Fruit grower voted Leave - sorry now!
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
TBH it was a bit of a rhetorical question, as far as I'm concerned the main reason that governments for the last 2 decades have been allowing uncontrolled immigration is because it makes the GDP figures look healthy... more people = higher GDP, it's that simpleThe government also get a few added bonuses such as it inflates property prices and depresses wages, which is always handy when you want a nation full of poorly paid obedient little workers and mortgage debt slaves.
hairyben said:
Great to see the left using the example of a business model whos survival depends on the race-to-the-bottom wages and working conditions that the eu's unlimited cheap labour has facilitated as something we should mourn. Yeah proper socialist worker ideals there huh.
Absolutely,I always thought the Labour party was there to improve the conditions and pay of the working class not support something that makes the situation a hundred times worse, at least in the 70s 'All out on strike' era their intentions were to help the working class albeit wrong the way they went about it but that's another argument entirely.citizensm1th said:
hairyben said:
So I'll have to pay a few more pence on the pound for strawbs so they can be picked by people earning real money, such an affront to my liberal sensibilities.
You will pay more, but they wont be grown here in the uk they will come from vast green houses in spain .the supermarkets wont be paying more but you will and the eastern europeans working in spain will not be paid any more.
so britian will have lost another little bit of industry and our balance of payments will end up a little bit more unbalanced
Why do you think it was acceptable for the EEC/EU to destroy a thriving UK fishing industry, putting thousands of UK workers out of a job?
Why do you think it is acceptable to import low paid workers from outside the country, whilst at the same time making it easy for those UK nationals (for whom the word `work' is a swear word) who want to sit on their a*ses all day watching Jeremy Kyle, and sucking up benefits?
The first thing which should be done is to get those who think living on benefits is a lifestyle into work, There are too many who are only too happy to have someone else (immigrants) come here to do the work they want to avoid, so that they can parasitically live off the tax money benefits, that those who actually do work generate.
If there was some way the work dodgers could be moved out of the country, whilst retaining those who do want to work, it would be a win, win situation for the workers, and the UK as a whole, and would help avoid downward pressure on wages being caused by an influx of people who are willing to work harder for longer for less, just for the opportunity to get into the UK, or out of the countries they come from where there is no work.
vonuber said:
rxe said:
A business model founded on poles coming over to work for buttons is never a long term thing. Regardless of Brexit, what happens when there is an economic boom in Easter Europe and people no longer want to come over.
Agreed; we just need to pay more for food.Raygun said:
footnote said:
I haven't heard the evidence with my own fine ears but apparently this chap was on R4 Today, saying he'd voted Leave but his business would go bust if he couldn't get slave labor...
.
Sorted it for you. Me thinks it's time he thought about a more profitable business venture rather than whinging..
Jockman said:
Is that the GDP per capita?
No, that's my point, GDP per capita would look very different.Not that GDP (in any form) is actually a useful method of measuring the economy anyway, given that what quantifies GDP changes on a yearly basis and no two nations measure GDP the same way, making it irrelevant for comparative purposes.
CoupeTeddy said:
I thought 4.5% unemployment counted as pretty much full employment according to most economic and financial models?
It's certainly at a decent level (could always be better). Many jobs are now full time / permanent as well. The issue seems to revolve round productivity.
mike74 said:
Jockman said:
Is that the GDP per capita?
No, that's my point, GDP per capita would look very different.Not that GDP (in any form) is actually a useful method of measuring the economy anyway, given that what quantifies GDP changes on a yearly basis and no two nations measure GDP the same way, making it irrelevant for comparative purposes.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Why do you think it is acceptable to import low paid workers from outside the country, whilst at the same time making it easy for those UK nationals (for whom the word `work' is a swear word) who want to sit on their a*ses all day watching Jeremy Kyle, and sucking up benefits?
The first thing which should be done is to get those who think living on benefits is a lifestyle into work, There are too many who are only too happy to have someone else (immigrants) come here to do the work they want to avoid, so that they can parasitically live off the tax money benefits, that those who actually do work generate.
If there was some way the work dodgers could be moved out of the country, whilst retaining those who do want to work, it would be a win, win situation for the workers, and the UK as a whole, and would help avoid downward pressure on wages being caused by an influx of people who are willing to work harder for longer for less, just for the opportunity to get into the UK, or out of the countries they come from where there is no work.
You are stuck in a self-contradiction loop and you cant see out.The first thing which should be done is to get those who think living on benefits is a lifestyle into work, There are too many who are only too happy to have someone else (immigrants) come here to do the work they want to avoid, so that they can parasitically live off the tax money benefits, that those who actually do work generate.
If there was some way the work dodgers could be moved out of the country, whilst retaining those who do want to work, it would be a win, win situation for the workers, and the UK as a whole, and would help avoid downward pressure on wages being caused by an influx of people who are willing to work harder for longer for less, just for the opportunity to get into the UK, or out of the countries they come from where there is no work.
I do not believe the issue is that it is too easy to live on benefits. I believe the issue is that it is too difficult to get a job.
As per the other poster - 3 part time minimum wage opportunities had over 100 applicants each. That tells you something right there.
How does earning mimimum wage picking fruit, probably with no secured employment but subject to demand, sit by the phone and wait for a call so long as its not raining, doing unpredictable and unsociable hours PAYE, that means you need help getting the kids to and from school, means you go through a process of ceasing benefits and paying rent etc, then signing back on when the work dries up, then back off, each time being told you are not eligible because you have employment options, help?
Not to mention its a pretty gruelling job picking fruit and you have to be relatively strong and fit.
How does that existence help? Could you survive like that? What makes you or anyone else on this board any better? Because you are one of the lucky ones? You think, given the opportunity, someone on benefits could not do your job better than you?
Its a complicated thing. Low paid / unemployed tend to be more hungry. I speak from experience. But its a dark place to be with no light at the end of the tunnel. It robs you of your self-esteem, your comfidence, your belief in yourself- all the things you need for a successful interview for any job. You turn up for an interview, if you can get one, that has 100 other applicants so the odds are against you anyway. How do you get out of that. Its not that people enjoy being on benefits, its that it becomes a self-fulfilling loop.
Does anyone on here really thing that in the next 5-10 years they are not themselves extremely likely to be on the dole? Does anybody on here with young children really believe their kids arent going to spend the majority of their 20s, if not their 30s, 40s and 50s, without secure employment and no hoppe of a car, house, holiday, etc. Their is a real prospect that your kids will become the "feckless" you all demonize on here.
mike74 said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
TBH it was a bit of a rhetorical question, as far as I'm concerned the main reason that governments for the last 2 decades have been allowing uncontrolled immigration is because it makes the GDP figures look healthy... more people = higher GDP, it's that simpleThe government also get a few added bonuses such as it inflates property prices and depresses wages, which is always handy when you want a nation full of poorly paid obedient little workers and mortgage debt slaves.
Farming has always been reliant on low wage labour, so it was a bit of a WTF moment for me, when the rural communities seemed to overwhelmingly vote Leave.
The second WTF moment was hearing farmers say they are glad they voted to leave the EU.......but still want their crop subsidies. So they now have to trust a UK government to redirect the money that they paid into the EU, direct to the farmer ?????
Well I'm sure that will be OK.
The second WTF moment was hearing farmers say they are glad they voted to leave the EU.......but still want their crop subsidies. So they now have to trust a UK government to redirect the money that they paid into the EU, direct to the farmer ?????
Well I'm sure that will be OK.
BOR said:
Farming has always been reliant on low wage labour, so it was a bit of a WTF moment for me, when the rural communities seemed to overwhelmingly vote Leave.
The second WTF moment was hearing farmers say they are glad they voted to leave the EU.......but still want their crop subsidies. So they now have to trust a UK government to redirect the money that they paid into the EU, direct to the farmer ?????
Well I'm sure that will be OK.
As posted by WoD on another thread....The second WTF moment was hearing farmers say they are glad they voted to leave the EU.......but still want their crop subsidies. So they now have to trust a UK government to redirect the money that they paid into the EU, direct to the farmer ?????
Well I'm sure that will be OK.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/nicola-sturgeon-forced-a...
EU is about to fine the Scottish Govt again.
Since when did leaving the EU mean no more immigrants to pick fruit?
If we need fruit pickers, fruit pickers we shall have.
Targeted immigration. I have an example of how this works: Where I live there was a shortage of good looking sex workers. This was seen by the government as a bit of a problem. Solution - a sex worker's visa.
You could have a fruit-picker's visa.
If we need fruit pickers, fruit pickers we shall have.
Targeted immigration. I have an example of how this works: Where I live there was a shortage of good looking sex workers. This was seen by the government as a bit of a problem. Solution - a sex worker's visa.
You could have a fruit-picker's visa.
s2art said:
footnote said:
I haven't heard the evidence with my own fine ears but apparently this chap was on R4 Today, saying he'd voted Leave but his business would go bust if he couldn't get migrant workers...
I know'll I'll be sorry when there's no great British strawberries - but you can only laugh.
We had seasonal workers visas long before the EEC let alone the EU. There will be seasonal workers visas after we leave. Its not a problem.I know'll I'll be sorry when there's no great British strawberries - but you can only laugh.
If ever there was an example of the futility of Brexit it is right here. On the one hand moan about all that EU regulation stifling business, and then want it replaced with even more regulation.
Brexit is some socialists wet dream.
Ayahuasca said:
Since when did leaving the EU mean no more immigrants to pick fruit?
If we need fruit pickers, fruit pickers we shall have.
Targeted immigration. I have an example of how this works: Where I live there was a shortage of good looking sex workers. This was seen by the government as a bit of a problem. Solution - a sex worker's visa.
You could have a fruit-picker's visa.
The bigger issue may be the financial attractiveness. If we need fruit pickers, fruit pickers we shall have.
Targeted immigration. I have an example of how this works: Where I live there was a shortage of good looking sex workers. This was seen by the government as a bit of a problem. Solution - a sex worker's visa.
You could have a fruit-picker's visa.
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