Fruit grower voted Leave - sorry now!
Discussion
NinjaPower said:
I remember it well.
The unemployed were absolutely furious at such a blatant attempt to get them into work.
But Alfie2244 thinks these same people will run towards unskilled work opportunities with open arms once no one 'foreign' is available to do it.
I doubt anyone thinks that. The unemployed were absolutely furious at such a blatant attempt to get them into work.
But Alfie2244 thinks these same people will run towards unskilled work opportunities with open arms once no one 'foreign' is available to do it.
While ever it pays the same/more to do nothing, people will do nothing.
Excuses are too readily available while we have surplus availability of resources. Remove the (false) surplus AND do something about the economics. That's the only way things will change.
Does any government have the backbone for the latter? More importantly, do we as an electorate?
jshell said:
Zod said:
jshell said:
The point you seem to miss is that we're at a point of no return. The EU is a stunningly corrupt organisation based on communist principles - like it or not. If we backtrack or go for a soft Brexit, they will murder us. We'll be out with the begging bowl looking for the scraps off the German and French tables.
It'll be like a wronged spouse who never forgets....
"Communist"? How?It'll be like a wronged spouse who never forgets....
It's funny that the loons on the right call the EU Communist, while the loons on the left see it as part of a great global capitalist plan.
We haven't seen the scale of change that they would like to impose. Brexit has upset the cart. The Euro being a failed currency has upset it too.
Essentially though, the vision of most of the federalists is not wildly different from the USA, but they don't take into account the deep national histories and cultures that make Europe so different from the US.
I am not a federalist.
Johnnytheboy said:
I don't suppose any of the people voting Leave thought it would return Britain's fruit growing industry to the dark days that preceded free movement of labour from Eastern Europe.
There was literally no fruit. No fruit!
Oh, wait...
The trouble here is efficiency. Spanish, Italian, Greek or Polish climate guarantees plenty of sunlight and often 20'C+ from April till early autumn. Just water them and watch them grow three times faster than in Britain. With the free market across the Europe, who would pay more for British strawberries when there's plenty of (sweeter) in Spain retailing for 1eur per kg on the roadside?There was literally no fruit. No fruit!
Oh, wait...
The only way to compete here is to save on labour, which might soon disappear and I don't see many 18yr old Brits rushing to pick fruit all day for tne NMW.
Can you compete on the vegetables with Netherlands? High tech farms employing cheap Eastern Europeans vs a field in Yorkshire, plus extra duty to pay if the free market deal with EU won't happen?
Phew, at least we got the EU subsidies for the farmers. Oh, wait...
Good luck.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It's not quite that simple though. My parents are 'baby boomers' and have done extremely well in life, but they freely admit that major purchases such as houses and business premises were much cheaper back when they were in their 20's. That is of course taking into account inflation.So back then, for anyone wanting to really push on in life and buy property, buy shops, buy themselves an office or whatever, it was much easier than today.
Zod said:
jshell said:
Zod said:
jshell said:
The point you seem to miss is that we're at a point of no return. The EU is a stunningly corrupt organisation based on communist principles - like it or not. If we backtrack or go for a soft Brexit, they will murder us. We'll be out with the begging bowl looking for the scraps off the German and French tables.
It'll be like a wronged spouse who never forgets....
"Communist"? How?It'll be like a wronged spouse who never forgets....
It's funny that the loons on the right call the EU Communist, while the loons on the left see it as part of a great global capitalist plan.
We haven't seen the scale of change that they would like to impose. Brexit has upset the cart. The Euro being a failed currency has upset it too.
Essentially though, the vision of most of the federalists is not wildly different from the USA, but they don't take into account the deep national histories and cultures that make Europe so different from the US.
I am not a federalist.
Altiero Spinelli: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altiero_Spinelli
EU founding father and after which the EU parliament building was named.
Communist who co authored the Ventotene manifesto while imprisoned during the war calling for the establishment of a federal state to overthrow the supremacy of the sovereign state, and provided the underpinning of the European lefts commitment to federalism for the following 40 years.
Italian EU commissioner, inaugural member of the EU parliament, and founder of the crocodile club which drafted the parliamentary legislation that incepted the EU as a legal entity.
Saleen836 said:
NinjaPower said:
I honestly think people will be in for a shock if they really belive that millions of British people will rush out to pick fruit, work on farms, clean hotel toilets, work in kitchens and fast food restaurants, clean hospitals, work shifts in food factories and all sorts of other jobs that society generally classes as undesirable.
Even if you stated giving people £10 an hour or whatever instead of minimum wage there still won't be a stampede.
Correct, as sadly even paying £10 an hour the feckless will do the math and realise they have to work 5/6 days a week 7-9 hours a day for little more (after deductions) than they receive on benefitsEven if you stated giving people £10 an hour or whatever instead of minimum wage there still won't be a stampede.
How times have changed, I used to work on the cabbage harvest on a local farm as a youngster in the school holidays to supplement the workforce. There were loads of kids doing the same and a lot of competition for the work.
Wet and muddy work and you had to be careful with the F big knife you needed to cut the stalks.
The money was welcome to save up for stuff for hobbies that parents wouldn't cough for.
Too many sit in front of the hexbox, PS or spend hours gawping at falsebook, unstablegram, snogchat and the like.
Producers have got used to cheap imported labour for harvesting.
We rely on cheap overseas labour for our imported goods.
Well it looks like we might have to pay more or producers are going to have to think a little harder about their business when their demand for cheap labour can't be met.
Mechanise, pay more or find another source of cheap labour is you starter for three.
Those cheaply produced cakes are no longer available for eating.
Wingo
Wet and muddy work and you had to be careful with the F big knife you needed to cut the stalks.
The money was welcome to save up for stuff for hobbies that parents wouldn't cough for.
Too many sit in front of the hexbox, PS or spend hours gawping at falsebook, unstablegram, snogchat and the like.
Producers have got used to cheap imported labour for harvesting.
We rely on cheap overseas labour for our imported goods.
Well it looks like we might have to pay more or producers are going to have to think a little harder about their business when their demand for cheap labour can't be met.
Mechanise, pay more or find another source of cheap labour is you starter for three.
Those cheaply produced cakes are no longer available for eating.
Wingo
A "communist" institution that stops its members from subsidising the means of production and indeed encourages them to sell state owned enterprises. Err ... OK.
Seriously, given that half the EU member states have recently overthrown their communist dictators, does anyone really think that the EU represents communism by the back door?
By all means criticise the EU for its genuine faults, but claim it's a communist institution? That's completely ridiculous.
Seriously, given that half the EU member states have recently overthrown their communist dictators, does anyone really think that the EU represents communism by the back door?
By all means criticise the EU for its genuine faults, but claim it's a communist institution? That's completely ridiculous.
KrissKross said:
Within 3-5 years there will be robots capable of picking fruit more successfully than humans.
How much do you think they will cost? (A clue: a robot that can help clean a hotel room while it is being supervised by a human is forecast to cost about $250,000 in a few years time.)I imagine at some point we will have cheap robot labour that can pick strawberries. It is not going to happen in the next 5 years. Not a chance.
Johnnytheboy said:
I don't suppose any of the people voting Leave thought it would return Britain's fruit growing industry to the dark days that preceded free movement of labour from Eastern Europe.
There was literally no fruit. No fruit!
Oh, wait...
We used to pick our own fruit, strawberries, raspberries, blackberries in the main. Lovely they were too.There was literally no fruit. No fruit!
Oh, wait...
Gove continues to claim that Brexit can make food cheaper. Wonder if he'd take a bet so I can hedge the price of soft fruit, milk, lamb, etc?
Round here a few farmers have said they voted Leave because they didn't like the EU telling them when not to cut their hedges. I s
t you not.
They were blissfully unaware that the regulations were largely based on recommendations from the UK and were supported by the UK and therefore won't be changed after we leave.
So they've voted to complain about Whitehall rather than Brussels when they can't cut their hedges until the autumn.
And they've voted to jeopardised their access to their main export market, and they've voted to jeopardise the subsidies on which their livelihoods are completely reliant.
Round here a few farmers have said they voted Leave because they didn't like the EU telling them when not to cut their hedges. I s
t you not.They were blissfully unaware that the regulations were largely based on recommendations from the UK and were supported by the UK and therefore won't be changed after we leave.
So they've voted to complain about Whitehall rather than Brussels when they can't cut their hedges until the autumn.
And they've voted to jeopardised their access to their main export market, and they've voted to jeopardise the subsidies on which their livelihoods are completely reliant.
alfie2244 said:
....
I should add I would not expect anyone to do anything I haven't done myself.I have never claimed benefits but in order to raise a young family I have worked as a refuse collector, taxi driver, cleared blocked drains/sewers, night security guard and laboured on building sites...in effect did anything and everything to keep the wolf from my door.
Ok now do your worst
It's irrelevant if you've done job yourself of not. You did those things because you have an 'ingredient' that some people simply don't; pride. I should add I would not expect anyone to do anything I haven't done myself.I have never claimed benefits but in order to raise a young family I have worked as a refuse collector, taxi driver, cleared blocked drains/sewers, night security guard and laboured on building sites...in effect did anything and everything to keep the wolf from my door.
Ok now do your worst
One of the charities that I was involved with was helping people getting back to work. While some of them were genuinely looking for a chance to prove themselves, a huge majority was just not interested. You could overhear them devising ever more elaborate plans on how to get more money of anyone. Family, friends, state, it doesn't really matter to them.
Thinking that any of those people will ever, even for £20/ph go and pick fruit is naive.
jshell said:
Really? The collectivism that seems to be their Utopia, centralised banking, info transfer, removal of Sovereignty, lack of accountability... It's a perfect model of Communism. I can thank an old colleague of mine who escaped from the Ukraine under Communist rule to point this out to me and the mist cleared. She reckoned if you scratch the surface, the EU verges on being worse.
We haven't seen the scale of change that they would like to impose. Brexit has upset the cart. The Euro being a failed currency has upset it too.
We haven't seen the scale of change that they would like to impose. Brexit has upset the cart. The Euro being a failed currency has upset it too.
ATG said:
Gove continues to claim that Brexit can make food cheaper. Wonder if he'd take a bet so I can hedge the price of soft fruit, milk, lamb, etc?
Round here a few farmers have said they voted Leave because they didn't like the EU telling them when not to cut their hedges. I st you not.
They were blissfully unaware that the regulations were largely based on recommendations from the UK and were supported by the UK and therefore won't be changed after we leave.
So they've voted to complain about Whitehall rather than Brussels when they can't cut their hedges until the autumn.
And they've voted to jeopardised their access to their main export market, and they've voted to jeopardise the subsidies on which their livelihoods are completely reliant.
Let's be honest, as much as I respect farmers for their hard work, they're rarely Oxford graduates. Don't expect people who left school to shovel dung all day long to grasp the global economy and laws. Round here a few farmers have said they voted Leave because they didn't like the EU telling them when not to cut their hedges. I s
t you not.They were blissfully unaware that the regulations were largely based on recommendations from the UK and were supported by the UK and therefore won't be changed after we leave.
So they've voted to complain about Whitehall rather than Brussels when they can't cut their hedges until the autumn.
And they've voted to jeopardised their access to their main export market, and they've voted to jeopardise the subsidies on which their livelihoods are completely reliant.
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