NHS spending

[JagLover]

hidetheelephants said:

Legalise dope, sit back and collect the revenue. Next problem.

Certainly better than fuel duty hikes, but that would take some courage and imagination and May has neither.

[Burwood]

REALIST123 said:

BlackLabel said:

Marr: How will you pay for the £20bn NHS cash boost?
May: "We will be contributing more as a country."

Tax rises on the way then.

Let’s trust they’re levied only on the people who’ve caused the increased demand.

Yes, I know that’s a forlorn hope but I’ll be doing everything possible to avoid any tax increases.

I’ve read it’s the young who drain the NHS. Alcohol related, fighting, STDs, car accidents. It’s not the old and fat and ciggy smokers, which is what I did think before looking for facts.

I like a drink but would be ok if they whacked a bigger tax on booze, cigs. Increase arrival taxes a modest amount.

[captain_cynic]

Burwood said:

I’ve read it’s the young who drain the NHS. Alcohol related, fighting, STDs, car accidents. It’s not the old and fat and ciggy smokers, which is what I did think before looking for facts.

I like a drink but would be ok if they whacked a bigger tax on booze, cigs. Increase arrival taxes a modest amount.

Where did you read that, the DM?

For every £1 a 20-30 yr old costs the NHS, a 60 yr old costs £2 and an 80 yr old costs £6.

The problem the NHS has is that life expectancy has skyrocketed (victims of their own success).



Source: The horses mouth.

But nice attempt at a "Yoof of today" rant.

[over_the_hill]

Also there are also a lot more things that are treatable now - usually at large expense.
Forty or fifty years ago it would have been "sorry - we can't do much for you, it might be an idea to get your affairs in order."

However, on inefficiency and waste I have an appointment some way off in the future (minor stuff). Last week I arrived home to
find two letters on the doormat.

1) My appointment had been cancelled (no big deal)
2) A new appointment has been booked for you on ...

Would it be really that difficult to combine these into one letter ?

[captain_cynic]

over_the_hill said:

1) My appointment had been cancelled (no big deal)
2) A new appointment has been booked for you on ...

Would it be really that difficult to combine these into one letter ?

Both would have been sent by automated systems these days. So the question is, what is the cost of upgrading the system (new software, training, error rate) compared to the waste of the current system.

I grant you sending two letters seems a bit pants on head retarded, but sometimes you create more waste by trying to fix small inefficiencies.

I think snail mail an inefficient and pointless waste for sending me appointment details, email and/or SMS will be faster, cheaper and it really doesn't matter if I get one or two. If given the choice I will (or have) opted out of having appointment details mailed to me.

I think the NHS does need to be scaled back and the govt needs to permit private surgeries to do more elective procedures outside the NHS (as in no govt funding for them).

[Burwood]

captain_cynic said:

Burwood said:

I’ve read it’s the young who drain the NHS. Alcohol related, fighting, STDs, car accidents. It’s not the old and fat and ciggy smokers, which is what I did think before looking for facts.

I like a drink but would be ok if they whacked a bigger tax on booze, cigs. Increase arrival taxes a modest amount.

Where did you read that, the DM?

For every £1 a 20-30 yr old costs the NHS, a 60 yr old costs £2 and an 80 yr old costs £6.

The problem the NHS has is that life expectancy has skyrocketed (victims of their own success).



Source: The horses mouth.

But nice attempt at a "Yoof of today" rant.

A rant you say. The figures you show are per person. Over 65s cost more per treatment. 20% of population but 40% of the nhs spend. Under 65s 80% of population and 60% spend.

I was countering the ‘oldies draining nhs should pay more’ they have paid already. The pension in the U.K. is terribly low as it is.

[captain_cynic]

Burwood said:

A rant you say. <b>The figures you show are per person.</b> Over 65s cost more per treatment. 20% of population but 40% of the nhs spend. Under 65s 80% of population and 60% spend.

I was countering the ‘oldies draining nhs should pay more’ they have paid already. The pension in the U.K. is terribly low as it is.

Actually, they are per age group. Not per person.

So that's all 65 yr olds, not per 65 yr old.

[randlemarcus]

Burwood said:

A rant you say. The figures you show are per person. Over 65s cost more per treatment. 20% of population but 40% of the nhs spend. Under 65s 80% of population and 60% spend.

I was countering the ‘oldies draining nhs should pay more’ they have paid already. The pension in the U.K. is terribly low as it is.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/12178150/More-people-in-their-70s-in-higher-tax-bracket-than-those-in-their-thirties.html

Nah, feck em

[Burwood]

captain_cynic said:

Burwood said:

A rant you say. <b>The figures you show are per person.</b> Over 65s cost more per treatment. 20% of population but 40% of the nhs spend. Under 65s 80% of population and 60% spend.

I was countering the ‘oldies draining nhs should pay more’ they have paid already. The pension in the U.K. is terribly low as it is.

Actually, they are per age group. Not per person.

So that's all 65 yr olds, not per 65 yr old.

I’m happy to be corrected. It wasn’t a rant.

[BlackLabel]

"Britain’s fiscal watchdog will warn on Tuesday that Theresa May’s unfunded commitment to spend more on the National Health Service has piled pressure on public finances, underscoring the need for higher taxes.

In its biennial Fiscal Sustainability Report, the Office for Budget Responsibility will say that the prime minister’s pledge to spend billions more on the NHS has left an even larger hole in the long-term outlook for government borrowing than when the OBR published its last assessment 18 months ago."

https://www.ft.com/content/0d0fd902-88fe-11e8-b18d...

Google search "NHS pledge raises pressure for higher taxes, warns OBR" to bypass the paywall.

According to the BBC economic editor:

"June NHS spending announcement projected to add 57.9% to UK’s net debt by 2068. @OBR_UK calls it “as yet unfunded”"

https://twitter.com/bbckamal/status/10191483196486...

[V8 Fettler]

BlackLabel said:

"Britain’s fiscal watchdog will warn on Tuesday that Theresa May’s unfunded commitment to spend more on the National Health Service has piled pressure on public finances, underscoring the need for higher taxes.

In its biennial Fiscal Sustainability Report, the Office for Budget Responsibility will say that the prime minister’s pledge to spend billions more on the NHS has left an even larger hole in the long-term outlook for government borrowing than when the OBR published its last assessment 18 months ago."

https://www.ft.com/content/0d0fd902-88fe-11e8-b18d...

Google search "NHS pledge raises pressure for higher taxes, warns OBR" to bypass the paywall.

According to the BBC economic editor:

"June NHS spending announcement projected to add 57.9% to UK’s net debt by 2068. @OBR_UK calls it “as yet unfunded”"

https://twitter.com/bbckamal/status/10191483196486...

Boost GDP per capita, although this is probably beyond the ability of politicians.

[JagLover]

Well the NHS must have all the resources it needs as the BMA wants to stop charging health tourists.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/25/sc...

[spaximus]

JagLover said:

Well the NHS must have all the resources it needs as the BMA wants to stop charging health tourists.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/25/sc...

Just a small section, that is all. These are the people who make a lot of noise and equate stopping health tourists being racist and nationalistic. they are idiots of the highest order

[Baby Shark doo doo doo doo]

spaximus said:

JagLover said:

Well the NHS must have all the resources it needs as the BMA wants to stop charging health tourists.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/25/sc...

Just a small section, that is all. These are the people who make a lot of noise and equate stopping health tourists being racist and nationalistic. they are idiots of the highest order

Unfortunately the loud ones are usually listened to.

[biggbn]

Boris wants to increase nhs spending....

[GroundEffect]

Even the US aren't callous enough to demand upfront payment...

[piquet]

JagLover said:

Well the NHS must have all the resources it needs as the BMA wants to stop charging health tourists.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/25/sc...

Ignore the BMA

The primary purpose of the BMA is to look after itself, i've been to BMA events where the upper echelons spend the members money like water on food, wine, accommodation was just shocked at the spending because "it's ok the BMA is paying"

The deal the BMA with GP out of hours was done knowing that to make not so cheap for the GPs to give up being on call it was a no brainer to quit and leave it to someone else.The result the out of hours cover is now almost non existent and in one year A&E attendances went up 20%, that and no government would ever trust them again.

With the junior doctors strike, it was not escalated when the contract was enforced because barroom deals were done for those high up with well paying non jobs and knighthoods etc, the carpet was pulled from under the junior doctor negotiating team. I was told this by a colleague who was part of the team.

This is a group of career BMA representatives with their eyes on the prize, ignore them

[captain_cynic]

GroundEffect said:

Even the US aren't callous enough to demand upfront payment...

This, All the article is saying is that it shouldn't be the doctors job to determine if a patient should be charged for treatment... and well, it isn't.

Having someone determine at the clinic/hospital level whether you need to pay an up front cost will require another role to be added to every clinic/hospital, which increases inefficiency.

If a patient is going to be charged (and not every foreigner is, the UK has reciprocal health care agreements with multiple nations) let it be sorted out later and let the doctors get on with being doctors instead of accountants or whatever.

[spaximus]

GroundEffect said:

Even the US aren't callous enough to demand upfront payment...

Well unfortunately I have had need for US hospitals and at everyone I was asked for card details before getting past reception.

They do not do that for life threatening conditions and the NHS is the same. However when you have a patient rock up out of taxi in A&E from India, complete with scans from his oncology specialist should no one challenge that?

This is not a made up story it was my Daughter who got the see this man in A&E should we be expected to pay for that treatment? It should be done at reception by people who are told to do it.

I would go further and make any passenger carrier ensure that anyone coming to the UK has adequate medical insurance as part of the ticket sales would stop health tourism in a flash

[JagLover]

spaximus said:

I would go further and make any passenger carrier ensure that anyone coming to the UK has adequate medical insurance as part of the ticket sales would stop health tourism in a flash

A number of countries already require this.