn't let me into his house because, in his words, 'I was an infidel'.
I asked him if he thought of himself as British - 'I was born here'.
He told me that as a Muslim he wanted to convert all British to Islam, it was his duty, the Quran told him to do it.
Outwardly he looked normal but his words and actions were not normal.
For reference I'm white and British born and breed.
Do you believe the bloke you spoke to is an extremist who will use terror tactics to try and convert you?
If not, what's your point?
What I mean is islam is the vehicle. Not all Muslims follow the Koran in the same way but the holy book teaches things that followers of Isis are doing. Makes sense really for them to do that if they genuinely believe they are pleading allah.
Yes I do actually own one, though I resent being compared with the EDL etc. I got one more for my own interest.
I only asked as I think it should help us be more informed it wasn't a dig or a look how good I am post.
Yes I do actually own one, though I resent being compared with the EDL etc. I got one more for my own interest.
I only asked as I think it should help us be more informed it wasn't a dig or a look how good I am post.
If we take the words Muslim or Islam out of the situation and find we have a group of people who want to kill as many of us as possible whilst killing themselves and the authorities had information about them and their intentions would there be more arrests?. Watching some of the US News channels it would appear they know as much as we do about them
Lance Catamaran said:
Valuing the lives of women and girls more is the exact opposite of sexism though (and whilst you may be correctly thinking it actually is, because it's against men it might as well not exist to these people). It also ignores the fact that men have been killed and injured in this attack . This is the same woman who wants to run for congress but thinks giant corporations will build bases on the moon and use moon rocks as weapons of mass destruction though.
Oh, I know she's not thought it through to that extent, but it certainly is sexism and to their credit there are feminists who point it out. They're generally of the opinion that it can be fixed through trickle down equality by fixing the areas where women are disadvantaged and point to it as a reason for men to support their cause, but they do acknowledge it.Probably something for a different topic though.
The Spruce goose said:
Oakey said:
Funny you mention Boko Haram, there was a thing on the other morning about some of those girls being released and that some of them chose to stay to marry their captors. Mental!
that could be explained away by Stockholm syndrome. Katie Hopkins seemed to crossed the line, pretty low.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/23/ma...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/23/ma...
The Spruce goose said:
Katie Hopkins seemed to crossed the line, pretty low.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/23/ma...
what we do not need is so called Celebs spouting shttps://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/23/ma...
te. jsf said:
Disastrous said:
jsf said:
Disastrous said:
It wouldn't surprise me if there are now systems in place on modern aircraft the public are not aware of that lock out the control systems to those not with prior clearance. But anyway, this is a bit OT for this thread.
Locked door w/manual override and bullet proof bulkheads separating the cabin, plus cameras too.
Relatively easy to fly at altitude, a lot of assistance throughout the control interface(s).
Edited by Trexthedinosaur on Tuesday 23 May 23:26
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