Explosions reported in Manchester?

[Countdown]

BlackLabel said:

The Manchester bomber was repeatedly flagged to the authorities over his extremist views and his ‘support of terrorism’ - even by his family. He visited extremists in prison, his family had links to jihadis in Libya - his father fought for such groups, he was banned from Didsbury mosque. When didsbury mosque, one which is hardly a beacon of tolerance and light, itself reports you to to the Home Office’s Prevent scheme then that says a lot.

1 or 2 of these items in their own might not mean much but put together they don’t paint a very good picture - and one that you didn’t need a crystal ball to see.

The article said:

The reviews have found information was received by MI5 about the Manchester attacker, Salman Abedi, which could have been given a higher priority. But that conclusion is reached with the benefit of hindsight, sources say, and nothing in the reviews demonstrates that clear chances were missed to stop any of the attacks that killed 36 people.

[otolith]

Smiler. said:

It will if you fit one of these:

[BlackLabel]

The terror attack on Manchester that killed 22 people might have been prevented if different decisions had been made by MI5, an official report has found.

[SeeFive]

BlackLabel said:

The terror attack on Manchester that killed 22 people might have been prevented if different decisions had been made by MI5, an official report has found.

...and Abbott makes political capital again...

Abbott said:

The shadow home secretary, Diane Abbott, said it was a matter of concern that Abedi had not been under active investigation. She also highlighted Anderson’s confirmation that counter-terrorism policing faced a 7% cut over the next three years and said resources were vital not just for counter-terrorism but also for the community policing that produced vital intelligence.

I guess if we had stopped him at customs and locked him up as suggested she would have been shouting “wacist”.

[rscott]

SeeFive said:

BlackLabel said:

The terror attack on Manchester that killed 22 people might have been prevented if different decisions had been made by MI5, an official report has found.

...and Abbott makes political capital again...

Abbott said:

The shadow home secretary, Diane Abbott, said it was a matter of concern that Abedi had not been under active investigation. She also highlighted Anderson’s confirmation that counter-terrorism policing faced a 7% cut over the next three years and said resources were vital not just for counter-terrorism but also for the community policing that produced vital intelligence.

I guess if we had stopped him at customs and locked him up as suggested she would have been shouting “wacist”.

Where does it suggest he should have been locked up straightaway? Far as i can see, the report suggests that information about him was incorrectly processed and no action taken whatsoever. More likely he'd actually have been monitored to some degree.

Much as I hate agreeing with Labour's top mathematician, she might have a point that reducing funding to anti-terror police is a pretty stupid thing to do at present.

[SeeFive]

rscott said:

Where does it suggest he should have been locked up straightaway? Far as i can see, the report suggests that information about him was incorrectly processed and no action taken whatsoever. More likely he'd actually have been monitored to some degree.

article said:

When Abedi returned to the UK from Libya he should have been stopped at the airport but was not. Anderson said: “With the benefit of hindsight, intelligence was misinterpreted in 2017.”

I would kind of assume that they wouldn’t just stop him, say “good morning sir” and let him on his way immediately.

[Digga]

SeeFive said:

article said:

When Abedi returned to the UK from Libya he should have been stopped at the airport but was not. Anderson said: “With the benefit of hindsight, intelligence was misinterpreted in 2017.”

I would kind of assume that they wouldn’t just stop him, say “good morning sir” and let him on his way immediately.

Open Borders TM

Copyright Tony BLiar esq

[Oakey]

rscott said:

Much as I hate agreeing with Labour's top mathematician, she might have a point that reducing funding to anti-terror police is a pretty stupid thing to do at present.

She wanted MI5 disbanded during the days of the IRA!

[SeeFive]

Digga said:

SeeFive said:

article said:

When Abedi returned to the UK from Libya he should have been stopped at the airport but was not. Anderson said: “With the benefit of hindsight, intelligence was misinterpreted in 2017.”

I would kind of assume that they wouldn’t just stop him, say “good morning sir” and let him on his way immediately.

Open Borders TM

Copyright Tony BLiar esq

Heh heh, indeed, don’tcha just have to love him.

However the terrorism act 2000 or temporary measure Pevention of Terrorism act 1989 would help... even if he was unlikely to be subjected to (given being subject to airport security and half an ounce of sense) the fact that the stop-and-search powers under section 44 of the Act have been ruled illegal by our other good friends at the European Court of Human Rights. If only we could make and enforce our own laws and not be impacted by unelected beurocrats in another country... oh hang on a sec.

Ultimately, he could legally have been stopped and held despite BLiar if int was strong enough.

[///ajd]

Channel 4 making a meal of this.

This sort of thing really annoys me.

MI5 are trying to find a needle in a haystack. We can't always expect 007 type endings.

Hindsight is, er, hindsight.

People who pretend they would have have "done it better" when it comes to guessing who the terrorists might be should reflect on how difficult it is.

[Supercilious Sid]

Oakey said:

She wanted MI5 disbanded during the days of the IRA!

I presume either she had something to hide or they were cramping her style.

[JagLover]

///ajd said:

Channel 4 making a meal of this.

This sort of thing really annoys me.

MI5 are trying to find a needle in a haystack. We can't always expect 007 type endings.

Hindsight is, er, hindsight.

People who pretend they would have have "done it better" when it comes to guessing who the terrorists might be should reflect on how difficult it is.

On this we agree

When, after attacks like this, it comes to light that the intelligence services were aware of the attacker, then it just means they are doing their job.

They don't have the resources to mount round the clock surveillance on thousands of suspects.

[amusingduck]

///ajd said:

Channel 4 making a meal of this.

This sort of thing really annoys me.

MI5 are trying to find a needle in a haystack. We can't always expect 007 type endings.

Hindsight is, er, hindsight.

People who pretend they would have have "done it better" when it comes to guessing who the terrorists might be should reflect on how difficult it is.

Spot on.

[Munter]

rscott said:

Where does it suggest he should have been locked up straightaway? Far as i can see, the report suggests that information about him was incorrectly processed and no action taken whatsoever. More likely he'd actually have been monitored to some degree.

Much as I hate agreeing with Labour's top mathematician, she might have a point that reducing funding to anti-terror police is a pretty stupid thing to do at present.

Only if you consider that threat, bigger than where the money is spent instead.

E.g. Counter terrorism policing saves 10 lives and 5 million in infrastructure damage etc a year. vs. Combating russian interference with the media, which through improving the economy (more NHS money, better lifestyle), and reducing "home grown" terrorist attacks inspired by said social media postings, improves life expectancy by 2 years, and saves 10 lives a year after 5 years.

Who knows which is the better option...who even knows what all the options are, and all the expected outcomes?

Of course Labour (and their backers...), would want it to be a clear cut case. Why wouldn't they...

[rscott]

Munter said:

rscott said:

Where does it suggest he should have been locked up straightaway? Far as i can see, the report suggests that information about him was incorrectly processed and no action taken whatsoever. More likely he'd actually have been monitored to some degree.

Much as I hate agreeing with Labour's top mathematician, she might have a point that reducing funding to anti-terror police is a pretty stupid thing to do at present.

Only if you consider that threat, bigger than where the money is spent instead.

E.g. Counter terrorism policing saves 10 lives and 5 million in infrastructure damage etc a year. vs. Combating russian interference with the media, which through improving the economy (more NHS money, better lifestyle), and reducing "home grown" terrorist attacks inspired by said social media postings, improves life expectancy by 2 years, and saves 10 lives a year after 5 years.

Who knows which is the better option...who even knows what all the options are, and all the expected outcomes?

Of course Labour (and their backers...), would want it to be a clear cut case. Why wouldn't they...

Isn't the issue that overall funding to the police (not just anti-terrorism units) is being cut, with the corresponding reduction in all their operations?

[BlackLabel]

Greater Manchester Police happily mixing with religious hate preachers.

http://hurryupharry.org/2017/12/14/greater-manches...

Praising extremists who share the same ideology as that of the Manchester bomber.

It's not as if they weren't warned.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/Pakistani-hate-preacher-w...

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/we...

Edited by BlackLabel on Thursday 14th December 19:15

[del mar]

You're not confusing hate with traditional Islamic values are you ?

The murdered mp stood up against blasphemy laws, these would be god's laws.

Edited by del mar on Thursday 14th December 20:22

[del mar]

You're not confusing hate with traditional Islamic values are you ?

The murdered mp stood up against blasphemy laws, these would be god's laws.

Edited by del mar on Thursday 14th December 20:29

[Countdown]

BlackLabel said:

Greater Manchester Police happily mixing with religious hate preachers.

http://hurryupharry.org/2017/12/14/greater-manches...

Praising extremists who share the same ideology as that of the Manchester bomber.

It's not as if they weren't warned.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/Pakistani-hate-preacher-w...

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/we...

Edited by BlackLabel on Thursday 14th December 19:15

My understanding is that inciting hatred is a crime. If so, why haven't these guys been locked up?

[Smiler.]

Countdown said:

BlackLabel said:

Greater Manchester Police happily mixing with religious hate preachers.

http://hurryupharry.org/2017/12/14/greater-manches...

Praising extremists who share the same ideology as that of the Manchester bomber.

It's not as if they weren't warned.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/Pakistani-hate-preacher-w...

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/we...

Edited by BlackLabel on Thursday 14th December 19:15

My understanding is that inciting hatred is a crime. If so, why haven't these guys been locked up?

cough "rotherham"


Perhaps a bit glib but the sentiment is that "community leaders", police, councils etc are so desperate for some quick wins in the field of community relations, they'll skip on background checks.

What's your view on the clerics in question?