Tory-DUP Confidence And Supply deal

Wednesday 28th June 2017

gooner1 said:

sidicks said:

p1stonhead said:

It's amazing how a cartoon can distort a one off payment of £1bn and make it look bigger than an annual payment of £750bn...

It's amazing that you came to that conclusion.

Imagine if it was Coalition by Labour of SNP, Greens, Plaid Cymru, Sinn Fein etc etc what the so called 'Bung' would have cost but then they'd think nothing of spending whatever it took to get into power. Oh hold they couldn't as they still wouldn't have enough seats for a majority even doing that.

Democracy doesn't always get you what you voted for but it's better than (although debatable) a dictatorship. The main/only advantage of a dictatorship is 'things' get done rather than the perception of endless dithering and debate of democracy.

BMWBen

4,899 posts

201 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017

Jockman said:

BMWBen said:

Jockman said:

gooner1 said:

turbobloke said:

gooner1 said:

With regard to the younger generation, specifically the "entitlement culture" species.
How have they turned out this way. Nurture or Nature.
Previous generations have hardly been a beacon of light to them, imo.

FWIW, I think that in times of real adversary, the young ones wouldn't be so different
than previous generations.

They've got off to a bad start, blaming boomers for their own ills.

Just as previous generations blamed previous generations, round and round we go rotate

You don't consider they, the younger generation, may well have a point?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/07/gene...

I suppose it depends which picture you use? Yours is obviously crisper than mine.

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/money-matters/claiming-ben...

You can't take individual anecdotal cases and claim that they disprove a trend. Yes, some old people are not well off. That doesn't mean that on the whole, old people are not much better off than they used to be and young people aren't much worse off than they used to be.

Of course some are better off. Completely agree.

The article does however highlight the 1.6m Pensioners who live on or below the poverty line. Not just a single case.

Your choice of words is misleading. It's *most*, not *some*. I'm not saying that those 1.6m pensioners don't have a problem. The fact is that *most* pensioners now are much better off than pensioners used to be and *most* young people are much worse off than young people used to be.

103,966 posts

260 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017

BMWBen said:

Jockman said:

BMWBen said:

Jockman said:

gooner1 said:

turbobloke said:

gooner1 said:

With regard to the younger generation, specifically the "entitlement culture" species.
How have they turned out this way. Nurture or Nature.
Previous generations have hardly been a beacon of light to them, imo.

FWIW, I think that in times of real adversary, the young ones wouldn't be so different
than previous generations.

They've got off to a bad start, blaming boomers for their own ills.

Just as previous generations blamed previous generations, round and round we go rotate

You don't consider they, the younger generation, may well have a point?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/07/gene...

I suppose it depends which picture you use? Yours is obviously crisper than mine.

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/money-matters/claiming-ben...

You can't take individual anecdotal cases and claim that they disprove a trend. Yes, some old people are not well off. That doesn't mean that on the whole, old people are not much better off than they used to be and young people aren't much worse off than they used to be.

Of course some are better off. Completely agree.

The article does however highlight the 1.6m Pensioners who live on or below the poverty line. Not just a single case.

Your choice of words is misleading. It's *most*, not *some*. I'm not saying that those 1.6m pensioners don't have a problem. The fact is that *most* pensioners now are much better off than pensioners used to be and *most* young people are much worse off than young people used to be.

Used to be...how and when exactly - presumably an era of your own selective choosing?

Boomers such as my brother didn't create their conditions, they maximised benefit from them which arose from political decisions made by people who tended to be older than they were at the time. Blame is quite inapplicable in this context. Young people need to concentrate on making the most of what's available to them, as previous generations tended to do without the same level of complaint.

BMWBen

4,899 posts

201 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017

turbobloke said:

BMWBen said:

Jockman said:

BMWBen said:

Jockman said:

gooner1 said:

turbobloke said:

gooner1 said:

With regard to the younger generation, specifically the "entitlement culture" species.
How have they turned out this way. Nurture or Nature.
Previous generations have hardly been a beacon of light to them, imo.

FWIW, I think that in times of real adversary, the young ones wouldn't be so different
than previous generations.

They've got off to a bad start, blaming boomers for their own ills.

Just as previous generations blamed previous generations, round and round we go rotate

You don't consider they, the younger generation, may well have a point?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/07/gene...

I suppose it depends which picture you use? Yours is obviously crisper than mine.

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/money-matters/claiming-ben...

You can't take individual anecdotal cases and claim that they disprove a trend. Yes, some old people are not well off. That doesn't mean that on the whole, old people are not much better off than they used to be and young people aren't much worse off than they used to be.

Of course some are better off. Completely agree.

The article does however highlight the 1.6m Pensioners who live on or below the poverty line. Not just a single case.

Your choice of words is misleading. It's *most*, not *some*. I'm not saying that those 1.6m pensioners don't have a problem. The fact is that *most* pensioners now are much better off than pensioners used to be and *most* young people are much worse off than young people used to be.

Used to be...how and when exactly - presumably an era of your own selective choosing?

Boomers such as my brother didn't create their conditions, they maximised benefit from them which arose from political decisions made by people who tended to be older than they were at the time. Blame is quite inapplicable in this context. Young people need to concentrate on making the most of what's available to them, as previous generations tended to do without the same level of complaint.

Nice rose tinted glasses - unfortunately the facts just don't support your view. It's about distribution of capital. Of the money being made by wage earners now, a higher proportion is going to paying for pension liabilities for those who have already retired, and the people who are working are not being offered the same benefit for when they reach retirement age.

In short, young people are working and more of the their output/productivity is paying for old people rather than ending up in their pocket than it has done in the past.

In addition, you have to look at the housing market. In order to own the average home today, a young person has to pay (on average) 7.6 times their annual wage. Double what it was 20 years ago.

Where does that money go? They're paying that money in a lump sum, to old people who own the houses, who are then drawing it down to pay for their retirement or just stuffing it under the mattress. The old person who owns the home has not put anything like the amount of money into it that they're getting out of it. The young person is probably only going to get out roughly exactly what they put in. No matter what way you look at it it's a simple transfer of wealth from young to old.

Of course previous generations didn't complain about their situation... it was great. The current situation is awful for younger generations, and "making the most of it" doesn't change a thing!

gooner1

10,223 posts

179 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017

Previous generations didn't just "get on with it" either.
The Iraqi war demos were arguably the highest "attended" in the UK ever.
The Poll tax demos were arguably the end of M.Thatcher, as were the 3 day strikes the down fall of T.Heath. That's just off the top off my addled old bonce

103,966 posts

260 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017

BMWBen said:

Nice rose tinted glasses - unfortunately the facts just don't support your view. It's about distribution of capital.

. . . . .

Of course previous generations didn't complain about their situation... it was great. The current situation is awful for younger generations, and "making the most of it" doesn't change a thing!

It's about distribution of capital if a narrow perspective is maintained, and the points above about complaints and (not) making the best of things serve as excellent illustrations.

My boomer brother is more than 10 years older than me. We would both have had two more brothers but they didn't survive infancy.

Infant mortality in the UK has reduced from 10 per 1000 live births to below 4 in less than 40 years.

It's a curious hypothetical question, but I have to suspect that the two brothers I never met would have settled for a student loan and working longer for a house deposit if they could have survived to live rewarding lives beyond infancy, bearing in mind that more than single figures or low double figuires (as a percentage) get to attend university these days to have the opportunity to repay a student loan.You can't complain about mortgages and debt if you died decades ago.

This type of narrow perspective, where major benefits around health and longevity accruing to recent generations are ignored completely in favour of trivia around houses, makes it easier for those from earlier generations to regard the whining subset of youth of today as ignorant, spoilt and self-indulgent.

There's definitely a case for making the most of opportunities, in any era. Blame transfer doesn't offer the same potential.

This is some way off the DUP bribe so I'll leave it there.

Edited by turbobloke on Wednesday 28th June 17:50

citizensm1th

8,371 posts

137 months

Wednesday 28th June 2017

what a load of utter b

ks

who was it that banded together in kensington and chelsea?

f

king aliens?

it was local people of all ages it was even commented on at the time "london blitz spirit"

who was it that also banded together in manchester after the concert bomb?

f

king bunch of miserable

s on here sometimes

103,966 posts

260 months

Thursday 29th June 2017

citizensm1th said:

what a load of utter b

ks

who was it that banded together in kensington and chelsea?

f

king aliens?

it was local people of all ages it was even commented on at the time "london blitz spirit"

who was it that also banded together in manchester after the concert bomb?

f

king bunch of miserable

s on here sometimes

Having just accidentally caught an earful of the proverbial from Owen Jones on the BBC, with blatant lies spouted for quite some time and totally unchallenged, I can now see that sixth-formers everywhere have a super role model. I hope his school takes him back.

It was also excellent preparation for a quick read of PH, albeit without the expletives.

Whatever happened to the DUP bribe thread?!

mikebradford

2,520 posts

145 months

Thursday 29th June 2017

turbobloke said:

Having just accidentally caught an earful of the proverbial from Owen Jones on the BBC, with blatant lies spouted for quite some time and totally unchallenged,

Caught this myself.
Typical current news segment, in that he couldnt simply answer the question. He then had to real off the standard labour BS.
I do feel that Labour & its supporters now state the Conservative slogans more than TM ever did.

He simply couldn't see the irony in that the strong and stable leadership he kept referring to negatively, actually resulted in the failing of labour yesterday to overturn the pay cap.
"All ten DUP MPs voted with the government on the vote, while not a single Tory rebelled to back the amendment."
It may not be as strong as Conservatives would like, but it got the job done.

Edited by mikebradford on Thursday 29th June 07:51

V8A*ndy

3,695 posts

191 months

Thursday 29th June 2017

turbobloke said:

Whatever happened to the DUP bribe thread?!

Come back in two years when they ask for another couple of BILLION.

Thread might just come back on track then....

Which reminds me. Which NI MP said this a few weeks ago?

'If you feed a crocodile it will keep coming back for more' hehe

103,966 posts

260 months

Thursday 29th June 2017

As the Queen's Speech gets a clear majority in the HoC an amendment from Chuka Umunna aimed at preserving the UK's EU single market membership fails badly.

Given this is definitely not Labour Party policy, their MPs were told to abstain - but 51 rebelled. Corbyn needs to get his house in order and Owen Jones needs a new script.

Art0ir

9,401 posts

170 months

Sunday 2nd July 2017

sidicks said:

The current DUP are not terrorists.

They have clear and blatant links to paramilitaries in NI, even in 2017. They don't even try to hide it.

They're just gangsters and drug dealers now instead of sectarian murderers.

XCP

16,916 posts

228 months

Monday 3rd July 2017

and yet they get more seats than anyone else in NI.

Art0ir

9,401 posts

170 months

Monday 3rd July 2017

XCP said:

and yet they get more seats than anyone else in NI.

I wouldn't dare to dispute it. Politics in NI is a farce on all sides.

Ructions

4,705 posts

121 months

Tuesday 4th July 2017

Please take a moment to appreciate the thumping Norn Irony of Arlene Foster, with days to go until the 12th, uttering the words ‘what we can’t see is one section of the community having cultural supremacy over the other’

https://www.facebook.com/BELFASTLAD/videos/6528090...

FN2TypeR

7,091 posts

93 months