Huge Fire In Block Of Flats
Discussion
New council leader heckled in council meeting, check out the row of bouncers hired too at the back of the video.
Resign? She has only just got the job.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40663512
Resign? She has only just got the job.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40663512
From what I've seen so far this morning some of the residents didn't exactly help their cause, calling the the new head a murderer, I mean, really?...
And then spouting off "we don't want you" what exactly do they want?
On a tangent how many of the residents had home Insurance?
Because I assume those would of been given accommodation by them.
And then spouting off "we don't want you" what exactly do they want?
On a tangent how many of the residents had home Insurance?
Because I assume those would of been given accommodation by them.
chrisgtx said:
From what I've seen so far this morning some of the residents didn't exactly help their cause, calling the the new head a murderer, I mean, really?...
And then spouting off "we don't want you" what exactly do they want?
On a tangent how many of the residents had home Insurance?
Because I assume those would of been given accommodation by them.
What about he freeholder of the tower block where is its insurance?And then spouting off "we don't want you" what exactly do they want?
On a tangent how many of the residents had home Insurance?
Because I assume those would of been given accommodation by them.
Yes it sound like either none have contents insurance OR they want a double payout OR they believe they will be better off letting the govt sort it all out.
Hopefully the govt takes the insurance contribution against here costs - it would be horrid if a commercial organisation were to benefit from not paying out following this disastrous event.
langtounlad said:
As above. These are reasonable and commonsense questions but I haven't seen any media channels make these points or ask the questions.
The issue being people remember what happened to The Sun in Liverpool all those years ago and even if coming out as true what hey say would be very very toxic. chrisgtx said:
From what I've seen so far this morning some of the residents didn't exactly help their cause, calling the the new head a murderer, I mean, really?...
And then spouting off "we don't want you" what exactly do they want?
At a guess, these are not residents but 'protesters' who won't be happy until they have a Labour-run council.And then spouting off "we don't want you" what exactly do they want?
saaby93 said:
Burwood said:
saaby93 said:
If the shell is still strong and it was allegedly fireproof, if someone got their act together, how long to clean the place up and make it habitable again, if thats what the residents want?
What you say is common sense, fact etc. But can you imagine the politics. It would be easier and cheaper in the long run to level itThey could occupy the first ten floors with people that really dont want to go anywhere else, then refurb te rest of it
There's also the minor issue that the communal heating system which supplied the tower and adjoining blocks was in the basement and was completely destroyed in the fire...
Welshbeef said:
chrisgtx said:
From what I've seen so far this morning some of the residents didn't exactly help their cause, calling the the new head a murderer, I mean, really?...
And then spouting off "we don't want you" what exactly do they want?
On a tangent how many of the residents had home Insurance?
Because I assume those would of been given accommodation by them.
What about he freeholder of the tower block where is its insurance?And then spouting off "we don't want you" what exactly do they want?
On a tangent how many of the residents had home Insurance?
Because I assume those would of been given accommodation by them.
Yes it sound like either none have contents insurance OR they want a double payout OR they believe they will be better off letting the govt sort it all out.
Hopefully the govt takes the insurance contribution against here costs - it would be horrid if a commercial organisation were to benefit from not paying out following this disastrous event.
You might takeout contents insurance but the risk of anything happening or it being covered is so low you may not feel it worthwhile.
If this was a normal incident wouldnt you just look around for somewhere else that you fancy?
However it isnt as it seems something didnt work.
How did the communal heating plant catch fire if it's in the basement? Where's this interim report?
We will probably never find out but it would be interesting to know:
1. How many of the tenants had contents insurance. Must surely have been some?
2. How many flats were let to private tenants? Are they being treated differently.
3. How many of the flats had been sold to private landlords and what is the position with these?
Also I see a Cornish village was hit by floods yesterday leaving several homeless although no loss of life. Will there be assistance for them in a similar way if they don't have insurance?
1. How many of the tenants had contents insurance. Must surely have been some?
2. How many flats were let to private tenants? Are they being treated differently.
3. How many of the flats had been sold to private landlords and what is the position with these?
Also I see a Cornish village was hit by floods yesterday leaving several homeless although no loss of life. Will there be assistance for them in a similar way if they don't have insurance?
The heating system didn't catch fire, it was flooded out. That was widely reported at the time as the reason why the fire affected more residents than just those living in the tower itself.
There's absolutely no way they could move residents into the lower floors whIle they're checking the upper floors for remains, something which will take many months.
There's absolutely no way they could move residents into the lower floors whIle they're checking the upper floors for remains, something which will take many months.
saaby93 said:
Welshbeef said:
chrisgtx said:
From what I've seen so far this morning some of the residents didn't exactly help their cause, calling the the new head a murderer, I mean, really?...
And then spouting off "we don't want you" what exactly do they want?
On a tangent how many of the residents had home Insurance?
Because I assume those would of been given accommodation by them.
What about he freeholder of the tower block where is its insurance?And then spouting off "we don't want you" what exactly do they want?
On a tangent how many of the residents had home Insurance?
Because I assume those would of been given accommodation by them.
Yes it sound like either none have contents insurance OR they want a double payout OR they believe they will be better off letting the govt sort it all out.
Hopefully the govt takes the insurance contribution against here costs - it would be horrid if a commercial organisation were to benefit from not paying out following this disastrous event.
You might takeout contents insurance but the risk of anything happening or it being covered is so low you may not feel it worthwhile.
If this was a normal incident wouldnt you just look around for somewhere else that you fancy?
However it isnt as it seems something didnt work.
How did the communal heating plant catch fire if it's in the basement? Where's this interim report?
The landlord sorts the home insurance. I assume it's one landlord for the whole building?
As I know in the past some councils have sold of a few houses on estates for example.
I'd still want contents insurance no matter where I lived, flooding from the floor above in a tower block must be the most common problem.
Thankyou4calling said:
We will probably never find out but it would be interesting to know:
1. How many of the tenants had contents insurance. Must surely have been some?
2. How many flats were let to private tenants? Are they being treated differently.
3. How many of the flats had been sold to private landlords and what is the position with these?
Also I see a Cornish village was hit by floods yesterday leaving several homeless although no loss of life. Will there be assistance for them in a similar way if they don't have insurance?
I suspect they'll get on with their lives, make ins claims and manage.1. How many of the tenants had contents insurance. Must surely have been some?
2. How many flats were let to private tenants? Are they being treated differently.
3. How many of the flats had been sold to private landlords and what is the position with these?
Also I see a Cornish village was hit by floods yesterday leaving several homeless although no loss of life. Will there be assistance for them in a similar way if they don't have insurance?
Not demand 300 year old, 4 bed thatched cottages, to be immediately delivered the next day to them, in the exact location of their preference. And a share of some massive "just giving pot".
chrisgtx said:
From what I've seen so far this morning some of the residents didn't exactly help their cause, calling the the new head a murderer, I mean, really?...
And then spouting off "we don't want you" what exactly do they want?
On a tangent how many of the residents had home Insurance?
Because I assume those would of been given accommodation by them.
The abuse she received is a disgrace. She is new to that job & should not be abused in her workplace.And then spouting off "we don't want you" what exactly do they want?
On a tangent how many of the residents had home Insurance?
Because I assume those would of been given accommodation by them.
It's a shame that sympathy for the victims is being eroded by a few..
I/We have limited personal knowledge of the issues surrounding insurance and as ever, will leave the finer points of that to an INSURANCE EXPERT rather than my version of 'pub talk/bore'.
What we do have plenty of experience of though is flats in London.
Generally speaking, pretty much all (most - but to all intents and purposes, all) of these type of flats and privately owned flats in general are leasehold. In a tower block such as this, the freeholder has the responsibility to insure the fabric/building. Where flats have been sold off under R2B or whatever, then there will definitely be a formal lease in place and that will stipulate that the building is insured by the freeholder. The exception is large council estates and blocks though as there may well be legacy issues such as no formal lease in place as the freeholder is also the leaseholder. This is much less common now I believe in that most larger council accommodation blocks/estates have been split off into separate companies and bodies which have renewed or even set up leases in many cases.
The flats/tenants will have the option, individually, of insuring their contents. The Landlord/owner of a privately owned flat will be a leaseholder with the Freeholder effectively being their landlord - I am deliberately using slightly confusing terminology to illustrate how easily these terms can be misused or misunderstood. Most private/professional landlords (as opposed to freeholders) will be advised to insure their flats with a specified specialist contents policy to cover their own fixtures and fittings. There is a good market in such plans.
Where the council or whatever the company was called, are the freeholders and also the landlords to their council tenants, it could be a little murkier as the Council is possibly not going to insure anything other than the freehold responsibilities? Someone will correct me on that point. I would be surprised if the council doesn't 'self insure' where it is able to do so - i.e. contents cover for its own furniture in council flats etc.
There will be plenty of insurance cover flying around but how and who is going to unpick it is anybody's guess??
We also bought the freehold of the building/house I actually live in London and have had to jump through various hoops etc. It is interesting debating where Buildings cover stops and individual flat's cover starts.... If the building (W9 and within sight of the smoke from the fire) burns down, the buildings cover steps in and we would claim on that. The Freehold Insurance or 'buildings cover' wont cover unlimited contents - ours doesn't! If a toaster erupts and smoke damages an internal flat without encroaching on the other flats or communal parts, then it is the individual flat's responsibility and tough.
It helps that the Leaseholders are: Lawyer, Property Co., Investment Banker, us, Journalist. Freeholder is the four of us bar the Prop Co.
The legal principles may be one thing, politically (small P) they are another thing altogether?? Just try paying out as it is the 'right thing to do' as a freeholder and then trying to get the Ins Co to simply reimburse you - tough chance!
There will (IMHO) be many flats in Grenfell Tower that were relying purely on the Freeholder's Building Ins and wont have any contents cover whatsoever - if that happened in our block, the council would tell us to 'do one' if we came to them for aid? I am not sure that we (Freeholder's) would have any legal obligation to any individual flat owner or private tenant above and beyond the Lease obligations themselves - which are limited.
ps - I have read that a few times now and think it is reasonably accurate and clear but I look forward to hearing from better informed bods in these specific circumstances.
What we do have plenty of experience of though is flats in London.
Generally speaking, pretty much all (most - but to all intents and purposes, all) of these type of flats and privately owned flats in general are leasehold. In a tower block such as this, the freeholder has the responsibility to insure the fabric/building. Where flats have been sold off under R2B or whatever, then there will definitely be a formal lease in place and that will stipulate that the building is insured by the freeholder. The exception is large council estates and blocks though as there may well be legacy issues such as no formal lease in place as the freeholder is also the leaseholder. This is much less common now I believe in that most larger council accommodation blocks/estates have been split off into separate companies and bodies which have renewed or even set up leases in many cases.
The flats/tenants will have the option, individually, of insuring their contents. The Landlord/owner of a privately owned flat will be a leaseholder with the Freeholder effectively being their landlord - I am deliberately using slightly confusing terminology to illustrate how easily these terms can be misused or misunderstood. Most private/professional landlords (as opposed to freeholders) will be advised to insure their flats with a specified specialist contents policy to cover their own fixtures and fittings. There is a good market in such plans.
Where the council or whatever the company was called, are the freeholders and also the landlords to their council tenants, it could be a little murkier as the Council is possibly not going to insure anything other than the freehold responsibilities? Someone will correct me on that point. I would be surprised if the council doesn't 'self insure' where it is able to do so - i.e. contents cover for its own furniture in council flats etc.
There will be plenty of insurance cover flying around but how and who is going to unpick it is anybody's guess??
We also bought the freehold of the building/house I actually live in London and have had to jump through various hoops etc. It is interesting debating where Buildings cover stops and individual flat's cover starts.... If the building (W9 and within sight of the smoke from the fire) burns down, the buildings cover steps in and we would claim on that. The Freehold Insurance or 'buildings cover' wont cover unlimited contents - ours doesn't! If a toaster erupts and smoke damages an internal flat without encroaching on the other flats or communal parts, then it is the individual flat's responsibility and tough.
It helps that the Leaseholders are: Lawyer, Property Co., Investment Banker, us, Journalist. Freeholder is the four of us bar the Prop Co.
The legal principles may be one thing, politically (small P) they are another thing altogether?? Just try paying out as it is the 'right thing to do' as a freeholder and then trying to get the Ins Co to simply reimburse you - tough chance!
There will (IMHO) be many flats in Grenfell Tower that were relying purely on the Freeholder's Building Ins and wont have any contents cover whatsoever - if that happened in our block, the council would tell us to 'do one' if we came to them for aid? I am not sure that we (Freeholder's) would have any legal obligation to any individual flat owner or private tenant above and beyond the Lease obligations themselves - which are limited.
ps - I have read that a few times now and think it is reasonably accurate and clear but I look forward to hearing from better informed bods in these specific circumstances.
I've got to be honest, after last night's performance I am rapidly starting to lose sympathy for these people. They are now coming across as entitled money grabbers who think they can dictate to the authorities and should have everything they want on a silver platter.
Apparently they want a Labour council leader. Well tough s
t. The fire was a tragic event but FFS give it a rest. They are basically going to lay into every council leader they get without giving them a chance now. Jeremy Corbyn and Emma Dent Coad are right there behind them, encouraging them to stick the boot in. What a carry on.
Apparently they want a Labour council leader. Well tough s
t. The fire was a tragic event but FFS give it a rest. They are basically going to lay into every council leader they get without giving them a chance now. Jeremy Corbyn and Emma Dent Coad are right there behind them, encouraging them to stick the boot in. What a carry on. Slaav said:
There will be plenty of insurance cover flying around but how and who is going to unpick it is anybody's guess??
The insurers are involved.They will most certainly be interested to see if there has been any negligence in the design/build of the refurb as they will seek to recoup any outlay.
The tender document for this year should be available online somewhere as the premiums paid etc certainly are.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff