Huge Fire In Block Of Flats

[cahami]

jsf said:

Gas appliances cut gas flow if they lose their heat at the flow point, which happens when the supply is cut off.
There should be no issue with safety reinstating the main supply to a building with appliances working properly.

But each flat still needs to be checked to ensure that they are working correctly.

[cahami]

jsf said:

Gas appliances cut gas flow if they lose their heat at the flow point, which happens when the supply is cut off.
There should be no issue with safety reinstating the main supply to a building with appliances working properly.

But each flat still needs to be checked to ensure that they are working correctly.

[Bibbs]

jmorgan said:

AW111 said:

spaximus said:

The rules are there to protect people and there are enough communal parks and gardens even in London to allow most activities. Do you think the "rich" who own flats thinks "fk it" I will have a barbeque on my balcony? No they understand if they want a garden they pay more for one or do without.

IIRC the cladding fire in Melbourne was started by a balcony barbecue - in a "rich person's" flat.

Interesting to see many a BBQ on a balcony. Wonder how many are there now.

In Australia it's very common.

When I was in an apartment, I had my BBQ going most weekends on the balcony. Most are gas though.



Enough room for an 8 seater table, a long bench seat, and a big BBQ.

I recon every apartment is the same, from friends places and looking at the occupied apartments. If you see chairs on the balcony, you'll 99% see a BBQ too.

[Colonial]

Bibbs said:

In Australia it's very common.

When I was in an apartment, I had my BBQ going most weekends on the balcony. Most are gas though.



Enough room for an 8 seater table, a long bench seat, and a big BBQ.

I recon every apartment is the same, from friends places and looking at the occupied apartments. If you see chairs on the balcony, you'll 99% see a BBQ too.

Yep, same. I rented a nice 2 bedroom apartment in central Newcastle that had a similar sized balcony. Used my BBQ often, and I think at lest 50-60% of other residents did as well.

[AW111]

Bibbs said:

In Australia it's very common.

When I was in an apartment, I had my BBQ going most weekends on the balcony. Most are gas though.



Enough room for an 8 seater table, a long bench seat, and a big BBQ.

I recon every apartment is the same, from friends places and looking at the occupied apartments. If you see chairs on the balcony, you'll 99% see a BBQ too.

According to spaximus, you must be poor and feckless, along with your friends.

[gooner1]

Welshbeef said:

So given McDonnells murder claim of the govt on the tower block victims when is he going to realise it's the whole govt the whole planning and building regs and likely illegal products being used.


Nasty man saying vile things without the facts.

You agrree in principle with what he said then,, but want ALL recent governments to be included in his accusation

Do we yet have proof of who is to
blame and the illegality of products being used?

Nasty man saying vile things without the facts.

Fwiw, I disagree strongly with the murder claim. Could yet end up in a corporate manslaughter case though.

[Bibbs]

AW111 said:

According to spaximus, you must be poor and feckless, along with your friends.

Yup, can't disagre
Granted the prices have dropped massively of late (over supply, local casino extension, golf course closure), but still over 500,000 (GBP) in the current market.

https://www.realestate.com.au/property/902-21-bow-...

Spec says 172 sq m of "land", and 112 sq m of "building". So 60 sq m of patio. I've lived in smaller houses in the UK.

Edited by Bibbs on Wednesday 28th June 07:06

[anonymous-user]

A situation thus , they all fked up. Take the lack on consensus and sort it out so it never happens again. If it cost money do it first sort it out later. This is where politics shouldn't be.

[Vipers]

The Spruce goose said:

A situation thus , they all fked up. Take the lack on consensus and sort it out so it never happens again. If it cost money do it first sort it out later. This is where politics shouldn't be.

Money! No problem, stop foreign aid. Sorted.

[anonymous-user]

Interesting short video of the Camden block that was evacuated - I'd have liked to see a much longer one though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-403576...

One of the comments was a fire door that would only last 5-10 minutes as 'due to health & safety' it had loads of glass panels for visual access - this seems surprising as I've seen many full panel glass fire doors that are meant to be FD60 (60 minute resistant).

Seems very odd

[Ganglandboss]

jsf said:

Gas appliances cut gas flow if they lose their heat at the flow point, which happens when the supply is cut off.
There should be no issue with safety reinstating the main supply to a building with appliances working properly.

Not all. My parents old cooker had no flame failure device, and they only replaced that a few weeks ago. I expect there will still be plenty about, especially in poorer households.

[Blue Oval84]

Ganglandboss said:

jsf said:

Gas appliances cut gas flow if they lose their heat at the flow point, which happens when the supply is cut off.
There should be no issue with safety reinstating the main supply to a building with appliances working properly.

Not all. My parents old cooker had no flame failure device, and they only replaced that a few weeks ago. I expect there will still be plenty about, especially in poorer households.

Indeed, following a gas cut, NG re-instate house by house in my experience. Hence when we used to disconnect people to replace their external meter (for non-payment), we couldn't re-instate the supply without gaining access. If the customer wasn't home then that normally resulted in an angry phone call later that night, they had a prepay meter sat there with credit on it but the supply stayed capped until a purge and relight job was done.

I can't begin to imagine the st storm if that happened across 120 flats every time the alarm went off!

[OldGermanHeaps]

It doesn't have to be evey time the alarm goes off. In disabled housing it can be set up so if the detectors within a flat go off only the gas to that one flat is shut off, the gas to the whole block is only shut off if a communal area detector is activated or 2 adjacent detectors within a certain timeframe of each other, and no one should be burning toast in the stairwell. Addressable panels can be pretty versatile, especially when connected to a plc or similar.

[anonymous-user]

There has to be an annual inspection and certification for gas appliances in rented accommodation. Old appliances fail.

I would expect any private owners in these blocks would have to maintain that.

[OldGermanHeaps]

Ganglandboss said:

Not all. My parents old cooker had no flame failure device, and they only replaced that a few weeks ago. I expect there will still be plenty about, especially in poorer households.

I doubt social housing tenants would be allowed these, most tend to be quite tightly controlling of tenants gas appliances, but privatly owned is pretty much a free for all.

[Blue Oval84]

OldGermanHeaps said:

It doesn't have to be evey time the alarm goes off. In disabled housing it can be set up so if the detectors within a flat go off only the gas to that one flat is shut off, the gas to the whole block is only shut off if a communal area detector is activated or 2 adjacent detectors within a certain timeframe of each other, and no one should be burning toast in the stairwell. Addressable panels can be pretty versatile, especially when connected to a plc or similar.

The poster I was responding to suggested cutting off the building's gas in response to a fire alarm. I'm sure there are more sensible ways to do it as you suggest, although I'm not entirely sure it's necessary in most cases. By what I've seen of Grenfell it would have to be a valve controlling supply to the whole block (the affected pipes were before the individual meter points).

[Blue Oval84]

jsf said:

There has to be an annual inspection and certification for gas appliances in rented accommodation. Old appliances fail.

I would expect any private owners in these blocks would have to maintain that.

I own a private flat and I can do whatever I like, no one has any interest in what gas appliances I have. The hob is 15 years old and was here when I moved in, I've not had it checked and couldn't tell you if it has a cut off device. I know if I don't quite light it properly then it quite merrily chucks gas out into the room until I notice so I doubt it does have a cut off.

If I rented it out then I'd need to get it checked.

[anonymous-user]

Is your flat part of a social housing block?

I am surprised your leasehold agreement doesn't specify safety checks for a flat in a block.

[Ganglandboss]

jsf said:

There has to be an annual inspection and certification for gas appliances in rented accommodation. Old appliances fail.

I would expect any private owners in these blocks would have to maintain that.

OldGermanHeaps said:

Ganglandboss said:

Not all. My parents old cooker had no flame failure device, and they only replaced that a few weeks ago. I expect there will still be plenty about, especially in poorer households.

I doubt social housing tenants would be allowed these, most tend to be quite tightly controlling of tenants gas appliances, but privatly owned is pretty much a free for all.

My nan lives in a warden controlled housing association bungalow. Last year, we had to have her cooker disconnected as she was forever leaving the gas on with the hob unlit, so clearly the requirement for annual inspections do not provide the protection suggested. Age of the appliance does not always render it unsafe. Another issue in tower blocks is that some flats are privately owned.

Edited by Ganglandboss on Wednesday 28th June 12:14

[MysteryLemon]

Blue Oval84 said:

I own a private flat and I can do whatever I like, no one has any interest in what gas appliances I have. The hob is 15 years old and was here when I moved in, I've not had it checked and couldn't tell you if it has a cut off device. I know if I don't quite light it properly then it quite merrily chucks gas out into the room until I notice so I doubt it does have a cut off.

If I rented it out then I'd need to get it checked.

This.

I rented for years in various places with the missus before we bought our own place. Not once were we ever required to use gas appliances that met a certain safety standard or criteria. In the places they were already installed, they were never checked or had any record of being checked. There may well have been something within the contract but nothing was ever enforced or checked at the regular inspections (to make sure we hadn't trashed the place).

Regarldess what rules and regulations exist (do they?) to keep rented accommodation in check, I've seen no evidence of it ever being enforced.