Teenage Audi mechanic committed suicide after bullying
Discussion
SpeedMattersNot said:
OpulentBob said:
SpeedMattersNot said:
Multiple counts of physical and emotional bullying on a daily basis and from me, too.
Hardly something to be proud of. It seems everyone is accepting of the 'long wait' style general pranks but there will still be thousands of apprentices who find this difficult to deal with.
You could have said in your post, "physical and emotional bullying on a daily basis and from me too, and I am embarrassed, ashamed and regret it every day"
Then you wouldn't have had half a dozen people calling you a cock.
garyhun said:
What are the chances of criminal proceedings being brought against staff and management?
Can an inquest recommend that?
Breadvan72 would probably be best placed to advise. IANAL.Can an inquest recommend that?
This blog looks like a start point for the relevant legislation:
http://employment.law-ondemand.com/suicide-in-the-...
spaximus said:
As an apprentice in a garage in the late 70's it was par for the course that you got picked on. Sent for long waits, skyhooks, family way toffees from the shop etc. There was always one who went too far, greasing my b
ks and then throwing oil grit on them, but the worst was when they welded my steel toe capped boots to the bench, with me still wearing them.
But you learnt that most of it was pranks, not meant to harm and we got on and after you became useful it stopped. Our boss allowed so much but things like the boot incident was too far and people got in trouble.
What I learnt was to get my own back, filling a tool box with cement dust, swapping a marked spanner with the two biggest meat heads boxes so they think each other is a thief.
In this case, it seems that there was no horseplay, it was just evil bullying of a clearly venerable young man. I think his state of mind was not robust and his relationship breakdown had a lot to do with it, but the level of abuse would easily push him over the edge.
I suspect criminal or civil action will follow
I spent the first few years of my career working in Halfords with an attached garage, and yes, pranks were the order of the day - sending the work experience lad round the local bike shops to get pads for a menstrual cycle, or to the VW dealer for a Beetle radiator. Or hiding somebody in a roof box and when another person walked past, they'd jump out of it - unless it was locked it beforehand - prank the prankster.ks and then throwing oil grit on them, but the worst was when they welded my steel toe capped boots to the bench, with me still wearing them.But you learnt that most of it was pranks, not meant to harm and we got on and after you became useful it stopped. Our boss allowed so much but things like the boot incident was too far and people got in trouble.
What I learnt was to get my own back, filling a tool box with cement dust, swapping a marked spanner with the two biggest meat heads boxes so they think each other is a thief.
In this case, it seems that there was no horseplay, it was just evil bullying of a clearly venerable young man. I think his state of mind was not robust and his relationship breakdown had a lot to do with it, but the level of abuse would easily push him over the edge.
I suspect criminal or civil action will follow
The one time it did go to far, one of the fitters was leaving from an early shift on a warm sunny day. He got on his bike wearing just his shorts and trainers to ride home, and a few of the guys threw a bucket of sugar water over him as he left. By the time he got home he had a swarm of insects following him and was covered in bites and stings.
Luckily nothing a bit of calamine didn't sort out, but one of the other fitters was highly allergic to stings (he carried a shock pen in case he was stung) so we were all warned about such pranks and their unintended consequences.
Vaud said:
garyhun said:
What are the chances of criminal proceedings being brought against staff and management?
Can an inquest recommend that?
Breadvan72 would probably be best placed to advise. IANAL.Can an inquest recommend that?
This blog looks like a start point for the relevant legislation:
http://employment.law-ondemand.com/suicide-in-the-...
OpulentBob said:
A "long weight" is not physical bullying - presumably of a young apprentice by older, more experienced guys who are already part of the "gang".
You could have said in your post, "physical and emotional bullying on a daily basis and from me too, and I am embarrassed, ashamed and regret it every day"
Then you wouldn't have had half a dozen people calling you a cock.
True, my post is somewhat misleading, but I am not embarrassed, ashamed or regret what I did as nothing was that bad. It was just very silly, childish stuff like;You could have said in your post, "physical and emotional bullying on a daily basis and from me too, and I am embarrassed, ashamed and regret it every day"
Then you wouldn't have had half a dozen people calling you a cock.
- He smoked in the workshop - I'd hide his cigarettes.
- He borrowed tools without asking - I'd take the tools back and pretend he had lost them.
- He damaged doors on a van and blamed the cleaner - I convinced him to own up by singing songs in an annoying voice.
- He dropped a bolt in the inlet manifold and started the engine - I put bolts in his trouser pockets, wallet etc.
Like I said, silly stuff but not going to lose any sleep. You've just read what you wanted to hear and got a stiffy over it. I'd go and take a cold shower if I was you...definitely whatever you do, don't watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEDSds-pwq0
Rich_W said:
Setting someone on fire seems a bit ott!
BUT
As someone whose been in the trade a very long time. Be under no illusion a lot (like 90%!) of these apprentices bring this st to their door. When I was an apprentice there over a few years were several. I never got marked out for extra abuse. I wasn't ever treated like a wker. Probably cause I had a modicum of common sense and knew these people were giving me a career with their training, so when I was wrong I was wrong and when I was right they respected me. Whereas the ones who created st the whole time (and eventually left) were ripped often. Its the old attitude test.
Far too many are belligerent, wont listen to instruction, wont learn, rock up late constantly, make no effort, shirk their chores, throw crap on the floor, play with their phones constantly, are gobby to the people who are TRYING to help them. Disrespect Techs personal tools. And the biggest one is they LIE. They lie that they did something or they lie that they didn't do something, even though its been proven to be the case.
The problem is then that the other staff give up on them. If they don't want to learn why waste your time trying to teach. And basically want them to quit so start being aholes to them
I would say that in the last 10 years, I can count on 2 hands the amount of apprentices I've seen a) finish the apprenticeship and b) stay in the trade
I have personally binned off at least 4 over the years.
One of them had been with nearly every decent guy in the workshop, but pissed them all off. I took pity on him and tried. There were many disagreements, he was more interested in driving the cars than working on them. But the final straw was when he broke my ratchet (it happens) but rather than tell me just left it on the other side of the workshop broken. And went home. When I asked him about it the next day he just said shrugged and laughed. Told him right there and then to fk off and never even come near me again. He thought I was joking. And asked later on to borrow some tools and was visibly shocked when I said No. he then went sick for 3 weeks and never came back. Worked in a pub for a while. Thenhe had tried to restart his apprenticeship. Only to then ps off all the guys at this new place!
Another came over and wanted to use my Torque Wrench. I was in the middle of using it at the time so said "Sorry, No" he then turned to the next guy and said "Rich is being a not lending me tools can I borrow yours" When I queried this he said "I asked nicely, you should have said Yes" When I pointed out I wasn't obligated to give him anything. He got stupid back. He got told where to fk off to as well.
To me that sounds like poor recruitment and shockingly bad line management. I'm not saying that apprentices/recruits/graduate trainees can't be numpties. After all we were all young and naive once. But any decent organisations will have policies on behaviour, and managers who are trained on making sure staff behave, without needing to tell them to "fBUT
As someone whose been in the trade a very long time. Be under no illusion a lot (like 90%!) of these apprentices bring this s
t to their door. When I was an apprentice there over a few years were several. I never got marked out for extra abuse. I wasn't ever treated like a wker. Probably cause I had a modicum of common sense and knew these people were giving me a career with their training, so when I was wrong I was wrong and when I was right they respected me. Whereas the ones who created st the whole time (and eventually left) were ripped often. Its the old attitude test.Far too many are belligerent, wont listen to instruction, wont learn, rock up late constantly, make no effort, shirk their chores, throw crap on the floor, play with their phones constantly, are gobby to the people who are TRYING to help them. Disrespect Techs personal tools. And the biggest one is they LIE. They lie that they did something or they lie that they didn't do something, even though its been proven to be the case.
The problem is then that the other staff give up on them. If they don't want to learn why waste your time trying to teach. And basically want them to quit so start being a
holes to themI would say that in the last 10 years, I can count on 2 hands the amount of apprentices I've seen a) finish the apprenticeship and b) stay in the trade
I have personally binned off at least 4 over the years.
One of them had been with nearly every decent guy in the workshop, but pissed them all off. I took pity on him and tried. There were many disagreements, he was more interested in driving the cars than working on them. But the final straw was when he broke my ratchet (it happens) but rather than tell me just left it on the other side of the workshop broken. And went home. When I asked him about it the next day he just said shrugged and laughed. Told him right there and then to f
k off and never even come near me again. He thought I was joking. And asked later on to borrow some tools and was visibly shocked when I said No. he then went sick for 3 weeks and never came back. Worked in a pub for a while. Thenhe had tried to restart his apprenticeship. Only to then ps off all the guys at this new place!Another came over and wanted to use my Torque Wrench. I was in the middle of using it at the time so said "Sorry, No" he then turned to the next guy and said "Rich is being a
not lending me tools can I borrow yours" When I queried this he said "I asked nicely, you should have said Yes" When I pointed out I wasn't obligated to give him anything. He got stupid back. He got told where to fk off to as well. k off".Countdown said:
To me that sounds like poor recruitment and shockingly bad line management. I'm not saying that apprentices/recruits/graduate trainees can't be numpties. After all we were all young and naive once. But any decent organisations will have policies on behaviour, and managers who are trained on making sure staff behave, without needing to tell them to "fk off".
A few years ago, the parts department were throwing out lots of useful stuff into a skip. A lot of nuts and bolts, washers and fasteners were invaluable to a technicians toolkit to get themselves or others out of the sk off".t (door trim clips anyone?). Some of the techs tried to rummage around in there and got shouted at by the parts manager. At break time, the parts manager came walking through the workshop and I said "quick, hide those nuts and bolts!". As everyone chuckled he walked over, grabbed me by the throat and pushed me over a car bonnet. It wasn't anything out of the ordinary to be honest, he'd done that type of thing before and all I got was a letter of apology from him at the managers request. I stuck it above my toolbox and we all laughed about it later.
I think a lot of non-trade types here think that Susan taking the last biscuit is bad day at work
SpeedMattersNot said:
I think a lot of non-trade types here think that Susan taking the last biscuit is bad day at work
You get the treatment that you're prepared to tolerate.
SpeedMattersNot said:
Countdown said:
To me that sounds like poor recruitment and shockingly bad line management. I'm not saying that apprentices/recruits/graduate trainees can't be numpties. After all we were all young and naive once. But any decent organisations will have policies on behaviour, and managers who are trained on making sure staff behave, without needing to tell them to "fk off".
A few years ago, the parts department were throwing out lots of useful stuff into a skip. A lot of nuts and bolts, washers and fasteners were invaluable to a technicians toolkit to get themselves or others out of the sk off".t (door trim clips anyone?). Some of the techs tried to rummage around in there and got shouted at by the parts manager. At break time, the parts manager came walking through the workshop and I said "quick, hide those nuts and bolts!". As everyone chuckled he walked over, grabbed me by the throat and pushed me over a car bonnet. It wasn't anything out of the ordinary to be honest, he'd done that type of thing before and all I got was a letter of apology from him at the managers request. I stuck it above my toolbox and we all laughed about it later.
I think a lot of non-trade types here think that Susan taking the last biscuit is bad day at work
Harmless pranks are fine - I've had many of the jokes before, and where I work we've done several of the "office" type pranks - hiding things
but physical assault as a "prank" is a step too far for some. You clearly were fine with it, but maybe you're the exception?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Didn't Batman use a Sky Hook to abduct that chinese mobster from a sky scraper in HK? I am sure that is what they called it, some kind of emergency extraction system (prototype of course, its batman) to get people out of a jam. Definitely not a made up thing:
https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-stor...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsTIeZ03Hk8
looks like a hell of a ride!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Call yourselves Pistonheads!http://workshopmanual.com/files/264/pdf/page-39.pd...
Shocking behaviour, this is my local Audi main stealer, I drive past it every day.
In my short ownership of a TT my sales experience with them was poor, and the one service I had there I was made to feel like an inconvenience. It seems their attitude to their customers extends to their staff.
Best treatment people can now give them is to publicly shame them and buy elsewhere.
In my short ownership of a TT my sales experience with them was poor, and the one service I had there I was made to feel like an inconvenience. It seems their attitude to their customers extends to their staff.
Best treatment people can now give them is to publicly shame them and buy elsewhere.
Shakermaker said:
yes but really, why does being in "the trade" make it ok for you to be physically assaulted at work? Is it OK because you're all in a workshop, why is it OK there and not in an office full of accountants etc?
Harmless pranks are fine - I've had many of the jokes before, and where I work we've done several of the "office" type pranks - hiding things
but physical assault as a "prank" is a step too far for some. You clearly were fine with it, but maybe you're the exception?
Quite. Like the sexist or lewd comments to "the office bird", it's now 2017, not 1975.Harmless pranks are fine - I've had many of the jokes before, and where I work we've done several of the "office" type pranks - hiding things
but physical assault as a "prank" is a step too far for some. You clearly were fine with it, but maybe you're the exception?
The verbal stuff can be as bad as the physical. Bullying is bullying.
Personally I'm appalled that in a "professional" business like Sytner that has the scale to have HR, policies and a level of professional management training that this has come to pass.
I did a weeks work experience at a rover main dealer, obviously I was their puppet for the week. The last prank was someone sprayed brake cleaner into the back of my overalls but some other nob decided to pretend to light it with a flick of a lighter, it only took a spark and it did go up. I couldn't see the flames but just remember them ripping my overalls off and whacking the flames(me) . They were all pale as hell and quiet after the incident so I knew it was pretty serious. The last couple of days they were nice as pies but it was enough to put me off the motor trade. They were nice enough to me but this was a joke to far and they knew this.
One or 2 things you could consider a joke but constantly day in day out is bullying.
One or 2 things you could consider a joke but constantly day in day out is bullying.
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