Huge Fire In Block Of Flats

[WatchfulEye]

saaby93 said:

It's a myth that aluminium doesnt burn, as discussed earlier in the thread.
Maybe the Grenfell images will put paid to that
If youve an aluminum can on a camp fire you can see it burn, it depends what is meant by burn.

Well, exactly. This is probably something that any new regs would need to address.

What should be classified as "burning"? Historically, this has been whether there has been spread of fire, and more recent regs measure excess thermal power output when subjected to a prescribed thermal power input - i.e. whether something generates heat, in response to heat, regardless of whether the substance would be able to self-sustain.

This is highly dependent on the structure of the material. Fine iron powder will burn, can can do so quite vigorously, but structural iron doesn't under any credible situation. So the question becomes where the line is drawn. It's the same with aluminium foils as might be used in construction.

The other issue is whether a structure can maintain its structural integrity in case of fire. Vertical cavities are serious hazard for fire spread. If an aluminium structure is used to occlude the cavity, then structural failure needs to be considered.

[rambo19]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5951519/Gr...

Illegal and yet still got the money!
FFS!

[del mar]

But think of all the doctors we have !

[bitchstewie]

rambo19 said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5951519/Gr...

Illegal and yet still got the money!
FFS!

They deserve every minute of their jail sentence and some more beside IMO.

It would be interesting to understand how much process there was in determining how legitimate claims were.

I can get that in the immediate aftermath there would have been an element of panic/hurry but at some point I'm guessing it turns into the criminals being very smart or the council/authorities being lax - I'm guessing it's more of the latter than the former.

[saaby93]

bhstewie said:

They deserve every minute of their jail sentence and some more beside IMO.

It would be interesting to understand how much process there was in determining how legitimate claims were.

I can get that in the immediate aftermath there would have been an element of panic/hurry but at some point I'm guessing it turns into the criminals being very smart or the council/authorities being lax - I'm guessing it's more of the latter than the former.

Not easy
In the aftermath they had to be seen to be giving support to anyone that came forward from the tower
Imagine what would have happened if theyd said we can only help if you prove youre from the tower
'all my stuff has been burnt'
'so you cant prove it'

[bitchstewie]

saaby93 said:

Not easy
In the aftermath they had to be seen to be giving support to anyone that came forward from the tower
Imagine what would have happened if theyd said we can only help if you prove youre from the tower
'all my stuff has been burnt'
'so you cant prove it'

Yes I agree with that entirely, I get it's not easy and I suppose things like Windrush do show how "easy" it can be to live a lifetime with no real proof of who you are.

But I'm still struggling with how there couldn't be some way to have picked this up earlier given they picked it up eventually IYSWIM.

[Vipers]

bhstewie said:

rambo19 said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5951519/Gr...

Illegal and yet still got the money!
FFS!

They deserve every minute of their jail sentence and some more beside IMO.

It would be interesting to understand how much process there was in determining how legitimate claims were.

I can get that in the immediate aftermath there would have been an element of panic/hurry but at some point I'm guessing it turns into the criminals being very smart or the council/authorities being lax - I'm guessing it's more of the latter than the former.

Apart from zero, what's the chance of them being deported when they come out, or cost the taxpayers even more money fighting deportation.

[Thankyou4calling]

They’ll definitely be deported. Without a doubt.

[rambo19]

saaby93 said:

Not easy
In the aftermath they had to be seen to be giving support to anyone that came forward from the tower
Imagine what would have happened if theyd said we can only help if you prove youre from the tower
'all my stuff has been burnt'
'so you cant prove it'

In todays age of computers, is it really that hard to look up voters roll/tenants lists to see if someone lived in the tower block?
Of course not.

[gruffalo]

rambo19 said:

saaby93 said:

Not easy
In the aftermath they had to be seen to be giving support to anyone that came forward from the tower
Imagine what would have happened if theyd said we can only help if you prove youre from the tower
'all my stuff has been burnt'
'so you cant prove it'

In todays age of computers, is it really that hard to look up voters roll/tenants lists to see if someone lived in the tower block?
Of course not.

With many of the flats sub let on a cash in hand basis, yes almost impossible to definitely say who lived in the block.

[Thankyou4calling]

gruffalo said:

With many of the flats sub let on a cash in hand basis, yes almost impossible to definitely say who lived in the block.

There's been nothing official that any, let alone many of the flats were sublet cash in hand.

[Slaav]

Thankyou4calling said:

gruffalo said:

With many of the flats sub let on a cash in hand basis, yes almost impossible to definitely say who lived in the block.

There's been nothing official that any, let alone many of the flats were sublet cash in hand.

If all tenancies and occupiers were 100% legit, would you explain how and why there was so much confusion for quite so long?

[Thankyou4calling]

Slaav said:

If all tenancies and occupiers were 100% legit, would you explain how and why there was so much confusion for quite so long?

I'm not saying all were legit. I'm simply not going to get involved in the speculation which is all it is.

What i do know for an absolute fact is that Grenfell was not a run down, crime ridden refuge for jobless illegal immigrants. far from it.

Yes, there will have been illegal subletting, in 134 flats there is bound to be but on nowhere near the scale portrayed by the media.

Why was it hard to identify people?

1. Residents were left with nothing but pyjamas.
2. There are fraudsters.
3. The LA were not up to the task.

I live in the borough so probably know more than most.

[rscott]

Slaav said:

Thankyou4calling said:

gruffalo said:

With many of the flats sub let on a cash in hand basis, yes almost impossible to definitely say who lived in the block.

There's been nothing official that any, let alone many of the flats were sublet cash in hand.

If all tenancies and occupiers were 100% legit, would you explain how and why there was so much confusion for quite so long?

Incompetence/lack of effort by the workers dealing with the support of residents? If they took nearly a year to realise that the flat details given weren't even correct (wrong floor!) then what else aren't they checking properly?

Surely part of the process would be to build a central list of residents detailing exactly who was reported as living in each flat?

[anonymous-user]

When will they be pulling this wreck down ?

[Thankyou4calling]

techiedave said:

When will they be pulling this wreck down ?

Good question.

They are saying this year but I have my doubts.

It's been officially declared as no longer needed for investigative purposes ref crime but pulling it down will cause massive debate in the local community .

Even things like the method to be used will be disagreed on let alone when and what will be built in it's place.

My guess is it is at least a year away possibly more.

The thing is whilst some want rid there are those who see it as a stark reminder that should stand and this being the UK 2018 every body will have a voice.

[Slaav]

Thankyou4calling said:

I'm not saying all were legit. I'm simply not going to get involved in the speculation which is all it is.

What i do know for an absolute fact is that Grenfell was not a run down, crime ridden refuge for jobless illegal immigrants. far from it.

Yes, there will have been illegal subletting, in 134 flats there is bound to be but on nowhere near the scale portrayed by the media.

Why was it hard to identify people?

1. Residents were left with nothing but pyjamas.
2. There are fraudsters.
3. The LA were not up to the task.

I live in the borough so probably know more than most.

I lived in RBK&C for many years and our London flat is very near Grenfell. I have had the misfortune to deal regularly with RBK&C and Westminster on housing/Freehold issues. Literally any level (right up to criminal levels) of incompetence doesn’t surprise me in the slightest unfortunately....

My guess/hope is that all of this will be uncovered/exposed/put to bed with the enquiry? Once and for all???

[rambo19]

gruffalo said:

With many of the flats sub let on a cash in hand basis, yes almost impossible to definitely say who lived in the block.

Then they would be illegal tenants and get no money-simples.

[Slaav]

rambo19 said:

Then they would be illegal tenants and get no money-simples.

They are/do still get money and the ‘illegal tenants’ arguably should be looked after?

Don’t get me on the illegal landlords who were in LA or assisted/HA accommodation and then illegally sub Let!! But that might be where you are aiming?

[anonymous-user]

Thankyou4calling said:

Good question.

They are saying this year but I have my doubts.

It's been officially declared as no longer needed for investigative purposes ref crime but pulling it down will cause massive debate in the local community .

Even things like the method to be used will be disagreed on let alone when and what will be built in it's place.

My guess is it is at least a year away possibly more.

The thing is whilst some want rid there are those who see it as a stark reminder that should stand and this being the UK 2018 every body will have a voice.

So much for democracy and all that bks
they should just pull it down and if anyone objects let them whinge
Its called having backbone
It looks a mess is a blight on the area and is very probably a beacon for all the sad bds who feel the need to punish themselves for having something that poorer people don't Sorry not sorry for sounding uncaring I just feel that certain types need to learn that feeling guilty is not a national pastime