Evidence of General Election Voting Fraud
Discussion
“There were concerns that influence and intimidation within households may not be reported, and that state institutions had turned a blind eye to such behaviour because of ‘politically correct’ over-sensitivities about ethnicity and religion,” his report said."
Officialdumb is pussyfooting all over this issue. Take this extract from a report by the Electoral Commission (iirc it was the EC).
Did somebody mention politically correct over-sensitivity? There was an outbreak at the electoral commission some time ago. Hopefully the Home Sec has found the antidote already, she'll be preoccupied by another antidote at the mo.
Officialdumb is pussyfooting all over this issue. Take this extract from a report by the Electoral Commission (iirc it was the EC).
Snip from Report said:
...some changes we want to see made to existing processes in order to make postal and proxy voting more secure, including continued urgent action by ROs and police forces in areas where there is a higher risk of allegations of electoral fraud...
Hmmm areas where there is a higher risk of allegations - don't mention fraud, just the allegations, and ffs don't name the areas at greater risk.Did somebody mention politically correct over-sensitivity? There was an outbreak at the electoral commission some time ago. Hopefully the Home Sec has found the antidote already, she'll be preoccupied by another antidote at the mo.
ZedLeg said:
Has there been any actual proof of widespread electoral fraud? the linked articles have a lot of reports and allegations but seem a little light on actual evidence.
Apparently there has been a single conviction. On your second point, it wouldn't.austinsmirk said:
Mr Pickles, from Keighley, said pressure was being put on vulnerable members of some ethnic minority communities to vote according to the will of elders, especially in communities with a Pakistani or Bangladeshi background.
“There were concerns that influence and intimidation within households may not be reported, and that state institutions had turned a blind eye to such behaviour because of ‘politically correct’ over-sensitivities about ethnicity and religion,” his report said."
How would demanding ID stop this happening?“There were concerns that influence and intimidation within households may not be reported, and that state institutions had turned a blind eye to such behaviour because of ‘politically correct’ over-sensitivities about ethnicity and religion,” his report said."
While I'm here, and apologies if this has already been asked , but if Photo ID is to become
mandatory, will the government be supplying the appropriate documents free of charge
to anyone that cannot afford them?
paulrockliffe said:
CambsBill said:
paulrockliffe said:
Off-topic but there's so much joined up identification data held via the Government Gateway, including verified photo cross-referencing between passport and driving licenses, that ID Cards pretty much exist now, just not the physical card bit. The benefits of getting this all joined up and working would be huge, both in terms of ease of access to public services, joined-up state understanding of society and in reduced administration costs.
So there's the answer in a nutshell - poling stations are provided with laptops and bar code readers and voting forms have a barcode on them. Voter presents themselves, the barcode is scanned and the poling officer gets immediate visual confirmation of the voters ID from whichever database has it. For those not on a database, the voting form has a nice easy instruction in big, bold print that says that they do have to bring formal ID with them.Similarly, postal vote duplicates are avoided by the simple expedient of only allowing one voting opportunity per NI number.
I'm happy to quote for the implementation of this - bargain price of £5billion. I can start tomorrow
There's nothing so disenfranchising as having to go out of your way to vote surely?
The state has been determined to impose ID cards for ages and now, on the basis of one conviction, they'll finally get their way. Of course, they'll happily provide photo ID to anyone who doesn't have a passport or driving licence and then a couple of years down the line, they'll wheel out the national ID cards argument again, probably around immigration or benefit fraud or NHS entitlement abuse, or all three, and there'll be no scope to argue against it as everybody already needs ID to vote...
One way or another, they always get what they want.
Interestingly, my feeling is it'll affect more Tory voters than Labour.
On the basis that the elderly are more ardent voters, and of course, it's well known you get more right wing as you get older
but you also generally give up driving eventually and overseas travel takes a backseat.
Lots of 80 years + voters won't have a passport or driving licence, and if they get turned away from a polling station, they might not have the legs to make it back. They might also take the righteous hump, in the 'we built this country and this is the thanks we get' kind of way, and choose to punish the Tories by voting Labour...
I live in hope.
One way or another, they always get what they want.
Interestingly, my feeling is it'll affect more Tory voters than Labour.
On the basis that the elderly are more ardent voters, and of course, it's well known you get more right wing as you get older
but you also generally give up driving eventually and overseas travel takes a backseat.Lots of 80 years + voters won't have a passport or driving licence, and if they get turned away from a polling station, they might not have the legs to make it back. They might also take the righteous hump, in the 'we built this country and this is the thanks we get' kind of way, and choose to punish the Tories by voting Labour...
I live in hope.
Murph7355 said:
sidicks said:
mx5nut said:
I've not even taken so much as a polling card along the last few times - never had a problem proving who I am.
How did you prove who you were?irememberyou said:
Lots of 80 years + voters won't have a passport or driving licence, and if they get turned away from a polling station, they might not have the legs to make it back. They might also take the righteous hump, in the 'we built this country and this is the thanks we get' kind of way, and choose to punish the Tories by voting Labour...
I live in hope.
They'll all have a bus pass, which has a photo on itI live in hope.
Russian Troll Bot said:
irememberyou said:
Lots of 80 years + voters won't have a passport or driving licence, and if they get turned away from a polling station, they might not have the legs to make it back. They might also take the righteous hump, in the 'we built this country and this is the thanks we get' kind of way, and choose to punish the Tories by voting Labour...
I live in hope.
They'll all have a bus pass, which has a photo on itI live in hope.
I do know that once your legs get wobbley, you stop using the bus too.
And it's just as easy to forget your bus pass...
All for one conviction?
Or, all just a back door to national ID cards?
The point is, the number of elderly, or indeed any voters, turned away for lack of correct ID will inevitably outnumber the number of people convicted of election fraud.
But introducing voter ID is not about eliminating election fraud.
The system has always been open to abuse. The ER is compiled locally by the LA and not checked nationally so any number of Mickey Mouses and Donald Ducks will appear on the register. Students are a problem as their location changes throughout the year. The voter doesn't even need their poll card. They just verbally supply their name and address. The proscribed questions are only asked when there are reasons to suspect impersonation has happened. This is all before we get to postal votes where in some northern towns there were reports of votes being delivered in carrier bags. The Labour government relaxed the rules on postal votes to allow anyone to vote that way rather than those who needed to for reasons of absence or mobility. This left the door open to fraud.
Any attempt to clean up democracy is to be welcomed as there are so many ways to cheat the system. Democracy is too important to allow such loopholes.
It is interesting to see who on this thread wants to keep the status quo, as poor as it is. What have they got to fear from democracy?
Any attempt to clean up democracy is to be welcomed as there are so many ways to cheat the system. Democracy is too important to allow such loopholes.
It is interesting to see who on this thread wants to keep the status quo, as poor as it is. What have they got to fear from democracy?
Supercilious Sid said:
The system has always been open to abuse. The ER is compiled locally by the LA and not checked nationally so any number of Mickey Mouses and Donald Ducks will appear on the register. Students are a problem as their location changes throughout the year. The voter doesn't even need their poll card. They just verbally supply their name and address. The proscribed questions are only asked when there are reasons to suspect impersonation has happened. This is all before we get to postal votes where in some northern towns there were reports of votes being delivered in carrier bags. The Labour government relaxed the rules on postal votes to allow anyone to vote that way rather than those who needed to for reasons of absence or mobility. This left the door open to fraud.
Any attempt to clean up democracy is to be welcomed as there are so many ways to cheat the system. Democracy is too important to allow such loopholes.
It is interesting to see who on this thread wants to keep the status quo, as poor as it is. What have they got to fear from democracy?
Since when has forcing people to have ID cards been considered democratic.Any attempt to clean up democracy is to be welcomed as there are so many ways to cheat the system. Democracy is too important to allow such loopholes.
It is interesting to see who on this thread wants to keep the status quo, as poor as it is. What have they got to fear from democracy?
If tha majority of the British public shared your view, would not ID cards have
been mandatory some time ago?
Edited to add. And you can f
k right off with your accusations of anti democracy.Edited by gooner1 on Wednesday 7th March 17:47
gooner1 said:
Since when has forcing people to have ID cards been considered democratic.
If tha majority of the British public shared your view, would not ID cards have
been manatory some time ago?
Th
It is nothing to do with ID cards. Photographic proof is required for many things in life today. Everyone will have it in one form or another. If tha majority of the British public shared your view, would not ID cards have
been manatory some time ago?
Th
To put it simply, voting at the moment is unauditable. There is no way to tell who has voted or whether they are actually allowed to vote. Democracy is way too important to allow votes to be 'about right'. They need to be accurate down to the individual person and that needs to be traceable.
Supercilious Sid said:
It is nothing to do with ID cards. Photographic proof is required for many things in life today. Everyone will have it in one form or another.
To put it simply, voting at the moment is unauditable. There is no way to tell who has voted or whether they are actually allowed to vote. Democracy is way too important to allow votes to be 'about right'. They need to be accurate down to the individual person and that needs to be traceable.
They are already.To put it simply, voting at the moment is unauditable. There is no way to tell who has voted or whether they are actually allowed to vote. Democracy is way too important to allow votes to be 'about right'. They need to be accurate down to the individual person and that needs to be traceable.
Supercilious Sid said:
It is nothing to do with ID cards. Photographic proof is required for many things in life today. Everyone will have it in one form or another.
To put it simply, voting at the moment is unauditable. There is no way to tell who has voted or whether they are actually allowed to vote. Democracy is way too important to allow votes to be 'about right'. They need to be accurate down to the individual person and that needs to be traceable.
Give me an example of a rigged GE, or even a suspected one.To put it simply, voting at the moment is unauditable. There is no way to tell who has voted or whether they are actually allowed to vote. Democracy is way too important to allow votes to be 'about right'. They need to be accurate down to the individual person and that needs to be traceable.
gooner1 said:
Give me an example of a rigged GE, or even a suspected one.
The point is that elections are open to fraud regardless of whether it has been proven to happen. Those open doors need to be closed.Even the professionals know this process for democracy isn't working.
Here is a quote from an article on the BBC website about electoral fraud.
" Ray Morgan, who is also the chief executive of Woking Borough Council, said: 'I don't think any election that I've personally officiated over since 2006 has been totally fair and honest.'
Funny how all the Tories and Hard Brexit types are now cooing over ID cards when back in 2006 they were all staunchly against them, when Jack Straw tried to introduce them.
Here's what The Telegraph said:
"What are the main objections?
The principal objections to ID cards is that they are an infringement of the citizen's right to remain anonymous if he chooses. They give the state powers it has only ever had before in wartime. There is no evidence they provide additional security for citizens. And the benefits are outweighed by privacy and data protection considerations. An ID scheme would also be hugely expensive. The last official estimate, in 1996, put the cost of setting up a national registration data base at £600 million and annual running costs at up to £100 million. More recent, though unofficial, estimates have suggested setting up a scheme could cost £1 billion."
Me, I look forward to being asked for my ID card by one of our friendly British bobbies on the beat. I'll be able to pretend that I'm French and whistle La Marseillaise as he gives me a jolly good truncheoning for being "sans papier". Better still, I won't feel so bad about leaving that horrible, authoritarian, EU with all it's socialist rules and regulations.
All together now....
Allons enfants de la Patrie,
Le jour de gloire est arrivé!
Contre nous de la tyrannie,
L'étendard sanglant est levé, (bis)
Entendez-vous dans les campagnes
Mugir ces féroces soldats?
Ils viennent jusque dans vos bras
Égorger vos fils, vos compagnes!
Here's what The Telegraph said:
"What are the main objections?
The principal objections to ID cards is that they are an infringement of the citizen's right to remain anonymous if he chooses. They give the state powers it has only ever had before in wartime. There is no evidence they provide additional security for citizens. And the benefits are outweighed by privacy and data protection considerations. An ID scheme would also be hugely expensive. The last official estimate, in 1996, put the cost of setting up a national registration data base at £600 million and annual running costs at up to £100 million. More recent, though unofficial, estimates have suggested setting up a scheme could cost £1 billion."
Me, I look forward to being asked for my ID card by one of our friendly British bobbies on the beat. I'll be able to pretend that I'm French and whistle La Marseillaise as he gives me a jolly good truncheoning for being "sans papier". Better still, I won't feel so bad about leaving that horrible, authoritarian, EU with all it's socialist rules and regulations.
All together now....
Allons enfants de la Patrie,
Le jour de gloire est arrivé!
Contre nous de la tyrannie,
L'étendard sanglant est levé, (bis)
Entendez-vous dans les campagnes
Mugir ces féroces soldats?
Ils viennent jusque dans vos bras
Égorger vos fils, vos compagnes!
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