Why should we care about homeless ex servicemen?
Discussion
Private enterprise doesn't have the time or inclination to reprogramme people from "good for military service" to "functional civilian" when there are plenty of functional civilians out there. You could offer a tax break to a company employing ex-servicemen, but surely it'd be more efficient to make sure that people are leaving the army in a fit state to function in normal society from day 1?
Kermit power said:
98elise said:
Your mate is a Walt. That's story makes no sense on so many levels.
RFA's are not RN. RN do not feed into SF, you would need to be a marine first. Nobody is drafted into SF you apply for it, and it has a very high failure rate.
As far as I'm aware, anyone in any of the three forces can now apply for the SBS, but in reality yes, of course the majority of them are Marines.RFA's are not RN. RN do not feed into SF, you would need to be a marine first. Nobody is drafted into SF you apply for it, and it has a very high failure rate.
That doesn't make the original story any more plausible, of course.
Put it this way, if you wanted to move to the RN to RM you would need start from basic training, so imagine trying to move from RN to SBS.
PS I am aware RM and SBS are technically part of the Navy
I think that there needs to be post service care, which does mean more then now and we have not even started to see the repercussion from Iraq and Afghanistan, the sights and stresses that people have been put through was akin to WWI, however we should be better by now at supporting the mental stress and personal battles which serving induces.
Do all ex service men require extra, no not all, but many will do and are also a group of men and women for whom trust, friendship and support provide great comfort, when you leave and feel unwanted it does play on the mind.
I feel the same with police and firemen and NHS staff, it is my view that people who do jobs where they get to see things normal folk don't are returned something to say thank you.
At this time we as a country do not provide this.
Do all ex service men require extra, no not all, but many will do and are also a group of men and women for whom trust, friendship and support provide great comfort, when you leave and feel unwanted it does play on the mind.
I feel the same with police and firemen and NHS staff, it is my view that people who do jobs where they get to see things normal folk don't are returned something to say thank you.
At this time we as a country do not provide this.
98elise said:
Kermit power said:
98elise said:
Your mate is a Walt. That's story makes no sense on so many levels.
RFA's are not RN. RN do not feed into SF, you would need to be a marine first. Nobody is drafted into SF you apply for it, and it has a very high failure rate.
As far as I'm aware, anyone in any of the three forces can now apply for the SBS, but in reality yes, of course the majority of them are Marines.RFA's are not RN. RN do not feed into SF, you would need to be a marine first. Nobody is drafted into SF you apply for it, and it has a very high failure rate.
That doesn't make the original story any more plausible, of course.
Put it this way, if you wanted to move to the RN to RM you would need start from basic training, so imagine trying to move from RN to SBS.
PS I am aware RM and SBS are technically part of the Navy
As far as I'm aware, a bloke could spend 18 months polishing aircraft windscreens in the RAF before applying, but I doubt any ever have.
Mothersruin said:
Oceanic said:
I think a starting point is why people join in the first place.
LGo on then, why do people join in the first place?.Edited by Oceanic on Saturday 24th June 23:35
Homelessness is basically a form of mental illness. There is no reason for someone to be sleeping under a bridge in modern Britain, even in the poorest third-world-like parts up north where money is tight. Society should help the homeless, especially ex-servicepeople, as they are not well and need treatment.
Yipper said:
Why-ever servicepeople join, the end-fact is, they are prepared to stand between me and a baddie, so for that reason alone they deserve special treatment by society.
Perhaps that's what they sign up for, but they all get shipped out for corporate and political wars.The last action that was vaguely protective was the Falklands. No war we've been involved since has been for our benefit. Murdering Gaddafi or guarding opium in Afghanistan, it's not for us.
They are basically an expense and once they are useless they are dropped and it's onto the fresh meat. Now the fresh meat candidates have caught a sight of the grinder recruitment is dropping off, just like cows in a slaughter house who figure out the game.
Fancy signing up to shoot some Syrians and bleed to death in a cloud of depleted uranium dust? Not quite the story of defending Little Johnny and his mum from the invading baddies is it?
If our government actually valued these servicemen they would be well looked after, but they don't, they are just useful pawns. It's the same in the US, wounded and scarred veterans left to fend for themselves, ending up homeless or in prison.
For me I consider the government responsible for all of their injuries and each one should be able to sue for multi million £ compensation, just as sure as an MP would if he slipped on a banana skin in the canteen and damaged his back.
Then we may even stop sending them to their deaths and life changing injuries and save thousands of a whole new generation. They sued the banks for PPI but the contract people sign up with is worse. Much worse.
Globs said:
Perhaps that's what they sign up for, but they all get shipped out for corporate and political wars.
The last action that was vaguely protective was the Falklands. No war we've been involved since has been for our benefit. Murdering Gaddafi or guarding opium in Afghanistan, it's not for us.
To be fair, the freaks in Serbia needed stopping. However, I was less than impressed when I found all my efforts in GW2 were due to a dodgy 'A' Level paper that wasn't 'sexed up' in any way, to make things sound sooo much more dangerous. BLiar, I mean you!......The last action that was vaguely protective was the Falklands. No war we've been involved since has been for our benefit. Murdering Gaddafi or guarding opium in Afghanistan, it's not for us.
Globs said:
For me I consider the government responsible for all of their injuries and each one should be able to sue for multi million £ compensation, just as sure as an MP would if he slipped on a banana skin in the canteen and damaged his back.
Then we may even stop sending them to their deaths and life changing injuries and save thousands of a whole new generation. They sued the banks for PPI but the contract people sign up with is worse. Much worse.
When you see how some Ex-Servicemen have been abandoned, compared to the RAF Civilian Typist who picked up £450000 for RSI in the late 90's (?) You have to wonder.....Then we may even stop sending them to their deaths and life changing injuries and save thousands of a whole new generation. They sued the banks for PPI but the contract people sign up with is worse. Much worse.
As others have said, many of the homeless have mental issues. If ex-servicemen, we should certainly also give due attention to what caused those issues - but not overlook the simple fact that all the others with mental issues should also not be left out on the streets.
Our attitude to mental health - and caring for those less fortunate than ourselves - still needs to move up a good many notches.
Fat Fairy said:
Globs said:
For me I consider the government responsible for all of their injuries and each one should be able to sue for multi million £ compensation, just as sure as an MP would if he slipped on a banana skin in the canteen and damaged his back.
Then we may even stop sending them to their deaths and life changing injuries and save thousands of a whole new generation. They sued the banks for PPI but the contract people sign up with is worse. Much worse.
When you see how some Ex-Servicemen have been abandoned, compared to the RAF Civilian Typist who picked up £450000 for RSI in the late 90's (?) You have to wonder.....Then we may even stop sending them to their deaths and life changing injuries and save thousands of a whole new generation. They sued the banks for PPI but the contract people sign up with is worse. Much worse.
In stark contrast to the poor examples of humanity above, Major Peter Norton, GC (citation here) simply changed his signature on the Arrse forum to something like "Gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology. We have the capability to... Hang on... what do you mean some civvie typist just got awarded £500k and there's no bloody money left!" and carried on helping raise support and money for others.
I've had more than one occasion since then when I've stopped to help a stranger out with something simple where previously I might've just walked on past. I figure if someone can go through injuries like that and still come out the other end smiling, helping others and laughing at adversity, who am I to get the hump about trivial inconveniences in life?
In regards to the sf chap, in may be able to offer a degree of insight into this...
I was a combat medic in the TA years ago, I left when I qualified as a civvy paramedic. i tried to rejoin a few years ago, this time as artillery but an old injury out paid to that. However, my local ta unit shares a barracks with a local sas ta unit and the recruiting officer suggested as a medic, I may get attached to sf for training (support of their chaps) and that they quite often lrovided drivers/ sigs etc to support the sf guys. I'm not sure why they'd want a navy signaller but there's a lot more people involved in sf than the guys on the front end, perhaps he was support?
I was a combat medic in the TA years ago, I left when I qualified as a civvy paramedic. i tried to rejoin a few years ago, this time as artillery but an old injury out paid to that. However, my local ta unit shares a barracks with a local sas ta unit and the recruiting officer suggested as a medic, I may get attached to sf for training (support of their chaps) and that they quite often lrovided drivers/ sigs etc to support the sf guys. I'm not sure why they'd want a navy signaller but there's a lot more people involved in sf than the guys on the front end, perhaps he was support?
Fat Fairy said:
To be fair, the freaks in Serbia needed stopping.
I thought the same at the time.Looks like we were lied to again though, just another regime change op.
Remember how Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad, NK's Kim and Putin are demonised. (also notice the ones still standing have nukes...)
Check out Milosevic, who was recently pardoned by some court - too late for him now of course.
http://www.michaelparenti.org/Milosevic.html
Also the US said they cared about the civilians but left their country polluted for the next 10 billion years or so:
http://theduran.com/confirmed-lawyers-for-serbian-...
Sometimes people wonder why I don't believe a word any government says LOL.
Kermit power said:
98elise said:
Your mate is a Walt. That's story makes no sense on so many levels.
RFA's are not RN. RN do not feed into SF, you would need to be a marine first. Nobody is drafted into SF you apply for it, and it has a very high failure rate.
As far as I'm aware, anyone in any of the three forces can now apply for the SBS, but in reality yes, of course the majority of them are Marines.RFA's are not RN. RN do not feed into SF, you would need to be a marine first. Nobody is drafted into SF you apply for it, and it has a very high failure rate.
That doesn't make the original story any more plausible, of course.
Globs said:
Fat Fairy said:
To be fair, the freaks in Serbia needed stopping.
I thought the same at the time.Looks like we were lied to again though, just another regime change op.
Remember how Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad, NK's Kim and Putin are demonised. (also notice the ones still standing have nukes...)
Check out Milosevic, who was recently pardoned by some court - too late for him now of course.
http://www.michaelparenti.org/Milosevic.html
Also the US said they cared about the civilians but left their country polluted for the next 10 billion years or so:
http://theduran.com/confirmed-lawyers-for-serbian-...
Sometimes people wonder why I don't believe a word any government says LOL.
And, it was not all one way either apparently. Not done enough research on that though. I'm glad I wasn't involved with some of the 'clean ups' etc that some were. There must have been a few sights that could not be unseen
FF
98elise said:
Your mate is a Walt. That's story makes no sense on so many levels.
RFA's are not RN. RN do not feed into SF, you would need to be a marine first. Nobody is drafted into SF you apply for it, and it has a very high failure rate.
SF Communicator? Sounds more reasonable. They do recruit from all three arms.RFA's are not RN. RN do not feed into SF, you would need to be a marine first. Nobody is drafted into SF you apply for it, and it has a very high failure rate.
Edited by 98elise on Sunday 25th June 07:48
LordHaveMurci said:
Kermit power said:
98elise said:
Your mate is a Walt. That's story makes no sense on so many levels.
RFA's are not RN. RN do not feed into SF, you would need to be a marine first. Nobody is drafted into SF you apply for it, and it has a very high failure rate.
As far as I'm aware, anyone in any of the three forces can now apply for the SBS, but in reality yes, of course the majority of them are Marines.RFA's are not RN. RN do not feed into SF, you would need to be a marine first. Nobody is drafted into SF you apply for it, and it has a very high failure rate.
That doesn't make the original story any more plausible, of course.
King Herald said:
How long before every homeless male on the streets claims to be an ex serviceman? I see several bums in my home town, none of them look like they spent a minute in uniform.
Yeah, I met a chap who claimed to have recognised the jack of spades in Iraq or Afghanistan and got him raided by SF.Whatever. I was sitting in the train station pub waiting for my train, and he apologised for waffling on and bought me a (2nd) pint. Fair trade.
Fat Fairy said:
Not defending anyone, least of all US politicians (or our own) but away from the political side, there was still https://www.britannica.com/event/Srebrenica-massac...
And, it was not all one way either apparently. Not done enough research on that though. I'm glad I wasn't involved with some of the 'clean ups' etc that some were. There must have been a few sights that could not be unseen
FF
No worries, I know you were not defending anyone, neither am I really, it's just a chat about history, nothing any of us could have done then or now. The phrase 'History is written by the winners' gains in truth for me a little bit more each year:And, it was not all one way either apparently. Not done enough research on that though. I'm glad I wasn't involved with some of the 'clean ups' etc that some were. There must have been a few sights that could not be unseen
FF
Britannica said:
The media-hyped story of how the Serbs allegedly killed 7,000 Muslims in Srebrenica is uncritically accepted by Sell, even though the most thorough investigations have uncovered not more than 2,000 bodies of undetermined nationality. The earlier massacres carried out by Muslims, their razing of some fifty Serbian villages around Srebrenica, as reported by two British correspondents and others, are ignored. The complete failure of Western forensic teams to locate the 250,000 or 100,000 or 50,000 or 10,000 bodies (the numbers kept changing) of Albanians supposedly murdered by the Serbs in Kosovo also goes unnoticed.
I find in unlikely that he did Srebrenica, it sounds rather familiar - a bit like Assad's barrel bombs and gas attacks to me, just all a bit too evil, convenient and entirely without motive. One has to remember our side who accused Milosevic knew Saddam was innocent but still went in and murdered 1.5millions people and set up ISIS.I always find a 'crime' that is the pivot for mass bombings and invasions to be fake and false.
Milosevic being exonerated by the ICTY:
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/354362-slobodan-milosev...
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff