Discussion
Vizsla said:
scrubchub said:
My mother in law is a fully fledged member of Charlie's Army, and the other day made an off the cuff remark that America should bomb Britain if Charlie wasn't allowed to leave GOSH.
I'm sorry to have to point out to you that your MIL is a f
king cretin (but then you probably already know that).PorkInsider said:
I had a look on mumsnet to see what the screeching harpies on there had to say about it all and found a post related to Wiccan's explanations, which someone must have linked or copied over.
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2987797-C...
Scroll to the post at 19:31 and it sounds like they decided Wiccan was talking bks as there is talk of 'debunked'.
I wouldn't waste your time trying to spread some knowledge in their direction, Wiccan, as they apparently know better and you were 'mansplaining'.
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2987797-C...
Scroll to the post at 19:31 and it sounds like they decided Wiccan was talking b
ks as there is talk of 'debunked'.I wouldn't waste your time trying to spread some knowledge in their direction, Wiccan, as they apparently know better and you were 'mansplaining'.
What I find really concerning is reading some of the less scientifically informed and more erm...emotionally influenced parts of the internet is just how stupid people can be. This whole "We don't know anything about medicine or science but we are right anyway" attitude is absolutely appalling. The way social media has been used to draw gullible people into this cause is sad to watch, just have a look at the Charlie's Army thing on Twitter, as they try to outdo each other to show how aggressively they care about this child.
They don't even show any signs of slowing, despite the fact that the clinicians have now made a statement to say that if Charlie's brain has any contact with the outside world at all, that the only stimulus he feels is pain. But of course, the experts don't know what they're talking about, a bunch of uneducated people that "care" know what is best.
They don't even show any signs of slowing, despite the fact that the clinicians have now made a statement to say that if Charlie's brain has any contact with the outside world at all, that the only stimulus he feels is pain. But of course, the experts don't know what they're talking about, a bunch of uneducated people that "care" know what is best.
Edited by Mastodon2 on Tuesday 25th July 11:38
hairykrishna said:
I do wonder what the parents friends have been up to. I can understand the parents being bit less than rational but it's fairly obvious to anyone with a bit of distance from the case that poor kids had no chance and that the parents actions were not productive. I know that if I were ever in such a situation one of my friends would have sat me down and had a frank talk with me.
If I were one of their friends I would just be keeping my distance. They wouldn't want to hear my opinion no matter how good my intentions were. And anyway if they are not willing to listen to numerous medical experts why would they listen to their mate who has no clue? All their mates can really do is help them with grieving and moving on. Mastodon2 said:
What I find really concerning is reading some of the less scientifically informed and more erm...emotionally driven influenced parts of the internet is just how stupid people can be. This whole "We don't know anything about medicine or science but we are right anyway" attitude is absolutely appalling. The way social media has been used to draw gullible people into this cause is sad to watch, just have a look at the Charlie's Army thing on Twitter, as they try to outdo each other to show how aggressively they care about this child.
They don't even show any signs of slowing, despite the fact that the clinicians have now made a statement to say that if Charlie's brain has any contact with the outside world at all, that the only stimulus he feels is pain. But of course, the experts don't know what they're talking about, a bunch of uneducated people that "care" know what is best.
The problem is that although everyone is entitled to their own opinion, there are millions of idiots out there who believe they are entitled to their own facts. They don't even show any signs of slowing, despite the fact that the clinicians have now made a statement to say that if Charlie's brain has any contact with the outside world at all, that the only stimulus he feels is pain. But of course, the experts don't know what they're talking about, a bunch of uneducated people that "care" know what is best.
FN2TypeR said:
PorkInsider said:
I had a look on mumsnet to see what the screeching harpies on there had to say about it all and found a post related to Wiccan's explanations, which someone must have linked or copied over.
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2987797-C...
Scroll to the post at 19:31 and it sounds like they decided Wiccan was talking bks as there is talk of 'debunked'.
I wouldn't waste your time trying to spread some knowledge in their direction, Wiccan, as they apparently know better and you were 'mansplaining'.
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2987797-C...
Scroll to the post at 19:31 and it sounds like they decided Wiccan was talking b
ks as there is talk of 'debunked'.I wouldn't waste your time trying to spread some knowledge in their direction, Wiccan, as they apparently know better and you were 'mansplaining'.
It's just one post but suggests mumsnet have read what I wrote, either didn't understand it and needed more mansplaining or got huffy because a man just happened to be able to a) know what he was talking about and b) be able to explain a complex subject fairly eloquently. Meanwhile, I had a little peek at their forums and they're not too happy about Charlies Army. But the extent of mumsnets technical knowledge so far have been pasted extracts from wikipedia.
I'm interested to know how they managed to come to the conclusion that information (as opposed to hypothesis) can be debunked. There's 15 threads of comments on mumsnet and right now I don't have time to trawl through them all. But I have found one or two disturbing trends; firstly the worrying number of 'instant factual twists' where a statement is reinterpreted to something that is incorrect, peddled as fact and then run with. Secondly, any posts that have criticised the parents have been removed by the mods. I guess on mumsnet, free speech is greatly encouraged especially if it bashes men and pistonheads but criticising parents is a big no-no. One of the mumsnet mods has posted that any posts criticising the parents will be removed.
I thought it was odd even to describe it as "mansplaining". Your original post was on PH, so the readers of it would have been overwhelmingly male. Copying and pasting it to mumsnet and then complaining about "mansplaining" makes me think someone needs to mansplain to them what mansplaining actually is.
Zigster said:
I thought it was odd even to describe it as "mansplaining". Your original post was on PH, so the readers of it would have been overwhelmingly male. Copying and pasting it to mumsnet and then complaining about "mansplaining" makes me think someone needs to mansplain to them what mansplaining actually is.
I thought that.Mansplaining is a man condescendingly explaining something to a woman, that she already knows, because he thinks she's thick.
This was a case of a man, without condescension, explaining something to other men, that, speaking for myself, I didn't know, because I am thick.
It couldn't be further from mansplaining if you tried.
m444ttb said:
Perhaps they tossed a coin for the latest term to try and invalidate an argument. If not mansplaining it would be have been fake news I suspect.
Don't get me on 'Fake News'!!! Just popped on to FB to see what everyone I stalking about and my God! The comments and nonsense on there is unbelievable.... truly unnerving.We are all doomed If that is what the world is coming to.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Zigster said:
I thought it was odd even to describe it as "mansplaining". Your original post was on PH, so the readers of it would have been overwhelmingly male. Copying and pasting it to mumsnet and then complaining about "mansplaining" makes me think someone needs to mansplain to them what mansplaining actually is.
I thought that.Mansplaining is a man condescendingly explaining something to a woman, that she already knows, because he thinks she's thick.
This was a case of a man, without condescension, explaining something to other men, that, speaking for myself, I didn't know, because I am thick.
It couldn't be further from mansplaining if you tried.
king mental.I couldn't be arsed to trawl the thousands (many thousands - that place is bloody huge!) of posts to find where it first came up but it looks someone from here's wife/whoever posted a link saying there were some posts on here which explained things in layman's (probably 'laywoman's terms' on there) terms and they should take a look.
They are not done yet.
bbc News said:
Lawyers for Chris Gard and Connie Yates told the High Court they wanted "a few days of tranquillity outside the hospital before Charlie passes away".
They accused Great Ormond Street Hospital (GOSH) of putting "obstacles" in the way of Charlie's return home.
But the hospital said Charlie's parents had refused an offer of mediation.
From: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-40716292They accused Great Ormond Street Hospital (GOSH) of putting "obstacles" in the way of Charlie's return home.
But the hospital said Charlie's parents had refused an offer of mediation.
I'm truly lost for words. I can't pretend to be able to understand how Charlie's parents feel, but it is clear from everything that has been published about the case that the poor little bugger is feeling pain, and in intensive care. How moving him away from a palliative care regime in a hospital monitored by Doctors and Nurses to his home could be in his best interests is beyond me.
I just made the mistake of looking at #charliegard tweets on twitter. It is genuinely staggering how much stupid can be squeezed into so few characters.
The number of Americans posting about "socialised healthcare" and "single-payer healthcare" and "death panels" is phenomenal. How can they be so confused about the situation? Can they honestly think that the situation would have panned out better in the US?
The number of Americans posting about "socialised healthcare" and "single-payer healthcare" and "death panels" is phenomenal. How can they be so confused about the situation? Can they honestly think that the situation would have panned out better in the US?
Charlie Gard`s parents, have been fantastic in all of this, and no one can blame them for doing everything they could, to keep him going, (even if from an objective view it was unlikely to be successful) but the saying where there is life, there is hope, must have been so very strong for them,
Perhaps they can console themselves with, the thought, that they did everything that they and the medical teams could possibly have done to keep him alive. They really could not have done much (if anything) more.
I wish them luck in the future, and hopefully at least the chance of another child sometime in the future.
Perhaps they can console themselves with, the thought, that they did everything that they and the medical teams could possibly have done to keep him alive. They really could not have done much (if anything) more.
I wish them luck in the future, and hopefully at least the chance of another child sometime in the future.
Derek Smith said:
Wiccan of Darkness said:
Posted much information on this sad subject.
I'd like to add my thanks for your comments and detailed information about the disease and especially the processes.My wife (who calls PH 'that geek site') has read this entire thread and said that Wiccan had explained to her the situation in a manner that the media never could have.
I read some of the linked thread from Mumsnet and I couldn't see where Wiccan's posts were "comprehensively debunked". Would be interested to read it as they seem pretty watertight to me.
Anyway, having gone through a few pages I am actually pretty surprised by how sensible most of the posts are! This one for instance is pretty representative, posted by 'SomeDyke':
The GOSH position statement is excellent and clear. Particularly that they had been in contact with Hirano since December. I think their statement makes it clear that they followed the rules (hence seeking emergency ethical review when NBT first suggested), then stopped the process once the fits and brain damage.
I actually support Connie making the statement. Transparency. Let then spend the money they raised on trying to sue GOSH if they want, let them campaign, perhaps, for a change in the procedures that they saw as causing the delay. GOSH will then at least have another chance of re-stating their position, although they have done that very well in the position statements so far. And let Judge Francis have his idea taken up that more mediation rather than an adversarial court process is the way forward.
Like it or not, this sort of thing was always going to happen at some point, given the changing social circumstances, so it is a discussion we need to have as a society, when and where and if we let emotion triumph over facts, parents rights over childrens rights, how the relationship between doctor and patient is handled, do we want to have a more US-style approach, or do we prefer what we have????
But overall, I'm proud of GOSH and their doctors, and I'm proud of our legal principles and our legal system. The emotional mass hysteria and conspiracy nonsense will continue on the internet, but then it would anyway. The system has worked (eventually) for Charlie, and he, after all, is who this was all about...................
Anyway, having gone through a few pages I am actually pretty surprised by how sensible most of the posts are! This one for instance is pretty representative, posted by 'SomeDyke':
The GOSH position statement is excellent and clear. Particularly that they had been in contact with Hirano since December. I think their statement makes it clear that they followed the rules (hence seeking emergency ethical review when NBT first suggested), then stopped the process once the fits and brain damage.
I actually support Connie making the statement. Transparency. Let then spend the money they raised on trying to sue GOSH if they want, let them campaign, perhaps, for a change in the procedures that they saw as causing the delay. GOSH will then at least have another chance of re-stating their position, although they have done that very well in the position statements so far. And let Judge Francis have his idea taken up that more mediation rather than an adversarial court process is the way forward.
Like it or not, this sort of thing was always going to happen at some point, given the changing social circumstances, so it is a discussion we need to have as a society, when and where and if we let emotion triumph over facts, parents rights over childrens rights, how the relationship between doctor and patient is handled, do we want to have a more US-style approach, or do we prefer what we have????
But overall, I'm proud of GOSH and their doctors, and I'm proud of our legal principles and our legal system. The emotional mass hysteria and conspiracy nonsense will continue on the internet, but then it would anyway. The system has worked (eventually) for Charlie, and he, after all, is who this was all about...................
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