Explosions reported in Manchester?
Discussion
Countdown said:
BigLion said:
I fundamentally see no positive in Islam (or the close cultural customs) in any way, shape or form - so why would I want to retain it?
Could you not argue the same about sikihism (or indeed any religion)?Alpinestars said:
BigLion said:
You just want to get into an argument around the legal technicalities of how something like that could work, to then ridicule the idea through ridiculous examples, before telling your mum how you won an argument on the Internet?
But if I could using subjective means I would and I would do so on the things that annoy me - no burkas, no more mosques, no preachers allowed in the city centre, no stupid men dresses with shoes, no sharia law, no discussion of Islam at schools - I would also stop all immigration and marriages from the ME into the UK etc.
Alas we live in a democracy and legal technicalities, coupled with hand wringing liberals would make that an impossibility (for now).
I fundamentally see no positive in Islam (or the close cultural customs) in any way, shape or form - so why would I want to retain it?
I would stop all immigrants coming over to the UK and stop faith marriages. I'd insist on anyone who believes in a God of any kind to only be able to marry someone who doesn't believe in a God so that over time all religion is diluted/eliminated. Would you go with me on that one? But if I could using subjective means I would and I would do so on the things that annoy me - no burkas, no more mosques, no preachers allowed in the city centre, no stupid men dresses with shoes, no sharia law, no discussion of Islam at schools - I would also stop all immigration and marriages from the ME into the UK etc.
Alas we live in a democracy and legal technicalities, coupled with hand wringing liberals would make that an impossibility (for now).
I fundamentally see no positive in Islam (or the close cultural customs) in any way, shape or form - so why would I want to retain it?
BigLion said:
You do whatever you want, my focus is the management of the threat we face today.
Go for it. I'd ban all religious or cultural garb as well. To believe that you're going to be reincarnated in some form is as stupid as stupid gets. It's the 21st century. No need to believe in sky fairies. But I'm guessing your sky fairy is harder than the others.
ferrisbueller said:
The practicalities of telling 1.4 bn their faith is no longer allowed would be interesting.
You are right however we could encourage people to move away from the more extreme and radical versions of Islam which are practiced today. For example, salafism, wahhabism etc. I mean when was the last time an ahmadi muslim or a bohra muslim or a sufi muslim blew themselves up. The problem seems to be concentrated within a handful of islamic branches.BigLion said:
Countdown said:
BigLion said:
I fundamentally see no positive in Islam (or the close cultural customs) in any way, shape or form - so why would I want to retain it?
Could you not argue the same about sikihism (or indeed any religion)?Alpinestars said:
BigLion said:
You do whatever you want, my focus is the management of the threat we face today.
Go for it. I'd ban all religious or cultural garb as well. To believe that you're going to be reincarnated in some form is as stupid as stupid gets. It's the 21st century. No need to believe in sky fairies. But I'm guessing your sky fairy is harder than the others.
BigLion said:
Alpinestars said:
BigLion said:
You do whatever you want, my focus is the management of the threat we face today.
Go for it. I'd ban all religious or cultural garb as well. To believe that you're going to be reincarnated in some form is as stupid as stupid gets. It's the 21st century. No need to believe in sky fairies. But I'm guessing your sky fairy is harder than the others.
What positive things does religion being to 21st century Britain?
Einion Yrth said:
Well, you could. As an atheist I'd be only too happy to argue against any and all religions. I don't wish, in any way, to persecute those of faith however, as long as they are prepared to abide peaceably by the laws set by the democratic(ish) government of this country. With regard to the current "islamophobia" issue, it's really not surprising that people are concerned; they could educate themselves, but they're lazy and to date I can't recall a single sikh suicide bomber. Somehow decent people from all sides need to unite against these individuals. That may mean greater integration, perhaps a light headscarf rather than the full burqah, that sort of thing?
I agree completely. Possibly at the risk of stating the obvious most women don't wear the burka and even the headscarf is going out of fashion. They're cultural rather than religious anyway and each successive generation assimilates more and more.
Halb said:
skyrover said:
Well there is Israel... oh and Persia was pretty successful until Islam came along.
It was doing well until the CIA and the UK security forces came along as wellAlpinestars said:
BigLion said:
Alpinestars said:
BigLion said:
You do whatever you want, my focus is the management of the threat we face today.
Go for it. I'd ban all religious or cultural garb as well. To believe that you're going to be reincarnated in some form is as stupid as stupid gets. It's the 21st century. No need to believe in sky fairies. But I'm guessing your sky fairy is harder than the others.
What positive things does religion being to 21st century Britain?
Countdown said:
BigLion said:
Countdown said:
BigLion said:
I fundamentally see no positive in Islam (or the close cultural customs) in any way, shape or form - so why would I want to retain it?
Could you not argue the same about sikihism (or indeed any religion)?If Sikhs, Hindus, Jews start blowing up our kids in concerts then we'll address that too, but currently the snack bars are enough filth for us to deal with.
BlackLabel said:
So far we have multiple (5?) calls to the anti terror hotline, the bombers father a known member of a Libyan jihadi group, multiple trips back and forth to Libya and returned from the last one only days before blowing himself up, member of a mosque which preached hatred against Jews, the West etc and now a warning from the FBI only months before the attack. I know they must be overstretched however it's not looking great for the security agencies at the moment.
And yet Amber Rudd denies knowing if the bomber was on the security radar.BigLion said:
Alpinestars said:
BigLion said:
Alpinestars said:
BigLion said:
You do whatever you want, my focus is the management of the threat we face today.
Go for it. I'd ban all religious or cultural garb as well. To believe that you're going to be reincarnated in some form is as stupid as stupid gets. It's the 21st century. No need to believe in sky fairies. But I'm guessing your sky fairy is harder than the others.
What positive things does religion being to 21st century Britain?
I don't see any benefit in any religion. What makes yours any different? And if it isn't, why shouldn't we ban that as well?
Countdown said:
I agree completely.
Possibly at the risk of stating the obvious most women don't wear the burka and even the headscarf is going out of fashion. They're cultural rather than religious anyway and each successive generation assimilates more and more.
I know, and have known, a number of muslims whom I would certainly consider friends and who are sort of "C.o.E" muslims, if you know what I mean, culturally muslim, but hardly Q'uran bashing literalists; thus I can try and take a balanced approach to the issue. For good or ill however lunatics shouting "allahu akbar" and then either shooting inncocents or blowing themselves up has become something of a common occurrence of late; we all need a solution, because my muslim friends are no safer from these lunatics than I am.Possibly at the risk of stating the obvious most women don't wear the burka and even the headscarf is going out of fashion. They're cultural rather than religious anyway and each successive generation assimilates more and more.
Ceeejay said:
BigLion said:
When Sikhs start to blow kids up in a systematic way then I'd ban that too.
Would you have had all Catholics banned for the same reason?Countdown said:
techiedave said:
The "united front" that was shown across all media last week is not as united as you might think already some families of the murdered are raising questions and one in particular does not wish to be part of what they call a circus.
Completely understandable to feel like that. It’s not what muslims in the UK want but exactly what ISIS want.This ties in with the "round them up angle" and I feel personally that it may well be a price that is paid. You yourself indicate that some of your fellow followers (forgive the expression but hopefully take it in the right way) may feel the same in order to feel safer.
I don't know if you saw Question Time last week but there were interesting points made from Nazir Afzal he pretty much suggested leapfrogging communicating with the current Imans and runners of the mosques and communicating with the younger elements that attend. I recall he referred to them as all being male and somewhat priviledged. He came across as very very genuine and light years ahead of some commentators
Countdown said:
I do, and they also go to concerts at the MEN occasionally. (I’m guessing that Mum is going to say “No” to any trips in the near future but they can argue about that amongst themselves). Unfortunately parents never ever stop worrying…best wishes to you and yours.
This is very true . You will always worry One thing that is seen in the footage from the concert but understandably has not received so much publicity is injuries from the stampede effect. What I mean are that people become injured simply by being pushed or falling in a bid to escapeTo be completely honest I think the casualities from this attack could have been much much worse even approaching double figures. It seems that some people were saved as they were able to get enough distance between themselves and the attacker this being due to shouted warnings.
On another less important point. It wasn't all that long ago that GMP were forced to apologise for using the scenario of a jihadist/ Isil attacker in one of their training sessions at the Manchester Arndale. How bitterly ironic that will seem now
Alpinestars said:
BigLion said:
Alpinestars said:
BigLion said:
Alpinestars said:
BigLion said:
You do whatever you want, my focus is the management of the threat we face today.
Go for it. I'd ban all religious or cultural garb as well. To believe that you're going to be reincarnated in some form is as stupid as stupid gets. It's the 21st century. No need to believe in sky fairies. But I'm guessing your sky fairy is harder than the others.
What positive things does religion being to 21st century Britain?
I don't see any benefit in any religion. What makes yours any different? And if it isn't, why shouldn't we ban that as well?
t, ah you must be racist or of an inferior religion innit? What next, you calling me an infidel and declaring war on me?Why don't you drive through a ban on religion, set up a petition as you seem to have a lot of passion / anger around this ? You might find that starting with Islam might give you more traction as prioritisation is a concept we use in the west to advance.
Try to lose that chip on your shoulder and stop making assumptions, as you display the very things that you decry of others.
BigLion said:
Ceeejay said:
BigLion said:
When Sikhs start to blow kids up in a systematic way then I'd ban that too.
Would you have had all Catholics banned for the same reason?BigLion said:
Interesting that you have assumed I have a religion, I have never attested to anything of the such - somehow you have in your own mind distilled this into a religion vs religion fight, that is the essence of classic snack bar thinking. It is a classic snack bar victim mentality - e.g. you don't like the fact we treat our women like st, ah you must be racist or of an inferior religion innit? What next, you calling me an infidel and declaring war on me?
Why don't you drive through a ban on religion, set up a petition as you seem to have a lot of passion / anger around this ? You might find that starting with Islam might give you more traction as prioritisation is a concept we use in the west to advance.
Try to lose that chip on your shoulder and stop making assumptions, as you display the very things that you decry of others.
Brilliant. Care to answer the questions? And don't deny your religion. Surely that'll mean you come back as an Internet wt, ah you must be racist or of an inferior religion innit? What next, you calling me an infidel and declaring war on me?Why don't you drive through a ban on religion, set up a petition as you seem to have a lot of passion / anger around this ? You might find that starting with Islam might give you more traction as prioritisation is a concept we use in the west to advance.
Try to lose that chip on your shoulder and stop making assumptions, as you display the very things that you decry of others.
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