Discussion
I have a new business to do just this which I have been working on for a few months.
It is complex, but would massively increase flexibility for both hospitals and social care, and save costs.
Unfortunately, actually getting to decision makers is rather harder in a public sector body like the NHS, so it is a painful process.
They all have approved lists of suppliers who are incentivised to carry on as they are rather than innovate.
Just had a chat with a friend who is a project manager working on infrastructure for the NHS.
Apparently his project was in place in September so now they are just paying him for nothing. He thinks this will run on till March.
Apparently he’s on a day rate so they could just cut him now.
Apparently his project was in place in September so now they are just paying him for nothing. He thinks this will run on till March.
Apparently he’s on a day rate so they could just cut him now.
langtounlad said:
I agree in general and lay the most blame at successive government meddling, underfunding and lack of strategic management.
Political timeframes don't match to health investment cycles (staff and equipment).
The radiology example above is illustrative of the kind of efficiency improvements that should be gained from technology improvements matched to IT and collaborative working across sites.
Too much 'silo' management and failure to invest big and long-term where necessary, and opportunities present themselves, results in stupid outcomes like insufficient staff to operate expensive equipment.
= insular empires, doing their own thing and achieving differing results. Bonkers.Political timeframes don't match to health investment cycles (staff and equipment).
The radiology example above is illustrative of the kind of efficiency improvements that should be gained from technology improvements matched to IT and collaborative working across sites.
Too much 'silo' management and failure to invest big and long-term where necessary, and opportunities present themselves, results in stupid outcomes like insufficient staff to operate expensive equipment.
langtounlad said:
It makes no sense to add an ambiguous post which tells us nothing about what you actually mean.
I asked you, after your first ( IIRC) contribution to this thread, which other system, of all other systems, anywhere in the world, would you rather have here. The comment about simple solution wasn't aimed at you, but at the same people, who time and time again, are coming up with simple solutions to complex problems, while demonstrably not understanding basics.
I guess you, as usual, aimed your petty insult at me.
Last night there was a very interesting discussion in this thread with many good contributions from informed posters. I know a little about this subject, but also learned a lot from constructive contributions from medical experts.
By contrast, you, as ever, try to bring the discussion down to your own base level.
Perhaps, if you think we are misinformed or simple, you should suggest your own solutions, rather than hurling insults.
I rather suspect you can’t and that you are the bloke we all thought was a
at school.My personal system preference, for what that is worth, is to have a properly functioning NHS. My issue with the NHS is that there are too many vested interests and very few of them are aligned with the long term best interests of the patients. I have insight to the NHS via my wife who practices in the community but also has many years hospital working experience.
My critical comments are based on my own senior level management experience in well run organisations. I suspect that the other commentators of which you are critical are also referencing their private sector experience.
Many comments are perhaps stated simply as this is just an internet forum, however in my experience even the most complex problem can be distilled down to a few core issues. Fix them and things start to turn round.
A lot of the frustration of outsiders is that many of the problems are obvious and many would be quickly solved in industry using well proven management techniques. In industry however there is no direct political interference and the staff isn't allowed to complain to the local press if they feel disaffected. There is also, generally speaking, a well defined business strategy and 3 or 5 year plan. Management agrees its budget and then works the plan in line with the budget.
There are many areas of the NHS where this happens also but far too many instances where it doesn't.
My critical comments are based on my own senior level management experience in well run organisations. I suspect that the other commentators of which you are critical are also referencing their private sector experience.
Many comments are perhaps stated simply as this is just an internet forum, however in my experience even the most complex problem can be distilled down to a few core issues. Fix them and things start to turn round.
A lot of the frustration of outsiders is that many of the problems are obvious and many would be quickly solved in industry using well proven management techniques. In industry however there is no direct political interference and the staff isn't allowed to complain to the local press if they feel disaffected. There is also, generally speaking, a well defined business strategy and 3 or 5 year plan. Management agrees its budget and then works the plan in line with the budget.
There are many areas of the NHS where this happens also but far too many instances where it doesn't.
Liokault said:
Just had a chat with a friend who is a project manager working on infrastructure for the NHS.
Apparently his project was in place in September so now they are just paying him for nothing. He thinks this will run on till March.
Apparently he’s on a day rate so they could just cut him now.
IT infrastructure? Apparently his project was in place in September so now they are just paying him for nothing. He thinks this will run on till March.
Apparently he’s on a day rate so they could just cut him now.
loafer123 said:
I guess you, as usual, aimed your petty insult at me.
Last night there was a very interesting discussion in this thread with many good contributions from informed posters. I know a little about this subject, but also learned a lot from constructive contributions from medical experts.
By contrast, you, as ever, try to bring the discussion down to your own base level.
Perhaps, if you think we are misinformed or simple, you should suggest your own solutions, rather than hurling insults.
I rather suspect you can’t and that you are the bloke we all thought was a at school.
Not exclusively at you, but yes, you are included. Last night there was a very interesting discussion in this thread with many good contributions from informed posters. I know a little about this subject, but also learned a lot from constructive contributions from medical experts.
By contrast, you, as ever, try to bring the discussion down to your own base level.
Perhaps, if you think we are misinformed or simple, you should suggest your own solutions, rather than hurling insults.
I rather suspect you can’t and that you are the bloke we all thought was a
at school.I know that I don't have solutions to a complex problem, but I do know that simplistic, one-liners are not.
langtounlad said:
My personal system preference, for what that is worth, is to have a properly functioning NHS. My issue with the NHS is that there are too many vested interests and very few of them are aligned with the long term best interests of the patients. I have insight to the NHS via my wife who practices in the community but also has many years hospital working experience.
My critical comments are based on my own senior level management experience in well run organisations. I suspect that the other commentators of which you are critical are also referencing their private sector experience.
Many comments are perhaps stated simply as this is just an internet forum, however in my experience even the most complex problem can be distilled down to a few core issues. Fix them and things start to turn round.
A lot of the frustration of outsiders is that many of the problems are obvious and many would be quickly solved in industry using well proven management techniques. In industry however there is no direct political interference and the staff isn't allowed to complain to the local press if they feel disaffected. There is also, generally speaking, a well defined business strategy and 3 or 5 year plan. Management agrees its budget and then works the plan in line with the budget.
There are many areas of the NHS where this happens also but far too many instances where it doesn't.
That doesn't answer my question, and comparison with orders of magnitude smaller private sector organizations are inherently flawed. I asked, to repeat once again, is there a health system anywhere in the world, that you'd have here instead of NHS?My critical comments are based on my own senior level management experience in well run organisations. I suspect that the other commentators of which you are critical are also referencing their private sector experience.
Many comments are perhaps stated simply as this is just an internet forum, however in my experience even the most complex problem can be distilled down to a few core issues. Fix them and things start to turn round.
A lot of the frustration of outsiders is that many of the problems are obvious and many would be quickly solved in industry using well proven management techniques. In industry however there is no direct political interference and the staff isn't allowed to complain to the local press if they feel disaffected. There is also, generally speaking, a well defined business strategy and 3 or 5 year plan. Management agrees its budget and then works the plan in line with the budget.
There are many areas of the NHS where this happens also but far too many instances where it doesn't.
jjlynn27 said:
That doesn't answer my question, and comparison with orders of magnitude smaller private sector organizations are inherently flawed. I asked, to repeat once again, is there a health system anywhere in the world, that you'd have here instead of NHS?
Can you think of one clever clogs ?200Plus Club said:
Liokault said:
Just had a chat with a friend who is a project manager working on infrastructure for the NHS.
Apparently his project was in place in September so now they are just paying him for nothing. He thinks this will run on till March.
Apparently he’s on a day rate so they could just cut him now.
IT infrastructure? Apparently his project was in place in September so now they are just paying him for nothing. He thinks this will run on till March.
Apparently he’s on a day rate so they could just cut him now.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Indeed.Table of countries by hospital beds per capita here;
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Hea...
jjlynn27 said:
That doesn't answer my question, and comparison with orders of magnitude smaller private sector organizations are inherently flawed. I asked, to repeat once again, is there a health system anywhere in the world, that you'd have here instead of NHS?
I believe I did answer your question and for clarity I don't want an alternative health system. I want to see the current system work properly. I recognise that the definition of properly means different things to each interested party. You appear to be happy with the status quo and that may well be a carefully considered opinion. To enter properly into any debate however you need to be willing to argue your conclusions, ideally using facts and experience.In reality I doubt that the NHS will really change in my remaining years for all the reasons that l have already outlined.
langtounlad said:
I believe I did answer your question and for clarity I don't want an alternative health system. I want to see the current system work properly. I recognise that the definition of properly means different things to each interested party. You appear to be happy with the status quo and that may well be a carefully considered opinion. To enter properly into any debate however you need to be willing to argue your conclusions, ideally using facts and experience.
In reality I doubt that the NHS will really change in my remaining years for all the reasons that l have already outlined.
Without an identical system elsewhere working more optimally, how do we know the NHS isn't working as well as it can ever be expected to in its current format?In reality I doubt that the NHS will really change in my remaining years for all the reasons that l have already outlined.
I suspect it's way too large. Diseconomies of scale are at play and its client base and science is actively working against it - living longer, able to fix more so people live longer. Recipe for disaster.
It needs scaling right back to the basics and leave everything else to private provision if people want it, but that will never sell to the electorate.
langtounlad said:
jjlynn27 said:
That doesn't answer my question, and comparison with orders of magnitude smaller private sector organizations are inherently flawed. I asked, to repeat once again, is there a health system anywhere in the world, that you'd have here instead of NHS?
I believe I did answer your question and for clarity I don't want an alternative health system. I want to see the current system work properly. I recognise that the definition of properly means different things to each interested party. You appear to be happy with the status quo and that may well be a carefully considered opinion. To enter properly into any debate however you need to be willing to argue your conclusions, ideally using facts and experience.In reality I doubt that the NHS will really change in my remaining years for all the reasons that l have already outlined.
This is what experts think (leading think-tank in the field);
These are facts and my experiences.
I don't think that NHS is perfect, but I think given the circumstances, it's exceptional, even allowing for its failings.
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