Teenage Audi mechanic committed suicide after bullying
Discussion
Zetec-S said:
Serious question - what makes someone a 'qualified' mechanic?
As a minimum City and Guilds parts 1 and 2 in motor vehicle craft studies.Next would be a BTEC national certificate or nowadays an NVQ level 3 or 4.
Most manufacturers have their own apprentice programs which are run by external training providers to train to the above levels.
Once qualified technicians are graded by the manufacturers. Someone just completed an apprenticeship would be a Level 1 or 2.
Manufacturers then have training pathways to take techs on to Level 4 or master tech status.
Jazzy Jag said:
I think you will find that most contracts of employment have a clause including "other duties incidental to your employment"
At 16, and a financial cost to the company, if the boss says wash my car, you do it and you had better make a good job of it.
People need to recognise the as the apprentice you are starting at the very bottom.
You keep your head down, do as you are told and learn all you can.
In years 3 and 4 you might start to earn your keep and start to pay back what the company has invested in you.
You do not tell the boss to wash his own car. No body wants a hobby "entitled" upstart who is actually costing them money.
Don't get me wrong, what this company did was off the chart and indefensible IMHO.
All you "moral high ground" guys need to spend some quality time in the real world.
We have apprentices at our place. They are treated with same respect as any other employee. Certainly wouldn't be washing the bosses car or anything similar!At 16, and a financial cost to the company, if the boss says wash my car, you do it and you had better make a good job of it.
People need to recognise the as the apprentice you are starting at the very bottom.
You keep your head down, do as you are told and learn all you can.
In years 3 and 4 you might start to earn your keep and start to pay back what the company has invested in you.
You do not tell the boss to wash his own car. No body wants a hobby "entitled" upstart who is actually costing them money.
Don't get me wrong, what this company did was off the chart and indefensible IMHO.
All you "moral high ground" guys need to spend some quality time in the real world.
Jazzy Jag said:
Don't get me wrong, what this company did was off the chart and indefensible IMHO.
All you "moral high ground" guys need to spend some quality time in the real world.
You understand you're both agreeing and disagreeing with the "moral high ground" guys in two sentences?All you "moral high ground" guys need to spend some quality time in the real world.
vonuber said:
Zetec-S said:
Serious question - what makes someone a 'qualified' mechanic?
When you have had your balls sufficiently greased enough to be able to do it to the next poor sod.Jazzy Jag said:
I think you will find that most contracts of employment have a clause including "other duties incidental to your employment"
At 16, and a financial cost to the company, if the boss says wash my car, you do it and you had better make a good job of it.
People need to recognise the as the apprentice you are starting at the very bottom.
You keep your head down, do as you are told and learn all you can.
In years 3 and 4 you might start to earn your keep and start to pay back what the company has invested in you.
You do not tell the boss to wash his own car. No body wants a hobby "entitled" upstart who is actually costing them money.
Don't get me wrong, what this company did was off the chart and indefensible IMHO.
All you "moral high ground" guys need to spend some quality time in the real world.
I do, thanks and we treat our apprentices with the same respect that we treat everyone else. At 16, and a financial cost to the company, if the boss says wash my car, you do it and you had better make a good job of it.
People need to recognise the as the apprentice you are starting at the very bottom.
You keep your head down, do as you are told and learn all you can.
In years 3 and 4 you might start to earn your keep and start to pay back what the company has invested in you.
You do not tell the boss to wash his own car. No body wants a hobby "entitled" upstart who is actually costing them money.
Don't get me wrong, what this company did was off the chart and indefensible IMHO.
All you "moral high ground" guys need to spend some quality time in the real world.
The apprentice is entitled to be treated fairly and with respect, just like any other employee.
PositronicRay said:
It's going to be a company car/asset/demonstrator, of course if asked it should be washed, valet team helped if need be, I've seen techs washing cars, valet teams flat out/gone home customer's cars late, somebodys gotta do it. A recovery driver washed a rental car for me before I took it, I asked him not to bother but he insisted. (company policy and only him there to it)
At the end of the day the workshop is cleaned, swept, floor polisher etc. techs do this. Just as if you work in a retail shop you'll clean shelves before merchandising, In an office do you refuse to photo copy something because it's below your station?
Exactly. The way some folk on here carry on you would think the only thing they do is attend board meetings. At the end of the day the workshop is cleaned, swept, floor polisher etc. techs do this. Just as if you work in a retail shop you'll clean shelves before merchandising, In an office do you refuse to photo copy something because it's below your station?
I work in an engineering environment. Our apprentices work on some very expensive bits of kit. They also empty the bins in the workshop and clean the floors.
Nanook said:
If an apprentice refuses to do part of their actual job, there's disciplinary action that can be taken.
The example cited in the link was that this kid refused to mop a floor. I'm talking from experience, but one of my tasks at the end of each day was to mop the bay of the person I was working with (mentor to use the current terminology) Wasn't ever written down in my contract, probably something vague like "other tasks to be decided by management as required"
I did it, and did it well. no s
t at my door. The apprentice that kicked up every time, or worse, refused by just going and hiding somewhere and then going home inevitably got more blow back. I was also expected to empty half the bins into the skip outside (the other apprentice did the other half) Also sends the message that if you keep the place clean it's better and you cant treat the place like st.Nowadays, I keep my area clean (mainly
) and I've always said I wouldn't ask an apprentice to do anything I'd never done. It speaks to a culture of cleanliness and the standards are inevitably higher than a backstreet. Halmyre said:
And why should apprentices need 'toughening up'? It's a car workshop, not the Foreign Legion.
A lot of the kids that rock up are a bit wet behind the ears. Remember we are talking about a generation that have been raised to "know their rights" and "everyones a winner" They aren't ready for some of the stronger banter I've heard. They forget that an apprenticeship is not "just" a job, but an opportunity to give yourself a career. If you go in working to rule, or taking yourself too damn seriously is never a winning attitude. And you (as an adult) certainly wouldn't go to a new job with that attitude.
Vaud said:
WinstonWolf said:
Apprentices start at the bottom, if tea needs making that's the apprentices job. That's how it's always been and how it always will.
Update the website?
Nope. We hire apprentices from school. They are treated as everyone else. They make the tea for themselves. Update the website?
If you ignore the bullying, (since that's not the norm) but you heard some of the things the Techs say to each other you'd think they hated each other. But they don't. Someone mentioned the Army earlier, it's not a million miles away from that.
"You f
king wker" You fking bag tt" etc etcBut if people need help they'll always be someone who will step up.
Vaud said:
Along with an assumption that a PA has to be a "her"
My DP's PA is a lady. She probably earns more than me. 
whythem said:
berlintaxi said:
What is someone who is employed to learn the intricacies of fixing cars going to learn from washing one?
Detailing.Zetec-S said:
berlintaxi said:
How many qualified mechanics do you know who spend their day detailing customers cars?
Serious question - what makes someone a 'qualified' mechanic?I don't call myself a mechanic either
Oakey said:
We're all adults here, you can tell us, did these thinggs harden you up? Did you start off soft and leave hard? Did you go on to make new apprentices hard yourself?
About having his balls greased? Sounds like something on chaturbate
ETA wait, you said you work in IT from home?
NVM, perhaps all that banter had no affect. . .
Edited by Iownacar on Friday 26th May 20:40
I contributed early on in the topic, but read up to page 12 and skipped until now...
This topic highlights a MASSIVE issue with a difference of opinion within society today.
When I was a kid, if my dad asked me to help him bleed the brakes on his car. I did it.
If my mum asked me to help clean the toilet, I'd roll my sleeves up and get elbows deep in st.
When my brother told me he needed me to drive his kit from A to B, I did it.
This carried onto work. If my boss asked me to wash the car, he'd only have done so if we were quiet. I also really enjoyed cleaning my on car and knew I'd do a good job of it. I wanted to impress the person who had employed me.
Everyone who is stating it's the managers job to clean his own car is part of a growing problem within the UK. You've got kids growing up today, who spout their rights, that if they're using phones in school that we can't take their property. They will start work when they're ready. They won't wear the correct uniform because their mum and dad won't pay extra money for it...are these the kids you want to employ?
I taught kids who drive new cars, had iPhones, expensive clothes and their parents cried at parents evening because they couldn't get their kid to turn up to college on time. God forbid they'd have to clean the managers car!
This topic highlights a MASSIVE issue with a difference of opinion within society today.
When I was a kid, if my dad asked me to help him bleed the brakes on his car. I did it.
If my mum asked me to help clean the toilet, I'd roll my sleeves up and get elbows deep in s
t. When my brother told me he needed me to drive his kit from A to B, I did it.
This carried onto work. If my boss asked me to wash the car, he'd only have done so if we were quiet. I also really enjoyed cleaning my on car and knew I'd do a good job of it. I wanted to impress the person who had employed me.
Everyone who is stating it's the managers job to clean his own car is part of a growing problem within the UK. You've got kids growing up today, who spout their rights, that if they're using phones in school that we can't take their property. They will start work when they're ready. They won't wear the correct uniform because their mum and dad won't pay extra money for it...are these the kids you want to employ?
I taught kids who drive new cars, had iPhones, expensive clothes and their parents cried at parents evening because they couldn't get their kid to turn up to college on time. God forbid they'd have to clean the managers car!
berlintaxi said:
Jinx said:
Vaud said:
Nanook said:
Why would an apprentice be washing the service managers car on company time? If an apprentice refuses to do part of their actual job, there's disciplinary action that can be taken.
If the gaffer wants his car washed, he can do it himself. Straightforward.
Absolutely. Tasks should be part of the job/role description. They aren't "cheap labour" to do anything and everything. If the gaffer wants his car washed, he can do it himself. Straightforward.
Unit 3902-010 Introduction to principles of vehicle body and interior cleaning.
What other excuses are you going to make for apprentices who are asked to wash their bosses (or customers) cars and say it's bullying other than it must snow all year round????
You should all back away from the topic, with an apology and keep your own irrelevant opinions to yourselves.
- Edit to add - How dare these kids actually try and learn how to pass their course? Unbelievable.
Edited by SpeedMattersNot on Saturday 27th May 00:01
I haven't read the whole thread but got the jist of it. For my part I was an apprentice at a Honda dealer in the early 90's and the bullying I received there was enough to push me out of the career and look for work elsewhere. Some might say its character building but when it endangers your life then you have to walk away and find something else.
Some of the examples of 'highjinks' I was on the end of was...
Had a broom shoved through the arms of my overalls and then taped using masking tape to an up and over door. The door was then winched up nearly breaking my knees as they don't bend backwards! Once I was up in the air (about 15-20 feet up) the tts started hosing me down with a water hose, the masking tape started stretching and breaking and I thought I was going to face plant the floor.
Not the worst though, as one day I was grabbed and put in a black bin, along with all the other st, another bin was put on top of it and the handles cable tied together. I was then stuck on a lift and hoisted up. That should have been enough but no, the biggest bully there decided to fire a Co2 fire extinguisher in the space I was in. I woke up on the toilet floor coughing up a lung, apparently they were worried when my lips were blue as they dragged me out of the bin.
Another 'apprentice' (dogsbody) was taped to an office chair, literally head to foot with only his nose free to breath. He then had water poured over him whilst a petrol can was held under his nose. He thought they were pouring petrol on him. The tossers then started clicking lighters near his face, poor lad walked away from the job after that episode.
If I saw any of them in the street I think I would happily do time for what they did to me. Karma is a bh though as I did hear that the main bully from this story died a while back, not one to wish Ill, but I bloody hope he suffered.
This was from a main dealer, god knows what other lads suffered, but it just shows that nothing has changed in the trade.
Glad I'm out of it!!
Some of the examples of 'highjinks' I was on the end of was...
Had a broom shoved through the arms of my overalls and then taped using masking tape to an up and over door. The door was then winched up nearly breaking my knees as they don't bend backwards! Once I was up in the air (about 15-20 feet up) the t
ts started hosing me down with a water hose, the masking tape started stretching and breaking and I thought I was going to face plant the floor. Not the worst though, as one day I was grabbed and put in a black bin, along with all the other s
t, another bin was put on top of it and the handles cable tied together. I was then stuck on a lift and hoisted up. That should have been enough but no, the biggest bully there decided to fire a Co2 fire extinguisher in the space I was in. I woke up on the toilet floor coughing up a lung, apparently they were worried when my lips were blue as they dragged me out of the bin. Another 'apprentice' (dogsbody) was taped to an office chair, literally head to foot with only his nose free to breath. He then had water poured over him whilst a petrol can was held under his nose. He thought they were pouring petrol on him. The tossers then started clicking lighters near his face, poor lad walked away from the job after that episode.
If I saw any of them in the street I think I would happily do time for what they did to me. Karma is a b
h though as I did hear that the main bully from this story died a while back, not one to wish Ill, but I bloody hope he suffered. This was from a main dealer, god knows what other lads suffered, but it just shows that nothing has changed in the trade.
Glad I'm out of it!!
Daggle74 said:
stuff
fking hell.For those who have been on the tools, so to speak, are there any main dealer brands or franchises that have a lower tolerance for this sort of thing? I don't know whether it depends on the car brand or the dealer group or both (or neither).
If you pay more money do you get less t
ttery?I know that we are only hearing the anecdotes, but from the number posted so far, it seems pretty common.
Rich_W said:
Someone mentioned the Army earlier, it's not a million miles away from that.
"You fking wker" You fking bag tt" etc etc
But if people need help they'll always be someone who will step up.
Ahh, someone will be along to justify hazing in a minute. Because that went well in Deepcut and other barracks..."You f
king wker" You fking bag tt" etc etcBut if people need help they'll always be someone who will step up.
Vaud said:
Rich_W said:
Someone mentioned the Army earlier, it's not a million miles away from that.
"You fking wker" You fking bag tt" etc etc
But if people need help they'll always be someone who will step up.
Ahh, someone will be along to justify hazing in a minute. Because that went well in Deepcut and other barracks..."You f
king wker" You fking bag tt" etc etcBut if people need help they'll always be someone who will step up.
Top bloke, took a bunch of gobby kids and instilled the discipline necessary in a very dangerous environment.
WinstonWolf said:
Funnily enough one of our welding instructors was ex military, twenty press ups was a regular thing if you were playing up.
Top bloke, took a bunch of gobby kids and instilled the discipline necessary in a very dangerous environment.
Don't get me wrong, discipline is fine.Top bloke, took a bunch of gobby kids and instilled the discipline necessary in a very dangerous environment.
Hazing and bullying are another.
You can have discipline and respect without bullying. I'd prefer the 20 press-ups to being strung up on a hoist, etc.
Just remembered another one. I did my work experience with the council, they have tankers which empty the cess pits. There's a valve on the rear that seizes and needs someone to stand inside with a spanner.
I already knew that I was getting that job
Wash the bosses car? Boo fking hoo...
I already knew that I was getting that job
Wash the bosses car? Boo f
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