Explosions reported in Manchester?
Discussion
RedTrident said:
There's a phrase I hear more of in this context, 'entryism' I think it is described as, essentially infiltration. The pieces on the board have been moved for several generations, we think this is a new phenomenon, it isn't.
The Saudi teachings are now widespread across the UK. The organisations they've created have members and affiliates that include civil servants, politicians, respected community servants etc.
Especially in the Labour heartlands they've infiltrated the party membership and even have MPs linked directly to these organisations.
What would you say if I said to you that a few years ago our government banned a hate preacher that was scheduled to enter the UK to undertake a series of fundraising dinners for an organisation he is senior member of (evidenced with clear associations with AQ) and that organisation has multiple senior British Muslim politicians as members?
Or how about a serving white Labour MP who is happy to pose for pictures with the brother of a convicted Islamist terrorist from his own constituency? Said brother is also a member of this organisation, tried and failed to 'Trojan Horse' a school and also runs a food bank. There is a historical pattern of such organisations gaining legitimacy in communities through 'community' work.
Why would the MP do such a thing? Perhaps he didn't know. Perhaps he knows he needs not to upset them as they have a strong voting block in the local constituency Labour Party and he did a deal with them to get the party nomination.
There's more, much more. I watched Question Time last week. The Muslim lady who brought up the Saudi mosques, have a look at how some of the more conservatively dressed Muslims reacted. Also the white gentleman who read the leaflet out from the Didsbury mosque.
The government needs to act. They are not doing. What they need to do is straightforward. Its not even complicated. Instead they're passing responsibility.
1. Ban x,y and z organisations and prohibit members from such organisations from public office etc
2. Immediately ban the Saudis from any involvement in the teaching of UK children (you'd shed a tear if you saw the numbers of UK Muslim children being sent to private schools set up by these guys) never mind the mosques. They are brain washing a generation.
3. Prohibit any foreign born Imam from teaching in a UK mosque. The Didsbury mosque Imam at the very least fought alongside the jihadist in Libya. There's a FT article on it. You'll have to decide why more isn't being made of this.
These 3 actions are steps we can as a nation take to help solve the problem, they are ALL completely in the UK government's capabilities. The Prime Minister knows all of this, she was Home Secretary. I can only think that UK-Saudi relations will suffer if we passed legislation.
Politically, its the Labour Party that has most to lose because they've been aligned with these organisations at a community level for generations.
Thank you for taking the time to post that – very informative and very insightful. Also, very worrying.The Saudi teachings are now widespread across the UK. The organisations they've created have members and affiliates that include civil servants, politicians, respected community servants etc.
Especially in the Labour heartlands they've infiltrated the party membership and even have MPs linked directly to these organisations.
What would you say if I said to you that a few years ago our government banned a hate preacher that was scheduled to enter the UK to undertake a series of fundraising dinners for an organisation he is senior member of (evidenced with clear associations with AQ) and that organisation has multiple senior British Muslim politicians as members?
Or how about a serving white Labour MP who is happy to pose for pictures with the brother of a convicted Islamist terrorist from his own constituency? Said brother is also a member of this organisation, tried and failed to 'Trojan Horse' a school and also runs a food bank. There is a historical pattern of such organisations gaining legitimacy in communities through 'community' work.
Why would the MP do such a thing? Perhaps he didn't know. Perhaps he knows he needs not to upset them as they have a strong voting block in the local constituency Labour Party and he did a deal with them to get the party nomination.
There's more, much more. I watched Question Time last week. The Muslim lady who brought up the Saudi mosques, have a look at how some of the more conservatively dressed Muslims reacted. Also the white gentleman who read the leaflet out from the Didsbury mosque.
The government needs to act. They are not doing. What they need to do is straightforward. Its not even complicated. Instead they're passing responsibility.
1. Ban x,y and z organisations and prohibit members from such organisations from public office etc
2. Immediately ban the Saudis from any involvement in the teaching of UK children (you'd shed a tear if you saw the numbers of UK Muslim children being sent to private schools set up by these guys) never mind the mosques. They are brain washing a generation.
3. Prohibit any foreign born Imam from teaching in a UK mosque. The Didsbury mosque Imam at the very least fought alongside the jihadist in Libya. There's a FT article on it. You'll have to decide why more isn't being made of this.
These 3 actions are steps we can as a nation take to help solve the problem, they are ALL completely in the UK government's capabilities. The Prime Minister knows all of this, she was Home Secretary. I can only think that UK-Saudi relations will suffer if we passed legislation.
Politically, its the Labour Party that has most to lose because they've been aligned with these organisations at a community level for generations.
rscott said:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk...
Smaller march on Oxford Street - http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/ashura-day-t...
Yes, but ....Smaller march on Oxford Street - http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/ashura-day-t...
e21Mark said:
In truth, I really don't know much (if anything) about the workings of a Mosque (I'm agnostic myself) but having spoken to friends and past work colleagues who are Muslim (and I would describe as forward thinking and modern), the Islam they live by bears no relation to the fundamentalist / extremist Islam that takes everything at its most literal meaning and is unable to accept that some parts of the text have no part in the 21st century.
I will never understand how these two contradictory positions can ever be reconciled:1. The Qu'ran is the literal word of Allah himself.
2. We must discard the passages which have no part in the 21st century.
The arrogance is mind bending. The one true God, creator of the heavens, the earth, of all life and everything that ever existed, has laid down the perfect (literally, perfect) text on which you must live your life. And then you just pick the bits you like.
Edited by amusingduck on Wednesday 31st May 15:25
amusingduck said:
e21Mark said:
In truth, I really don't know much (if anything) about the workings of a Mosque (I'm agnostic myself) but having spoken to friends and past work colleagues who are Muslim (and I would describe as forward thinking and modern), the Islam they live by bears no relation to the fundamentalist / extremist Islam that takes everything at its most literal meaning and is unable to accept that some parts of the text have no part in the 21st century.
I will never understand how these two contradictory positions can ever be reconciled:1. The Qu'ran is the [u]literal[/u] word of Allah himself.
2. We must discard the passages which have no part in the 21st century.
The arrogance is mind bending. The one true God, creator of the heavens, the earth, of all life and everything that ever existed, has laid down the perfect (literally, perfect) text on which you must live your life. And then you just pick the bits you like.
jjlynn27 said:
rscott said:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk...
Smaller march on Oxford Street - http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/ashura-day-t...
Yes, but ....Smaller march on Oxford Street - http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/ashura-day-t...
amusingduck said:
I will never understand how these two contradictory positions can ever be reconciled:
1. The Qu'ran is the literal word of Allah himself.
2. We must discard the passages which have no part in the 21st century.
The arrogance is mind bending. The one true God, creator of the heavens, the earth, of all life and everything that ever existed, has laid down the perfect (literally, perfect) text on which you must live your life. And then you just pick the bits you like.
Which is exactly Islamic State's view, and why they are hard to challenge theologically.1. The Qu'ran is the literal word of Allah himself.
2. We must discard the passages which have no part in the 21st century.
The arrogance is mind bending. The one true God, creator of the heavens, the earth, of all life and everything that ever existed, has laid down the perfect (literally, perfect) text on which you must live your life. And then you just pick the bits you like.
Edited by amusingduck on Wednesday 31st May 15:25
MikeO996 said:
amusingduck said:
I will never understand how these two contradictory positions can ever be reconciled:
1. The Qu'ran is the literal word of Allah himself.
2. We must discard the passages which have no part in the 21st century.
The arrogance is mind bending. The one true God, creator of the heavens, the earth, of all life and everything that ever existed, has laid down the perfect (literally, perfect) text on which you must live your life. And then you just pick the bits you like.
Which is exactly Islamic State's view, and why they are hard to challenge theologically.1. The Qu'ran is the literal word of Allah himself.
2. We must discard the passages which have no part in the 21st century.
The arrogance is mind bending. The one true God, creator of the heavens, the earth, of all life and everything that ever existed, has laid down the perfect (literally, perfect) text on which you must live your life. And then you just pick the bits you like.
Edited by amusingduck on Wednesday 31st May 15:25
rscott said:
MikeO996 said:
amusingduck said:
I will never understand how these two contradictory positions can ever be reconciled:
1. The Qu'ran is the literal word of Allah himself.
2. We must discard the passages which have no part in the 21st century.
The arrogance is mind bending. The one true God, creator of the heavens, the earth, of all life and everything that ever existed, has laid down the perfect (literally, perfect) text on which you must live your life. And then you just pick the bits you like.
Which is exactly Islamic State's view, and why they are hard to challenge theologically.1. The Qu'ran is the literal word of Allah himself.
2. We must discard the passages which have no part in the 21st century.
The arrogance is mind bending. The one true God, creator of the heavens, the earth, of all life and everything that ever existed, has laid down the perfect (literally, perfect) text on which you must live your life. And then you just pick the bits you like.
Edited by amusingduck on Wednesday 31st May 15:25
If only the creator of mankind had the foresight to state his teachings in language that is unequivocal to his creation
amusingduck said:
rscott said:
MikeO996 said:
amusingduck said:
I will never understand how these two contradictory positions can ever be reconciled:
1. The Qu'ran is the literal word of Allah himself.
2. We must discard the passages which have no part in the 21st century.
The arrogance is mind bending. The one true God, creator of the heavens, the earth, of all life and everything that ever existed, has laid down the perfect (literally, perfect) text on which you must live your life. And then you just pick the bits you like.
Which is exactly Islamic State's view, and why they are hard to challenge theologically.1. The Qu'ran is the literal word of Allah himself.
2. We must discard the passages which have no part in the 21st century.
The arrogance is mind bending. The one true God, creator of the heavens, the earth, of all life and everything that ever existed, has laid down the perfect (literally, perfect) text on which you must live your life. And then you just pick the bits you like.
Edited by amusingduck on Wednesday 31st May 15:25
If only the creator of mankind had the foresight to state his teachings in language that is unequivocal to his creation
rscott said:
amusingduck said:
rscott said:
MikeO996 said:
amusingduck said:
I will never understand how these two contradictory positions can ever be reconciled:
1. The Qu'ran is the literal word of Allah himself.
2. We must discard the passages which have no part in the 21st century.
The arrogance is mind bending. The one true God, creator of the heavens, the earth, of all life and everything that ever existed, has laid down the perfect (literally, perfect) text on which you must live your life. And then you just pick the bits you like.
Which is exactly Islamic State's view, and why they are hard to challenge theologically.1. The Qu'ran is the literal word of Allah himself.
2. We must discard the passages which have no part in the 21st century.
The arrogance is mind bending. The one true God, creator of the heavens, the earth, of all life and everything that ever existed, has laid down the perfect (literally, perfect) text on which you must live your life. And then you just pick the bits you like.
Edited by amusingduck on Wednesday 31st May 15:25
If only the creator of mankind had the foresight to state his teachings in language that is unequivocal to his creation
anonymous said:
[redacted]
And that's why I and many others like me no longer work in this field. It's a sad thing. The 22 that died last week in my city. 100% avoidable. Meanwhile the diversion from our public bodies is this we stand together stuff. All admirable. And we all know the more attacks that happen the less we will stand together and good people will turn on each other.
I still cannot believe the Didsbury mosque imam that fought alongside the jihadists in Libya is allowed to freely teach our children and no one is really calling it out.
RedTrident said:
And that's why I and many others like me no longer work in this field. It's a sad thing. The 22 that died last week in my city. 100% avoidable.
Meanwhile the diversion from our public bodies is this we stand together stuff. All admirable. And we all know the more attacks that happen the less we will stand together and good people will turn on each other.
I still cannot believe the Didsbury mosque imam that fought alongside the jihadists in Libya is allowed to freely teach our children and no one is really calling it out.
Amazing, isnt it ? You'll note the Didsbury mosque defenders who were very vocal in offering up excuses in regard to the Question Time leaflet, all gone silent.Meanwhile the diversion from our public bodies is this we stand together stuff. All admirable. And we all know the more attacks that happen the less we will stand together and good people will turn on each other.
I still cannot believe the Didsbury mosque imam that fought alongside the jihadists in Libya is allowed to freely teach our children and no one is really calling it out.
Even more amazing was the hypocritical stance they have of wanting to be seen as the good Muslims and mosque, but peddling the divisive s
t and inviting in dangerous loons.Deptford Draylons said:
RedTrident said:
And that's why I and many others like me no longer work in this field. It's a sad thing. The 22 that died last week in my city. 100% avoidable.
Meanwhile the diversion from our public bodies is this we stand together stuff. All admirable. And we all know the more attacks that happen the less we will stand together and good people will turn on each other.
I still cannot believe the Didsbury mosque imam that fought alongside the jihadists in Libya is allowed to freely teach our children and no one is really calling it out.
Amazing, isnt it ? You'll note the Didsbury mosque defenders who were very vocal in offering up excuses in regard to the Question Time leaflet, all gone silent.Meanwhile the diversion from our public bodies is this we stand together stuff. All admirable. And we all know the more attacks that happen the less we will stand together and good people will turn on each other.
I still cannot believe the Didsbury mosque imam that fought alongside the jihadists in Libya is allowed to freely teach our children and no one is really calling it out.
Even more amazing was the hypocritical stance they have of wanting to be seen as the good Muslims and mosque, but peddling the divisive s
t and inviting in dangerous loons.What about the imam fighting alongside the jihadists in Libya? There's a FT article on it. Is that false?
I'm a Muslim. I've been to these mosques associated with Saudi funding. The leaflets I've personally seen are far worse than what the bloke on QT read out.
Add that Guardian article I've just linked. Increasingly obvious that our politicians are in bed with the Saudis. And whilst it remains this way, more of our children will be murdered and a generation will be brainwashed.
I'm a Muslim. I've been to these mosques associated with Saudi funding. The leaflets I've personally seen are far worse than what the bloke on QT read out.
Add that Guardian article I've just linked. Increasingly obvious that our politicians are in bed with the Saudis. And whilst it remains this way, more of our children will be murdered and a generation will be brainwashed.
RedTrident said:
Increasingly obvious that our politicians are in bed with the Saudis. And whilst it remains this way, more of our children will be murdered and a generation will be brainwashed.
I have a horrible feeling that the wker who did this bomb was over there with the full support of our establishment.There is a video on YouTube of Mrs T praising the Mujahedeen to high heaven - this is how long we have been colluding with these knobs.
RedTrident said:
As we all know "sensitive" is code for could get our employees in trouble.And by employees I mean the so called right honorable politicians who need to remember that they are supposed to work for us.
RedTrident said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
And that's why I and many others like me no longer work in this field. It's a sad thing. The 22 that died last week in my city. 100% avoidable. Meanwhile the diversion from our public bodies is this we stand together stuff. All admirable. And we all know the more attacks that happen the less we will stand together and good people will turn on each other.
I still cannot believe the Didsbury mosque imam that fought alongside the jihadists in Libya is allowed to freely teach our children and no one is really calling it out.
Countdown made some quiet honest replies to some post I made and its clear that we both feel and worry about our children
laserservo said:
Any evidence for the first part? the thatcher comment is another pointless deflection in another typical episode of deflections.
I am deflecting nothing, I am merely trying to understand why someone was "reported" several times, travelled to see his known Islamist family in a war zone and got back without even being stopped to check if he brought too many fags back.The Thatcher comment is merely to show the we have "worked with" the Islamists since the 80s and continued to do so.
We still sell arms to known
s - and bow nicely whilst we do it.Something stinks.
edit to clarify: I have no "evidence" that we supported his travel. as I said originally it is a "horrible feeling", nothing more.
andymadmak said:
jjlynn27 said:
rscott said:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk...
Smaller march on Oxford Street - http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/ashura-day-t...
Yes, but ....Smaller march on Oxford Street - http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/ashura-day-t...
30,000 non muslim blasphemers ?
Or
A few hundred blocking up Oxford street for hours whilst they celebrate their own holy day ?
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff