Explosions reported in Manchester?
Discussion
Cobnapint said:
This is true. It's just a matter of time before they trip.
The problem is this - our own laws, our courts and general high moral standards prevent us from doing much about it until it's too late.
Exactly.The problem is this - our own laws, our courts and general high moral standards prevent us from doing much about it until it's too late.
We could easily make some of these people 'disappear' in the middle of the night, never to be seen again......just as has happened in many other 'hard line' countries in the world over the decades past.....
But the Guardian readers would have a field day with that, and no UK politician will ever sign off such action...no matter how bad it gets.
Its why we will never win this.
Nardiola said:
I heard a report on BBC this morning, something stating 'This man was a terrorist, not a Muslim'. Apparently the two are now mutually exclusive.
I can see what he meant. But the problem is that everyone is so afraid of being accused of being accused of implying that most Muslims are terrorists that they are afraid to acknowledge that currently nearly all terrorists are Muslims and have nothing else in common.jakesmith said:
Oh dear. How about no? Perceived social injustice has been identified as a prime recruitment aid to ... terrorism. We live in a civilised society, that is what they seek to destroy. We aren't going to get anywhere by stooping to their level.
That's not true. To defend civilisation, you sometimes need to behave in an uncivilised way. For example, you send men out to kill other men, something generally considered abhorent. Letting your citizens be killed and doing nothing about it isn't civilised either.The suggestions you replied to might not be the answer, but we should consider all options as none are particularly pleasant. Lets find the least unpleasant one which stops innocent people being blown up.
Cobnapint said:
MaxSo said:
Cobnapint said:
This is true. It's just a matter of time before they trip.
The problem is this - our own laws, our courts and general high moral standards prevent us from doing much about it until it's too late.
Surely, seeing as nearly ALL the attackers in the ever growing list now come with 'already known to security services' on their CV, we have reached the stage where everybody on that list MUST now be regarded as a serious threat to our society and should be removed.
Would that be the opposite of innocent until proven guilty? The problem is this - our own laws, our courts and general high moral standards prevent us from doing much about it until it's too late.
Surely, seeing as nearly ALL the attackers in the ever growing list now come with 'already known to security services' on their CV, we have reached the stage where everybody on that list MUST now be regarded as a serious threat to our society and should be removed.
ferrisbueller said:
Burwood said:
ferrisbueller said:
plasticpig said:
ferrisbueller said:
Why does the house of Saud need 110 bn dollars of arms?
Because of the ongoing conflict with Iran. Currently it's a bit like the cold war with proxy wars in various trouble spots like Yemen and Syria. And again, based on ideological differences.
You would have hoped mankind would have evolved beyond this point by now.
Can't help feeling if the future is bright it will be accompanied by a strong wind and a mushroom cloud.
Ideology appears to be nonnegotiable.
Jinx said:
You have a point but probably not in the way you think you do. The problem was not poking the hornets nest but the destruction of the controlling powers in the region (Saddam in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan) and leaving a weakened pro-west power in it's place. This lead to a power vacuum in the area. With the destabilization in Libya and Egypt the ill-advised support of rebel groups in Syria and the current support of both sides in the Yemen there is ample opportunity for the more extreme groups to get more than a toe hold.
If Assad is removed I can only see things getting worse as there is no rebel group strong enough by itself to unify Syria. It seems western powers need to learn the lesson again that the enemy of your enemy is not your friend.
Could not agree more, it is an omnishambles that we are now having to suffer the consequences of. If Assad is removed I can only see things getting worse as there is no rebel group strong enough by itself to unify Syria. It seems western powers need to learn the lesson again that the enemy of your enemy is not your friend.
Also, I've always said if you orphan one child with a stray bomb or drone strike you have a potential suicide bomber in the making or worse, so lunatic like Bin Laden in the making.
This is a good read to put things in perspective:
http://stevenpinker.com/files/pinker/files/has_the...
"If you base your beliefs about the state of the world on what you read in the news, your beliefs will be incorrect. This is not because of a conspiracy among journalists to hide or distort the truth. It’s because of an interaction between the nature of news—it’s about things that happen, particularly bad things—and the nature of human cognition."
http://stevenpinker.com/files/pinker/files/has_the...
"If you base your beliefs about the state of the world on what you read in the news, your beliefs will be incorrect. This is not because of a conspiracy among journalists to hide or distort the truth. It’s because of an interaction between the nature of news—it’s about things that happen, particularly bad things—and the nature of human cognition."
Trabi601 said:
This isn't a Muslim issue. It's an issue that IS, who are a particularly extreme and minority form of Islam, are an easy cause for nutters to drift towards. If IS weren't there, it would be another group who would sympathise and encourage. Nutters will always find a cause - the internet has made it easier in recent years.
Of course it's a Muslim issue, ISIS are following the Kuran to the letter.Like you say, if IS weren't there it would be another group - yes it would - another Islamic group !
The book gives them permission to do this. It is written. They read it. They follow it through.
The end game for Islam is a true global caliphate. How it is carried out out, either by the drip drip of Mosque building, community enlargement, accelerated birth rates or military conflict - that is the goal.
-Pete- said:
TLandCruiser said:
-Pete- said:
I wonder if Tony Blair and George Bush Jr feel in any way 'uneasy' about decisions they made in the past?
What, after 9/11?http://www.alternet.org/story/49864/how_george_h.w...
Daily Mail it may be, but it makes a valid point. However, what was there that was immoral about the passengers on the tube and bus on 7 July 2005?
Cobnapint said:
Trabi601 said:
This isn't a Muslim issue. It's an issue that IS, who are a particularly extreme and minority form of Islam, are an easy cause for nutters to drift towards. If IS weren't there, it would be another group who would sympathise and encourage. Nutters will always find a cause - the internet has made it easier in recent years.
Of course it's a Muslim issue, ISIS are following the Kuran to the letter.Like you say, if IS weren't there it would be another group - yes it would - another Islamic group !
The book gives them permission to do this. It is written. They read it. They follow it through.
The end game for Islam is a true global caliphate. How it is carried out out, either by the drip drip of Mosque building, community enlargement, accelerated birth rates or military conflict - that is the goal.
JagLover said:
chrispmartha said:
skyrover said:
chrispmartha said:
Why do people like to always paint this as a left right issue, I'm probably what you would describe as a 'lefty' (especially by PH standards) but I despise religion. Tarring everyone woth the sam brush won't help this situation
Simply going off the guardian comments section.A left wing newspaper, typically read and endorsed by the left
It is not about the old left right split on economic matters just a Metropolitan elite trying to impose their agenda on the rest of the country. As to why they love Islam so much despite Fundamentalist Islam opposing so much of their agenda, well their self loathing for their own civilization trumps all I'm afraid.
V88Dicky said:
shed driver said:
The latest casualty Olivia Campbell is at the same school as my youngest son, Adam Lawler they young man injured was at his primary school and now at the same high school. It's just now beginning to sink home.
SD.
I feel you're pain. The young couple from South Shields are friends of the family, still unaccounted for...SD.
Nardiola said:
I heard a report on BBC this morning, someone stating 'This man was a terrorist, not a Muslim'. Apparently the two are now mutually exclusive.
Watched that as well. It's a common theme. I can understand their reasoning for doing it, but it's so stupid. Of course they're Muslims, they do these horrific things because of their interpretation of the religion.We need to leave religion behind if we're going to progress as a species!
Cobnapint said:
Of course it's a Muslim issue, ISIS are following the Kuran to the letter.
Like you say, if IS weren't there it would be another group - yes it would - another Islamic group !
The book gives them permission to do this. It is written. They read it. They follow it through.
The end game for Islam is a true global caliphate. How it is carried out out, either by the drip drip of Mosque building, community enlargement, accelerated birth rates or military conflict - that is the goal.
If that were true then suicide bombings would have been used consistently by muslims throughout history.Like you say, if IS weren't there it would be another group - yes it would - another Islamic group !
The book gives them permission to do this. It is written. They read it. They follow it through.
The end game for Islam is a true global caliphate. How it is carried out out, either by the drip drip of Mosque building, community enlargement, accelerated birth rates or military conflict - that is the goal.
As far as I know it's a recent thing that started in the 70s(?).
And if the Koran is so well defined, why are there so many different versions of Islam?
There's no point simply saying this happens because it's all in the big book. There are a million ways of interpreting the written word. That's why legal documents are so complex.
MarshPhantom said:
Is this what used to be the MEN Arena? Saw the Happy Mondays there if so.
What an absolute tragedy this is.
Yes. It's had the following names.What an absolute tragedy this is.
NYNEX Arena (1995–98)
Manchester Evening News Arena (1998–2011)
Manchester Arena (2011-13; 2015-present)
Phones 4u Arena (2013–15)
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