Now I'm no Nelson....
Discussion
gooner1 said:
But why just sail away? You can't do that accidentally.
I can only speculate but I very much doubt the USS Fitzgerald would have wanted anything near it, probably ordered them away.FiF said:
So what's the reason for the second set of strange course changes to the NE of Oshima.
Firstly there is no second set of strange course changes as the first set is easily explainable. secondly who knows what was going on the second time round but there are lots of possible explanations that would make sense after a collision and the inevitable fall out.RIP to the sailors who lost their lives. Tragic.
very sad and im not making light of it, but first thing that sprung to mind was the father ted sketch.
https://youtu.be/4uOX_hbkAMc?t=91
they must have seen it coming for a while.
https://youtu.be/4uOX_hbkAMc?t=91
they must have seen it coming for a while.
FiF said:
Elroy Blue said:
What was the OOW doing on the destroyer? No matter what the other ship is doing, your ship shouldn't be in a position where a collision occurs.
Read the top post by Wordsmith, click to expand the quoted part.https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/pull-up-...
cuprabob said:
FiF said:
Elroy Blue said:
What was the OOW doing on the destroyer? No matter what the other ship is doing, your ship shouldn't be in a position where a collision occurs.
Read the top post by Wordsmith, click to expand the quoted part.https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/pull-up-...
gregs656 said:
gooner1 said:
But why just sail away? You can't do that accidentally.
I can only speculate but I very much doubt the USS Fitzgerald would have wanted anything near it, probably ordered them away.Not sure that makes sense.
Edited by TTmonkey on Sunday 18th June 17:34
TTmonkey said:
gregs656 said:
gooner1 said:
But why just sail away? You can't do that accidentally.
I can only speculate but I very much doubt the USS Fitzgerald would have wanted anything near it, probably ordered them away.Not sure that makes sense.
Edited by TTmonkey on Sunday 18th June 17:34
Edited by hidetheelephants on Sunday 18th June 22:02
jeffw said:
HMS Manxman would do just under 40Kn flat chat.
Ships have got lighter because they no longer carry large amounts of armour. While a WW2 era ship might be fast it would take a long time to get to max speed and use a lot of fuel doing it.
I was on the HMS Belfast yesterday, and discovered that its top speed was 32knots. It had 4 steam turbine engines, each devoloping 20,000 hp (or shaft hp). There were high speed and cruising speed turbines (the cruising one would also be used for reversing). When both turbines were used in conjunction, full speed would be achieved, but at full chat it was burning 26 tons of oil an hour! Ships have got lighter because they no longer carry large amounts of armour. While a WW2 era ship might be fast it would take a long time to get to max speed and use a lot of fuel doing it.
Sadly there is a quite a history of marine collisions in the open sea where logically it should just not have happend. No idea what caused this one but the usual culprits are:
No one on watch, relying on autopilot- merchant ships often have only one or two lookouts, so if one falls asleep... And if on first day out of port, those crew involved in loading/unloading may have worked far more hours than they would at sea, so be more likely to be tired. Unlikely to be the case on a warship I suppose.
or
General confusion- ships both see the other, recognise risk of collision, but misunderstand each others intentions. As when you nearly walk in to someone, doing that left right left dodge on the pavement.
And then as someone posted above, officer on the bridge of the warship may have had a macho moment- anyone remember the RN skipper who drove a frigate into London Bridge trying to leave a berth alongside HMS Belfast in a high speed turn rather than using tugs? Some sort of Clarkson moment. POWER!! POWER!!!
No one on watch, relying on autopilot- merchant ships often have only one or two lookouts, so if one falls asleep... And if on first day out of port, those crew involved in loading/unloading may have worked far more hours than they would at sea, so be more likely to be tired. Unlikely to be the case on a warship I suppose.
or
General confusion- ships both see the other, recognise risk of collision, but misunderstand each others intentions. As when you nearly walk in to someone, doing that left right left dodge on the pavement.
And then as someone posted above, officer on the bridge of the warship may have had a macho moment- anyone remember the RN skipper who drove a frigate into London Bridge trying to leave a berth alongside HMS Belfast in a high speed turn rather than using tugs? Some sort of Clarkson moment. POWER!! POWER!!!
mac96 said:
General confusion- ships both see the other, recognise risk of collision, but misunderstand each others intentions. As when you nearly walk in to someone, doing that left right left dodge on the pavement.
EarlOfHazard said:
I was on the HMS Belfast yesterday, and discovered that its top speed was 32knots. It had 4 steam turbine engines, each devoloping 20,000 hp (or shaft hp). There were high speed and cruising speed turbines (the cruising one would also be used for reversing). When both turbines were used in conjunction, full speed would be achieved, but at full chat it was burning 26 tons of oil an hour!
Thanks for that, I had no idea of the kind of fuel consumption required needed to power these things. What tonnage is HMS Belfast?Pesty said:
mac96 said:
General confusion- ships both see the other, recognise risk of collision, but misunderstand each others intentions. As when you nearly walk in to someone, doing that left right left dodge on the pavement.
Rules basically say that in given circumstances one ship (the 'stand on ship') should maintain course and speed; the other should take the necessary avoiding action. Problems arise either when neither ship is alert, or when the stand on ship is alert, and sees the other ship bearing down on them apparently oblivious. Eventually stand on ship takes its own avoiding action either too late, or alternatively the other ship also changes course at the last minute rendering the avoiding action unsuccessful.
With big ships it's a slow dance, with the visible course change coming somewhat after the change of course order, which makes it all more difficult to tell what the other guy is doing.
Pesty said:
mac96 said:
General confusion- ships both see the other, recognise risk of collision, but misunderstand each others intentions. As when you nearly walk in to someone, doing that left right left dodge on the pavement.
When all three lights I see ahead,
I turn to Starboard and show my Red:
Green to Green, Red to Red,
Perfect Safety -- Go Ahead.
But if to Starboard Red appear,
It is my duty to keep clear --
To act as judgment says is proper:
To Port or Starboard, Back or Stop her.
And if upon my Port is seen
A Steamer's Starboard light of Green,
I hold my course and watch to see
That Green to Port keeps Clear of me.
Both in safety and in doubt
Always keep a good look out.
In Danger, with no room to turn,
Ease her, Stop her, Go Astern.
mac96 said:
Absolutely- it shouldn't happen.
Rules basically say that in given circumstances one ship (the 'stand on ship') should maintain course and speed; the other should take the necessary avoiding action. Problems arise either when neither ship is alert, or when the stand on ship is alert, and sees the other ship bearing down on them apparently oblivious. Eventually stand on ship takes its own avoiding action either too late, or alternatively the other ship also changes course at the last minute rendering the avoiding action unsuccessful.
With big ships it's a slow dance, with the visible course change coming somewhat after the change of course order, which makes it all more difficult to tell what the other guy is doing.
Are this ships not in radio, or any other form of contact, Flares, signal rockets Etc.?Rules basically say that in given circumstances one ship (the 'stand on ship') should maintain course and speed; the other should take the necessary avoiding action. Problems arise either when neither ship is alert, or when the stand on ship is alert, and sees the other ship bearing down on them apparently oblivious. Eventually stand on ship takes its own avoiding action either too late, or alternatively the other ship also changes course at the last minute rendering the avoiding action unsuccessful.
With big ships it's a slow dance, with the visible course change coming somewhat after the change of course order, which makes it all more difficult to tell what the other guy is doing.
FiF said:
Pesty said:
mac96 said:
General confusion- ships both see the other, recognise risk of collision, but misunderstand each others intentions. As when you nearly walk in to someone, doing that left right left dodge on the pavement.
When all three lights I see ahead,
I turn to Starboard and show my Red:
Green to Green, Red to Red,
Perfect Safety -- Go Ahead.
But if to Starboard Red appear,
It is my duty to keep clear --
To act as judgment says is proper:
To Port or Starboard, Back or Stop her.
And if upon my Port is seen
A Steamer's Starboard light of Green,
I hold my course and watch to see
That Green to Port keeps Clear of me.
Both in safety and in doubt
Always keep a good look out.
In Danger, with no room to turn,
Ease her, Stop her, Go Astern.
mac96 said:
Pesty said:
mac96 said:
General confusion- ships both see the other, recognise risk of collision, but misunderstand each others intentions. As when you nearly walk in to someone, doing that left right left dodge on the pavement.
Rules basically say that in given circumstances one ship (the 'stand on ship') should maintain course and speed; the other should take the necessary avoiding action. Problems arise either when neither ship is alert, or when the stand on ship is alert, and sees the other ship bearing down on them apparently oblivious. Eventually stand on ship takes its own avoiding action either too late, or alternatively the other ship also changes course at the last minute rendering the avoiding action unsuccessful.
With big ships it's a slow dance, with the visible course change coming somewhat after the change of course order, which makes it all more difficult to tell what the other guy is doing.
gooner1 said:
mac96 said:
Absolutely- it shouldn't happen.
Rules basically say that in given circumstances one ship (the 'stand on ship') should maintain course and speed; the other should take the necessary avoiding action. Problems arise either when neither ship is alert, or when the stand on ship is alert, and sees the other ship bearing down on them apparently oblivious. Eventually stand on ship takes its own avoiding action either too late, or alternatively the other ship also changes course at the last minute rendering the avoiding action unsuccessful.
With big ships it's a slow dance, with the visible course change coming somewhat after the change of course order, which makes it all more difficult to tell what the other guy is doing.
Are this ships not in radio, or any other form of contact, Flares, signal rockets Etc.?Rules basically say that in given circumstances one ship (the 'stand on ship') should maintain course and speed; the other should take the necessary avoiding action. Problems arise either when neither ship is alert, or when the stand on ship is alert, and sees the other ship bearing down on them apparently oblivious. Eventually stand on ship takes its own avoiding action either too late, or alternatively the other ship also changes course at the last minute rendering the avoiding action unsuccessful.
With big ships it's a slow dance, with the visible course change coming somewhat after the change of course order, which makes it all more difficult to tell what the other guy is doing.
The other thing to remember is that in crowded waters a ship has to avoid other ships coming from various directions, and may overlook one danger whilst avoiding another.
FiF said:
mac96 said:
Pesty said:
mac96 said:
General confusion- ships both see the other, recognise risk of collision, but misunderstand each others intentions. As when you nearly walk in to someone, doing that left right left dodge on the pavement.
Rules basically say that in given circumstances one ship (the 'stand on ship') should maintain course and speed; the other should take the necessary avoiding action. Problems arise either when neither ship is alert, or when the stand on ship is alert, and sees the other ship bearing down on them apparently oblivious. Eventually stand on ship takes its own avoiding action either too late, or alternatively the other ship also changes course at the last minute rendering the avoiding action unsuccessful.
With big ships it's a slow dance, with the visible course change coming somewhat after the change of course order, which makes it all more difficult to tell what the other guy is doing.
gooner1 said:
EarlOfHazard said:
I was on the HMS Belfast yesterday, and discovered that its top speed was 32knots. It had 4 steam turbine engines, each devoloping 20,000 hp (or shaft hp). There were high speed and cruising speed turbines (the cruising one would also be used for reversing). When both turbines were used in conjunction, full speed would be achieved, but at full chat it was burning 26 tons of oil an hour!
Thanks for that, I had no idea of the kind of fuel consumption required needed to power these things. What tonnage is HMS Belfast?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff