Discussion
captain_cynic said:
GroundEffect said:
Even the US aren't callous enough to demand upfront payment...
This, All the article is saying is that it shouldn't be the doctors job to determine if a patient should be charged for treatment... and well, it isn't. Having someone determine at the clinic/hospital level whether you need to pay an up front cost will require another role to be added to every clinic/hospital, which increases inefficiency.
If a patient is going to be charged (and not every foreigner is, the UK has reciprocal health care agreements with multiple nations) let it be sorted out later and let the doctors get on with being doctors instead of accountants or whatever.
Spaximus is correct.
Murph7355 said:
captain_cynic said:
GroundEffect said:
Even the US aren't callous enough to demand upfront payment...
This, All the article is saying is that it shouldn't be the doctors job to determine if a patient should be charged for treatment... and well, it isn't. Having someone determine at the clinic/hospital level whether you need to pay an up front cost will require another role to be added to every clinic/hospital, which increases inefficiency.
If a patient is going to be charged (and not every foreigner is, the UK has reciprocal health care agreements with multiple nations) let it be sorted out later and let the doctors get on with being doctors instead of accountants or whatever.
Spaximus is correct.
As always, you don't consider the actual cost in your ideological crusade. How much will it cost the NHS to check everyone is chargable or not at the front gate? Contrast that to how much it allegedly costs for medical tourism. The cost of putting in one full time admin for charging patients into every hospital and clinic will dwarf it.
Besides, again it's not the doctors or even the NHS's responsibility to identify and track people travelling to the UK for deferred medical procedures. That one comes down to UKVI (that's UK Visas and Immigration).
captain_cynic said:
Nope, you are quite incorrect. The US doesn't charge up front for emergency care.
As always, you don't consider the actual cost in your ideological crusade. How much will it cost the NHS to check everyone is chargable or not at the front gate? Contrast that to how much it allegedly costs for medical tourism. The cost of putting in one full time admin for charging patients into every hospital and clinic will dwarf it.
Besides, again it's not the doctors or even the NHS's responsibility to identify and track people travelling to the UK for deferred medical procedures. That one comes down to UKVI (that's UK Visas and Immigration).
I can tell you exactly how much it cots because it was a job i used to do. The job was a Band 5 position in the Trust i used to work at and using the latest pay scales, Band 5 pay ranges from 24k - 30K, co-incidentally the same pay as 1 qualified nurse.As always, you don't consider the actual cost in your ideological crusade. How much will it cost the NHS to check everyone is chargable or not at the front gate? Contrast that to how much it allegedly costs for medical tourism. The cost of putting in one full time admin for charging patients into every hospital and clinic will dwarf it.
Besides, again it's not the doctors or even the NHS's responsibility to identify and track people travelling to the UK for deferred medical procedures. That one comes down to UKVI (that's UK Visas and Immigration).
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Of course they don’t, and wouldn’t. Neither would the individuals concerned. Health tourists aren’t as naive as some in this forum seem to be.
And as for checking entitlement there are plenty of other areas that proof of entitlement is needed, doesn’t seem to be an issue much outside the NHS.
There'll never be enough money for the NHS as long as it is run by the current bunch of incompetents. All the talk of change is a charade and smokescreen. The biggest changes need to take place at a management level and we know turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Yes, non emergency treatment should be declined without prior payment and as for the admin cost of recovery, it surely wouldn't be difficult to sub that out like other debt collection.
JagLover said:
Well the NHS must have all the resources it needs as the BMA wants to stop charging health tourists.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/25/sc...
That's pretty damn awful. I can't even get to see my own Dr for 3 weeks and have had to pay a private Dr 275 quid to see me. Great! https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/25/sc...
PorkRind said:
JagLover said:
Well the NHS must have all the resources it needs as the BMA wants to stop charging health tourists.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/25/sc...
That's pretty damn awful. I can't even get to see my own Dr for 3 weeks and have had to pay a private Dr 275 quid to see me. Great! https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/25/sc...
GroundEffect said:
Even the US aren't callous enough to demand upfront payment...
My wife has to pay a NHS Surcharge upfront as part of her long term spouse visa. She also pays full tax etc...If she has to, why can't these tourists and illegals immigrants? Oh yeah, going through the correct channels is the route to bend over and get bumf
ked.captain_cynic said:
Murph7355 said:
captain_cynic said:
GroundEffect said:
Even the US aren't callous enough to demand upfront payment...
This, All the article is saying is that it shouldn't be the doctors job to determine if a patient should be charged for treatment... and well, it isn't. Having someone determine at the clinic/hospital level whether you need to pay an up front cost will require another role to be added to every clinic/hospital, which increases inefficiency.
If a patient is going to be charged (and not every foreigner is, the UK has reciprocal health care agreements with multiple nations) let it be sorted out later and let the doctors get on with being doctors instead of accountants or whatever.
Spaximus is correct.
As always, you don't consider the actual cost in your ideological crusade. How much will it cost the NHS to check everyone is chargable or not at the front gate? Contrast that to how much it allegedly costs for medical tourism. The cost of putting in one full time admin for charging patients into every hospital and clinic will dwarf it.
Besides, again it's not the doctors or even the NHS's responsibility to identify and track people travelling to the UK for deferred medical procedures. That one comes down to UKVI (that's UK Visas and Immigration).
I am intrigued how UKVI would be able to discover health Tourists, question, are you coming to have medical treatment answer no would get them in.
It is simple but the British are rubbish at collecting cash from other EU countries and people use the same argument it is not cost effective, it works pretty well everywhere else and we as usual cough up on demand.
It is not the medics job, if you paid the right people to do the job in reception, not additional people it would save money.
captain_cynic said:
Nope, you are quite incorrect. The US doesn't charge up front for emergency care.
As always, you don't consider the actual cost in your ideological crusade. How much will it cost the NHS to check everyone is chargable or not at the front gate? Contrast that to how much it allegedly costs for medical tourism. The cost of putting in one full time admin for charging patients into every hospital and clinic will dwarf it.
Besides, again it's not the doctors or even the NHS's responsibility to identify and track people travelling to the UK for deferred medical procedures. That one comes down to UKVI (that's UK Visas and Immigration).
With respect, I do not believe the article was referring to emergency care. So that scenario is irrelevant. As always, you don't consider the actual cost in your ideological crusade. How much will it cost the NHS to check everyone is chargable or not at the front gate? Contrast that to how much it allegedly costs for medical tourism. The cost of putting in one full time admin for charging patients into every hospital and clinic will dwarf it.
Besides, again it's not the doctors or even the NHS's responsibility to identify and track people travelling to the UK for deferred medical procedures. That one comes down to UKVI (that's UK Visas and Immigration).
As for the costs... Then bake the administration costs into the fees given to those from overseas to ensure it is cost neutral (at worst). If it's an emergency they will be fine. If it isn't they should have insurance to cover it or won't come here in need of treatment.
Anyone who is working in public service has a responsibility to ensure that service is not being used. If doctors don't want to check (and I agree it should not be their job) get the accounts team to do it.
And I agree that immigration should be ensuring visitors have appropriate insurance cover.
It is not acceptable that an already stretched service is being used for free by tourists. And I don't much care whether it's 1 or 10,000 doing so.
Murph7355 said:
captain_cynic said:
Nope, you are quite incorrect. The US doesn't charge up front for emergency care.
As always, you don't consider the actual cost in your ideological crusade. How much will it cost the NHS to check everyone is chargable or not at the front gate? Contrast that to how much it allegedly costs for medical tourism. The cost of putting in one full time admin for charging patients into every hospital and clinic will dwarf it.
Besides, again it's not the doctors or even the NHS's responsibility to identify and track people travelling to the UK for deferred medical procedures. That one comes down to UKVI (that's UK Visas and Immigration).
With respect, I do not believe the article was referring to emergency care. So that scenario is irrelevant. As always, you don't consider the actual cost in your ideological crusade. How much will it cost the NHS to check everyone is chargable or not at the front gate? Contrast that to how much it allegedly costs for medical tourism. The cost of putting in one full time admin for charging patients into every hospital and clinic will dwarf it.
Besides, again it's not the doctors or even the NHS's responsibility to identify and track people travelling to the UK for deferred medical procedures. That one comes down to UKVI (that's UK Visas and Immigration).
As for the costs... Then bake the administration costs into the fees given to those from overseas to ensure it is cost neutral (at worst). If it's an emergency they will be fine. If it isn't they should have insurance to cover it or won't come here in need of treatment.
Anyone who is working in public service has a responsibility to ensure that service is not being used. If doctors don't want to check (and I agree it should not be their job) get the accounts team to do it.
And I agree that immigration should be ensuring visitors have appropriate insurance cover.
It is not acceptable that an already stretched service is being used for free by tourists. And I don't much care whether it's 1 or 10,000 doing so.
Burwood said:
It’s something I’ve thought about regularly. I don’t sound English. I am but lived abroad when I was young and have a thick accent. I’ve never been asked any questions about my status when using various NHS services such as walk in A&E. I’d think it a perfectly reasonable question.
Surely they get some basic info off you on arrival and from that pull up your NHS number? Perhaps it's done so subtly that you don't even notice, and they'd only raise status as an issue if they couldn't find you.Sheepshanks said:
Burwood said:
It’s something I’ve thought about regularly. I don’t sound English. I am but lived abroad when I was young and have a thick accent. I’ve never been asked any questions about my status when using various NHS services such as walk in A&E. I’d think it a perfectly reasonable question.
Surely they get some basic info off you on arrival and from that pull up your NHS number?Burwood said:
Sheepshanks said:
Burwood said:
It’s something I’ve thought about regularly. I don’t sound English. I am but lived abroad when I was young and have a thick accent. I’ve never been asked any questions about my status when using various NHS services such as walk in A&E. I’d think it a perfectly reasonable question.
Surely they get some basic info off you on arrival and from that pull up your NHS number?Burwood said:
I know for a fact when I’ve been in A&E before they just treated me. I do have a NHS number. Maybe they checked post treatment.
A&E treatment is ALWAYS funded by the NHS. There are no exceptions. Same as a GP appointment. Any person present in the UK (legally or not) can get medical care from a GP or A&E without proving entitlement.Things are different for hospital stays and clinic appointments, where certain restrictions on coverage apply.
So, if you had gone to A&E and needed to stay in hospital, additional identity checks would have been performed, to ensure you were covered.
WatchfulEye said:
Burwood said:
I know for a fact when I’ve been in A&E before they just treated me. I do have a NHS number. Maybe they checked post treatment.
A&E treatment is ALWAYS funded by the NHS. There are no exceptions. Same as a GP appointment. Any person present in the UK (legally or not) can get medical care from a GP or A&E without proving entitlement.Things are different for hospital stays and clinic appointments, where certain restrictions on coverage apply.
So, if you had gone to A&E and needed to stay in hospital, additional identity checks would have been performed, to ensure you were covered.
Burwood said:
PorkRind said:
JagLover said:
Well the NHS must have all the resources it needs as the BMA wants to stop charging health tourists.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/25/sc...
That's pretty damn awful. I can't even get to see my own Dr for 3 weeks and have had to pay a private Dr 275 quid to see me. Great! https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/25/sc...
Still more work = more money. Can earn a fair amount doing private clinics and work on Fridays for the private hospitals which as the guy above is happy to pay for or rather has no choice.
BlackLabel said:
Time to revisit this topic perhaps?
What will nhs funding look like in a post covid world?
The pandemic has been good news for nhs accountants with the government writing off billions of pounds of nhs debt and promising billions more in funding.
Same as it always has - ever upwards.What will nhs funding look like in a post covid world?
The pandemic has been good news for nhs accountants with the government writing off billions of pounds of nhs debt and promising billions more in funding.
“ Boris Johnson has been warned he must give the NHS more money and not pursue a “have our cake and eat it” policy of thinking it can deliver Covid care within existing budgets.
The plea came from Chris Hopson, the leader of England’s hospital bosses, who said the extra £20.5bn the NHS was promised in 2018 was no longer enough to let it do its job.
The extra demands caused by the pandemic, and the Conservative election manifesto commitments to improve the NHS meant that settlement had to be revisited in the forthcoming comprehensive spending review, Hopson said.”
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/oct/06/nh...
The plea came from Chris Hopson, the leader of England’s hospital bosses, who said the extra £20.5bn the NHS was promised in 2018 was no longer enough to let it do its job.
The extra demands caused by the pandemic, and the Conservative election manifesto commitments to improve the NHS meant that settlement had to be revisited in the forthcoming comprehensive spending review, Hopson said.”
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/oct/06/nh...
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff