May Vs Corbyn live on the telly,
Discussion
///ajd said:
my eyes are open
ironic that some are accusing me of sneering whilst doing that themselves (xjs post)
if you put aside the tribal slasher nonsense for one minute, she did actually reveal something of here hand.
she only ever said "no deal" quickly followed by better than no deal. she also stressed "you have to say that", which revealed (as many have commented), its just a tactic, and a rather transparent pointless one, as she just doesn't believe in no deal.
to give her more credit, she is saying it to placate the brexiteers, and this thread shows she is right to.
everyone of your posts in condescending and arrogant.ironic that some are accusing me of sneering whilst doing that themselves (xjs post)
if you put aside the tribal slasher nonsense for one minute, she did actually reveal something of here hand.
she only ever said "no deal" quickly followed by better than no deal. she also stressed "you have to say that", which revealed (as many have commented), its just a tactic, and a rather transparent pointless one, as she just doesn't believe in no deal.
to give her more credit, she is saying it to placate the brexiteers, and this thread shows she is right to.
///ajd said:
jsf said:
///ajd said:
The fact she can't say "yes" to no deal speaks volumes - she doesn't mean it, she desperately wants a deal, but has been persuading to play the "no deal" charade.
Perhaps it is only to fool the gullible and has no real purpose in the negotiations, it does seem to work on some after all.
She did say yes, at 87 minutes into the program. She said it twice, they then pan to the audience and women on the end of the row in black dress with pendant round her neck pulls a "blimey" face.Perhaps it is only to fool the gullible and has no real purpose in the negotiations, it does seem to work on some after all.
she then says "you have to", when asked again, and expands on that.
open your eyes and ears slasher, go look at it again.
ironic that some are accusing me of sneering whilst doing that themselves (xjs post)
if you put aside the tribal slasher nonsense for one minute, she did actually reveal something of here hand.
she only ever said "no deal" quickly followed by better than no deal. she also stressed "you have to say that", which revealed (as many have commented), its just a tactic, and a rather transparent pointless one, as she just doesn't believe in no deal.
to give her more credit, she is saying it to placate the brexiteers, and this thread shows she is right to.
k he will never see powerjohnxjsc1985 said:
///ajd said:
my eyes are open
ironic that some are accusing me of sneering whilst doing that themselves (xjs post)
if you put aside the tribal slasher nonsense for one minute, she did actually reveal something of here hand.
she only ever said "no deal" quickly followed by better than no deal. she also stressed "you have to say that", which revealed (as many have commented), its just a tactic, and a rather transparent pointless one, as she just doesn't believe in no deal.
to give her more credit, she is saying it to placate the brexiteers, and this thread shows she is right to.
everyone of your posts in condescending and arrogant.ironic that some are accusing me of sneering whilst doing that themselves (xjs post)
if you put aside the tribal slasher nonsense for one minute, she did actually reveal something of here hand.
she only ever said "no deal" quickly followed by better than no deal. she also stressed "you have to say that", which revealed (as many have commented), its just a tactic, and a rather transparent pointless one, as she just doesn't believe in no deal.
to give her more credit, she is saying it to placate the brexiteers, and this thread shows she is right to.
Burwood said:
LDN not being anti Tory 
You'd be surprised Burwood... I realise that things aren't black and white; they're nuanced and complex... unlike most on pistonheads; yourself most certainly included 
There are things I prefer on the Tory side; most notably; I have a number of businesses - and so, of course; lower corporation tax, and all that goes with it is a plus.
However, Theresa May; long before she became prime minister - has had an abysmal record and I can see that there plan of action, so far, is failing. As well; i've long long known that the Tories put figures on things and get nowhere near them; and so they may as well not bother... which coincidently IS their new tack it seems. Green paper this, consultation that... it could / should / would have be done pre-election if they weren't running scared.
As well, I erred on the side of Leave; and I don't like that May was so pro-remain; I think it shows her poor judgment - as does her voting record throughout parliament in numerous issues.
Back to last night; I don't think either of them shined; I really don't; but Corbyn came out the better because May has hidden herself from the public eye - and this was a big step for her... she really looked shaken at times. Not the picture she wants to paint; that's for sure.
Thought I'd bump this to the next page, as I think it a very good post.
williamp said:
Not a president, but the leader of the party whose MP we voted for is of importance. They do, afterall represent the government in all matters internal and external, will have to argue with Trump, Putin, the EU and others... bring the country together after a terrorist attack, lead the country forward, and will lead their party according to their views (they do form the cabinet, afterall and will always fill posts with those wishing to say "yes").
On every score, you simply cannot vote for Corbyn. He has been aback bencher who refused to tow his party live over 500 tmes, had no role in cabinet but now, as leader things he has the cudos and political clout to lead a country in negotiations??
A man who DOES have links to the IRA despite lying about it. And he cannot answer a straight question on the matter. Who HAS shown support for other terrorist organisations in the past. There is eveyr indication he will do the same in the future.
He cannot- and does not care- that his manifsto can not be costed. He is happy to divide the country along the lines of envy. And rather then work to bring everyone UP to the same level, wants to bring everyone DOWN to the same level. The gutter. And whilst you may want to look at the stars, your own way of achieving this is through party membership. Not off your own back.
We know his future includes Abbott to represent all our affairs at home. And the purse strings will be co ntrolled by the real danger, McDonnell. Happy to say (on camera) that democracy doesn't work and advocates violent insurrection against the British people.
Abd he cannot count, but thinks that "rich businesses" will pay for everything. There wont be any rich businesses after they have finished. There will overseas, but not in this country... (and remember any move oversseas wont be their fault, but they wil say the fault of brexit)
On every score, you simply cannot vote for Corbyn. He has been aback bencher who refused to tow his party live over 500 tmes, had no role in cabinet but now, as leader things he has the cudos and political clout to lead a country in negotiations??
A man who DOES have links to the IRA despite lying about it. And he cannot answer a straight question on the matter. Who HAS shown support for other terrorist organisations in the past. There is eveyr indication he will do the same in the future.
He cannot- and does not care- that his manifsto can not be costed. He is happy to divide the country along the lines of envy. And rather then work to bring everyone UP to the same level, wants to bring everyone DOWN to the same level. The gutter. And whilst you may want to look at the stars, your own way of achieving this is through party membership. Not off your own back.
We know his future includes Abbott to represent all our affairs at home. And the purse strings will be co ntrolled by the real danger, McDonnell. Happy to say (on camera) that democracy doesn't work and advocates violent insurrection against the British people.
Abd he cannot count, but thinks that "rich businesses" will pay for everything. There wont be any rich businesses after they have finished. There will overseas, but not in this country... (and remember any move oversseas wont be their fault, but they wil say the fault of brexit)
LDN said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
///ajd said:
my eyes are open
ironic that some are accusing me of sneering whilst doing that themselves (xjs post)
if you put aside the tribal slasher nonsense for one minute, she did actually reveal something of here hand.
she only ever said "no deal" quickly followed by better than no deal. she also stressed "you have to say that", which revealed (as many have commented), its just a tactic, and a rather transparent pointless one, as she just doesn't believe in no deal.
to give her more credit, she is saying it to placate the brexiteers, and this thread shows she is right to.
everyone of your posts in condescending and arrogant.ironic that some are accusing me of sneering whilst doing that themselves (xjs post)
if you put aside the tribal slasher nonsense for one minute, she did actually reveal something of here hand.
she only ever said "no deal" quickly followed by better than no deal. she also stressed "you have to say that", which revealed (as many have commented), its just a tactic, and a rather transparent pointless one, as she just doesn't believe in no deal.
to give her more credit, she is saying it to placate the brexiteers, and this thread shows she is right to.
Is that what you're saying, it's not clear.
JesusSaves said:
Thought I'd bump this to the next page, as I think it a very good post.
Yes, a good post.williamp said:
Not a president, but the leader of the party whose MP we voted for is of importance. They do, afterall represent the government in all matters internal and external, will have to argue with Trump, Putin, the EU and others... bring the country together after a terrorist attack, lead the country forward, and will lead their party according to their views (they do form the cabinet, afterall and will always fill posts with those wishing to say "yes").
On every score, you simply cannot vote for Corbyn. He has been aback bencher who refused to tow his party live over 500 tmes, had no role in cabinet but now, as leader things he has the cudos and political clout to lead a country in negotiations??
A man who DOES have links to the IRA despite lying about it. And he cannot answer a straight question on the matter. Who HAS shown support for other terrorist organisations in the past. There is eveyr indication he will do the same in the future.
He cannot- and does not care- that his manifsto can not be costed. He is happy to divide the country along the lines of envy. And rather then work to bring everyone UP to the same level, wants to bring everyone DOWN to the same level. The gutter. And whilst you may want to look at the stars, your own way of achieving this is through party membership. Not off your own back.
We know his future includes Abbott to represent all our affairs at home. And the purse strings will be co ntrolled by the real danger, McDonnell. Happy to say (on camera) that democracy doesn't work and advocates violent insurrection against the British people.
Abd he cannot count, but thinks that "rich businesses" will pay for everything. There wont be any rich businesses after they have finished. There will overseas, but not in this country... (and remember any move oversseas wont be their fault, but they wil say the fault of brexit)
On every score, you simply cannot vote for Corbyn. He has been aback bencher who refused to tow his party live over 500 tmes, had no role in cabinet but now, as leader things he has the cudos and political clout to lead a country in negotiations??
A man who DOES have links to the IRA despite lying about it. And he cannot answer a straight question on the matter. Who HAS shown support for other terrorist organisations in the past. There is eveyr indication he will do the same in the future.
He cannot- and does not care- that his manifsto can not be costed. He is happy to divide the country along the lines of envy. And rather then work to bring everyone UP to the same level, wants to bring everyone DOWN to the same level. The gutter. And whilst you may want to look at the stars, your own way of achieving this is through party membership. Not off your own back.
We know his future includes Abbott to represent all our affairs at home. And the purse strings will be co ntrolled by the real danger, McDonnell. Happy to say (on camera) that democracy doesn't work and advocates violent insurrection against the British people.
Abd he cannot count, but thinks that "rich businesses" will pay for everything. There wont be any rich businesses after they have finished. There will overseas, but not in this country... (and remember any move oversseas wont be their fault, but they wil say the fault of brexit)
Paxman was light on Corbyn compared to May and glossed over Corbyn's u-turn on nuclear disarmament - it's his Party's manifesto and there's no mention of it - and cosying up to terrorists, and his u-turn on brexit was hardly given the roasting it deserved. May got the u-turn treatment she deserved but it was extended and although she coped well it wasn't even treatment The man Corbyn cannot be trusted and has presided over policies now in their manifesto that would set the UK back decades.
TomTheTyke said:
ETA: On the debate itself I do think Corbyn looked better, if only because he was reasonable enough to dispel his image as a bumbling buffoon the Sun likes to put across. May does seem to get very flustered and her repeated U turns seem to be coming back to bite her. The main mistake the Tories have made (although I think Abbott apart the Lab campaign has been strong) is to create a personality cult around TM and then realise she can't really engage with people/make a particularly convincing case for her policies.
Interesting analogy. Like a film company desperately betting on a film franchise being created with only one film. (Sony/DCU). These things need to happen organically. May's lack of ability to interact on a human level has been a point for the usual talking heads on DP and TW in the past few weeks. It's been more obvious with this election and the usual rigmarole that goes with one.LDN said:
Burwood said:
LDN not being anti Tory
You'd be surprised Burwood... I realise that things aren't black and white; they're nuanced and complex... unlike most on pistonheads; yourself most certainly included There are things I prefer on the Tory side; most notably; I have a number of businesses - and so, of course; lower corporation tax, and all that goes with it is a plus.
However, Theresa May; long before she became prime minister - has had an abysmal record and I can see that there plan of action, so far, is failing. As well; i've long long known that the Tories put figures on things and get nowhere near them; and so they may as well not bother... which coincidently IS their new tack it seems. Green paper this, consultation that... it could / should / would have be done pre-election if they weren't running scared.
As well, I erred on the side of Leave; and I don't like that May was so pro-remain; I think it shows her poor judgment - as does her voting record throughout parliament in numerous issues.
Back to last night; I don't think either of them shined; I really don't; but Corbyn came out the better because May has hidden herself from the public eye - and this was a big step for her... she really looked shaken at times. Not the picture she wants to paint; that's for sure.
k he won't see power 
I did not not watch the debate, but from what you guys said, why keep on about trident and would you authorise a strike...it's ridiculous to keep pressing the point, just let them say they don't support it and why and leave, the constant character tarring is also annoying. These debates should be about picking apart there manifestos and it's sad to see he was not quizzed more on his idea that bonds is not borrowing etc
ralphrj said:
They aren't incompatible, you've missed out the bit about "day to day spending". You can measure a deficit/surplus 2 ways including or excluding investment (i.e. expenditure of major infrastructure projects).
For example in 2016-17:
Day to day spending aka Current budget deficit £14bn (excluding investment, this is down from £100bn in 2010)
All spending aka Total budget deficit £54bn (including investment, this is down from c.£170bn in 2010)
Labour are saying that they will balance the first one.
Of course, they haven't got a snowballs chance in hell of achieving it. Despite the claims they have costed their manifesto pledges - even the BBC spotted that they had not costed their pledge to provide free childcare to all 2,3,4 and some 1 year olds.
The personal equivalent of this approach is to state you have no debt but have a £250K mortgage because that's an "investment". At some point, the debt must be repaid. For example in 2016-17:
Day to day spending aka Current budget deficit £14bn (excluding investment, this is down from £100bn in 2010)
All spending aka Total budget deficit £54bn (including investment, this is down from c.£170bn in 2010)
Labour are saying that they will balance the first one.
Of course, they haven't got a snowballs chance in hell of achieving it. Despite the claims they have costed their manifesto pledges - even the BBC spotted that they had not costed their pledge to provide free childcare to all 2,3,4 and some 1 year olds.
I don't know why in this day and age, nobody calls out politicians for the use of "investment" instead of "spending". Similarly, "levy" instead of "tax" and don't get me started on using "tax" in the context of either "bedroom" or "dementia" - it plainly isn't a tax.
If politicians can get these lies and falsehoods across to the public and media to the point nobody corrects them, then we deserve all of the other lies and b
ks they tell us.lenny007 said:
...and don't get me started on using "tax" in the context of either "bedroom" or "dementia" - it plainly isn't a tax...
Exactly. With regard to Corbyn's masked targeting of home owners across the country, the Garden Tax is indeed a tax, and at the point of introduction any LVT would confiscate wealth accumulated in the past and likely by more than one person many of whom will not suffer the tax - rather than taxing the accumulation of new wealth at the correct point. Not that I find the latter more palatable as wealth arising from taxed income getting a double hit is as envyist as it gets, but it makes a bit more sense.
sanf said:
SpeedMattersNot said:
sanf said:
I must be going mad, having watched it I thought May came across quite well.
In public she is definitely not a charismatic top draw performer or presenter. She even appears to have a slighty speech impediment - however she doesn't seem afraid to 'fess up' on certain issues and point out hard choices.
Corbyn was calm and composed and offering the moon on a stick, which is simple. Avoided any proper answers and seems to believe action is never ever needed as you can talk your way out of anything.
There seems to be a really surreal choice this election.
One party is lovely, sweet and can spend, spend, spend for the country and only the really rich nasty people who don't work and steal all your money can pay for it. £48 billion deficit, not a problem - let's just borrow more and even before we start three is a £9 billion hole in the finances. All the old lefty terrorist rhetoric is in the past so don't worry. However in the 70's some of them worked in councils, the home office etc. So that experience is key. All is great.
Vs.
The boo hiss nasty meanies, who have decided the country should at least make an effort to live within our means, grow the economy and carry out the will of the people in leaving the EU. The meany party is trying to balance investment in public services - but recognise that this is hard and hard decisions on where limited money should be spent need to be addressed, and discussed despite the belief it's actually because we have shed loads of spare cash (all the rich people have it) so the meanie party don't want to share it with everyone else.
I'm very much a dull centrist floating voter - I like it there, too far either way is just bad - the French and Greeks have shown this just recently veering left - but some how Corbyn seems to have intelligent people believing the utter crap he is spouting.
Maybe I'm out of touch trying to be in the middle!! My one hope is that even my wife - a public sector worker normally centre left / liberal who has grown up hating the tories can see right through Corbyn, thinks he's a knob and quite likes the dull, down to earth boring calmness that is May.
Which public sector does your wife work in? In public she is definitely not a charismatic top draw performer or presenter. She even appears to have a slighty speech impediment - however she doesn't seem afraid to 'fess up' on certain issues and point out hard choices.
Corbyn was calm and composed and offering the moon on a stick, which is simple. Avoided any proper answers and seems to believe action is never ever needed as you can talk your way out of anything.
There seems to be a really surreal choice this election.
One party is lovely, sweet and can spend, spend, spend for the country and only the really rich nasty people who don't work and steal all your money can pay for it. £48 billion deficit, not a problem - let's just borrow more and even before we start three is a £9 billion hole in the finances. All the old lefty terrorist rhetoric is in the past so don't worry. However in the 70's some of them worked in councils, the home office etc. So that experience is key. All is great.
Vs.
The boo hiss nasty meanies, who have decided the country should at least make an effort to live within our means, grow the economy and carry out the will of the people in leaving the EU. The meany party is trying to balance investment in public services - but recognise that this is hard and hard decisions on where limited money should be spent need to be addressed, and discussed despite the belief it's actually because we have shed loads of spare cash (all the rich people have it) so the meanie party don't want to share it with everyone else.
I'm very much a dull centrist floating voter - I like it there, too far either way is just bad - the French and Greeks have shown this just recently veering left - but some how Corbyn seems to have intelligent people believing the utter crap he is spouting.
Maybe I'm out of touch trying to be in the middle!! My one hope is that even my wife - a public sector worker normally centre left / liberal who has grown up hating the tories can see right through Corbyn, thinks he's a knob and quite likes the dull, down to earth boring calmness that is May.
Because it's not the x-factor...it's about which party will look after you, your family and your neighbours the best and if you rely on any public service, whether it be schools for your kids, health services for yourselves, or job security for your wife, it's nothing to do with it being May vs. Corbyn but party vs. party.
It's a no-brainer...surely?
We're realists. It's not perfect but at least trying to balance the books is sensible - just checked and I think the deficit is actually £52 billion (52 thousand million) - down from £152 billion.
Yes public services are stretched, but so is everyone-including the private sector. We keep being told as a country we're not as efficient in our output as other countries. But all the countries services are working - not perfectly but in a way that works with the money the country has.
My wife teaches, it's a tough, tough gig. But is also about the kids and not the teachers, they sure as hell aren't teaching for money. It's a political football teaching - constantly changing. Gove an utter hate figure but Greening (I think that's right) seems to be steadying things and going the right way.
Where we are - child numbers are increasing, the infant school has just had major investment with pupil numbers increasing. My wife's junior school is having £2 million invested in new class rooms ready for the numbers rise. They have just had another non English speaking pupil arrive - 5 this year in 1 class, but are able to get the support needed for these children, translators etc. From the council while they settle in. Resources are there - stretched but there.
Yes it's not perfect, and if the country had loads of spare cash, fair enough. We don't, we're facing the s**t storm that is Brexit and running up an ever increasing deficit is not how to go about trying to get things right - otherwise our grandkids will be looking at us wondering what the hell we did.
I'm happy to admit I'm not the most political person and I may be out of touch, but offering everything to everyone just seems a great way to upset everyone in the long run.
What we think is fair and reasonable (certainly not perfect) reasoning, yes, X Factor reasoning, no chance.
turbobloke said:
footnote said:
So, even with a 'modest' exit fee, Brexit will double the deficit? Nice!
What will the deficit bee at the point of leaving the EU and how much will it actually cost the UK to leave?My crystal ball is out of action so use of yours via PH would be appreciated.
footnote said:
turbobloke said:
footnote said:
So, even with a 'modest' exit fee, Brexit will double the deficit? Nice!
What will the deficit bee at the point of leaving the EU and how much will it actually cost the UK to leave?My crystal ball is out of action so use of yours via PH would be appreciated.
t up you have no point.Burwood said:
footnote said:
turbobloke said:
footnote said:
So, even with a 'modest' exit fee, Brexit will double the deficit? Nice!
What will the deficit bee at the point of leaving the EU and how much will it actually cost the UK to leave?My crystal ball is out of action so use of yours via PH would be appreciated.
t up you have no point.Burwood said:
footnote said:
turbobloke said:
footnote said:
So, even with a 'modest' exit fee, Brexit will double the deficit? Nice!
What will the deficit bee at the point of leaving the EU and how much will it actually cost the UK to leave?My crystal ball is out of action so use of yours via PH would be appreciated.
t up you have no point.Were you not listening to your leader? The echo not reached you yet? No deal is better than a bad deal.
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