Discussion
All very sad. My thoughts are that it's a combination of parents who feel they have the absolute right to decide what happens with their children, plus over time them being gradually whipped up by friends and others on social media into believing they must not give up at any cost.
I'm very much of the opinion that some parents do not know what is best, and I think often a couple can feed on each other and end up making decisions they would never contemplate alone.
I'm very much of the opinion that some parents do not know what is best, and I think often a couple can feed on each other and end up making decisions they would never contemplate alone.
She also said "We just want some peace with our son, no hospital, no lawyers, no courts, no media... Despite us and our legal team working tirelessly to arrange this near impossible task the judge has ordered against what we arranged and has agreed to what GOSH asked... This subsequently gives us very little time with our son."
Well just maybe you should've thought about the wasted time before you started down this route. Your son is STILL in pain as we speak, any reasonable parent would simply want the suffering to end rather than have it prolonged.
One can only hope they look back on this in the coming years and hate themselves for what they've done. I mean, between the book deals and TV appearances and dramatic serialisations, of course.
Suffice to say, I'm totally out of sympathy now.
Well just maybe you should've thought about the wasted time before you started down this route. Your son is STILL in pain as we speak, any reasonable parent would simply want the suffering to end rather than have it prolonged.
One can only hope they look back on this in the coming years and hate themselves for what they've done. I mean, between the book deals and TV appearances and dramatic serialisations, of course.
Suffice to say, I'm totally out of sympathy now.
PurpleMoonlight said:
A 2 week birthday card?
Anyone else done that?
err yes, just about every parent on facebook these days, irritatingly; all new parents seem to think they have done something novel by reproducing.Anyone else done that?
invariably for every baby milestone, see here
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B017XNP8N0/
wobert said:
The way I understand the current law, is it's there to protect the child's rights over and above those rights of the parents.
To the extent that the child has a legal guardian appointed to look after their best interests and ensure their rights are upheld.
The current situation here, appears to be driven by what the parents want, irrespective of the effect on the child or more importantly over that of their rights.
I would say on reflection, the current law is robust and doesn't need changing in this respect.....
Indeed, otherwise you would have parents taking children out of medical facilities and administering plant-based remedies or homeopathy. To the extent that the child has a legal guardian appointed to look after their best interests and ensure their rights are upheld.
The current situation here, appears to be driven by what the parents want, irrespective of the effect on the child or more importantly over that of their rights.
I would say on reflection, the current law is robust and doesn't need changing in this respect.....
This whole sorry saga will cause much harm.
A poor child with suffering prolonged.
Huge financial cost to GOSH.
Massive mistrust and misinformation perpetuated by social media.
Future reluctance/fear for clinicians to undertake paediatric palliative care.
I think the only winners will be a few select lawyers.
A poor child with suffering prolonged.
Huge financial cost to GOSH.
Massive mistrust and misinformation perpetuated by social media.
Future reluctance/fear for clinicians to undertake paediatric palliative care.
I think the only winners will be a few select lawyers.
Well I'm going to against the majority here. I feel desperately sorry for the parents and what their emotions must have been through and are still going through. I have been in a similar position with my 11 month old 8 years ago.
He survived brain damage from meningitis with major complications. He's had one my kidneys and is deaf. The difference he had a chance that I could give him myself but had someone told me they could help him no matter how slim the chance I don't know how I could have dealt with turning off his life support. You're in a bubble that no one else can possibly understand unless they've been there. I have.
There is so much information overload and pressure emotionally it is impossible to explain. I find it desperatley sad that those who haven't been there think they can judge them and whilst I do not agree with the crazy support they have gathered, I also do not agree with many on here who feel they can judge them without the slightest idea of how they are really feeling.
They are parents about to loose their child. Imagine how you would deal with that if you were feeling rational, they are not thinking that way as it is real for them. They are paniced, desperate, incredibly tired and have made some huge errors of judgement. Frankly knowing how they feel I am not surprised. I urge you all to think hard before you judge them. Poor Charlie and poor family.
Nick
He survived brain damage from meningitis with major complications. He's had one my kidneys and is deaf. The difference he had a chance that I could give him myself but had someone told me they could help him no matter how slim the chance I don't know how I could have dealt with turning off his life support. You're in a bubble that no one else can possibly understand unless they've been there. I have.
There is so much information overload and pressure emotionally it is impossible to explain. I find it desperatley sad that those who haven't been there think they can judge them and whilst I do not agree with the crazy support they have gathered, I also do not agree with many on here who feel they can judge them without the slightest idea of how they are really feeling.
They are parents about to loose their child. Imagine how you would deal with that if you were feeling rational, they are not thinking that way as it is real for them. They are paniced, desperate, incredibly tired and have made some huge errors of judgement. Frankly knowing how they feel I am not surprised. I urge you all to think hard before you judge them. Poor Charlie and poor family.
Nick
sjabrown said:
I think the only winners will be a few select lawyers.
Yep - the f
king lawyer wkers are the only A terrible sorry tale - I have no idea what I would do if I was in the parent's situation, so I will not comment one way or the other.
rovermorris999 said:
This whole affair is a sad illustration of the way the world and the West in particular is going. Thanks to social media dim but often well-meaning people seem to have the power to whip up almost unstoppable momentum on an issue despite the real facts of the matter.
The average person isn't wonderfully bright and 50% are dimmer than that. Unfortunately they tend to shout the loudest and ignore anything that refutes their belief.
Welcome to the Age of Stupid. Coming to a ballot box near you.
I took an interest in this case a while back. I came to the subject with a bit of anger, as in, how dare the courts stop this baby getting what he needs. I now know the facts. No one can blame the parents. A gut wrenching situation. Very sad, no winners. I hope the family find peace, somehow.The average person isn't wonderfully bright and 50% are dimmer than that. Unfortunately they tend to shout the loudest and ignore anything that refutes their belief.
Welcome to the Age of Stupid. Coming to a ballot box near you.
ND_007 said:
They are parents about to loose their child. Imagine how you would deal with that if you were feeling rational, they are not thinking that way as it is real for them. They are paniced, desperate, incredibly tired and have made some huge errors of judgement. Frankly knowing how they feel I am not surprised. I urge you all to think hard before you judge them. Poor Charlie and poor family.
Nick
You maybe missed my posts earlier in the thread where I explained that less than 3 years ago I was in GOSH with a terminally ill baby suffering from spinal muscular atrophy, a similarly rare generic condition to that of Charlie Gard.Nick
To behave the way they have is beyond my comprehension and is completely at odds with how we dealt with the situation. Every parent in their situation will be tired, panicked and desperate - fortunately very few make the errors of judgment they have.
Biker 1 said:
sjabrown said:
I think the only winners will be a few select lawyers.
Yep - the fking lawyer wkers are the only A terrible sorry tale - I have no idea what I would do if I was in the parent's situation, so I will not comment one way or the other.
Firstly, as has been pointed out, Gard's counsel worked pro bono. Scum indeed...
The laws that encompass us requires defining and challenging so we know what we are and are not permitted to do. Without people who dedicate their lives to law this key part of the legal system wouldn't exist.
Previous said:
Its sad that they couldn't take him home (seemingly valid reasons, but anyone who remembers taking your first child home will understand).
RE the parents. I simply feel very sorry for them and hope I'm never in that position.
Facebook warriors. Don't get that at all.
Please do not flame me if I a wrong but I thought that he was born assumingly healthy and would have been taken home then, it was later discovered that he was ill and then admitted to gosh? .my heart goes out to all those involved RE the parents. I simply feel very sorry for them and hope I'm never in that position.
Facebook warriors. Don't get that at all.
At this point, I'd like to think my time would be better spent by his side rather than spending it in a court room arguing with people.
The poor bugger and his family just needs some peace now, prolonging the inevitable is just making a terrible situation even worse.
But its not me in that situation so I'm probably wrong, but I think when there's no hope left I'd want that person at rest as soon as possible. My thoughts and feelings are secondary.
The poor bugger and his family just needs some peace now, prolonging the inevitable is just making a terrible situation even worse.
But its not me in that situation so I'm probably wrong, but I think when there's no hope left I'd want that person at rest as soon as possible. My thoughts and feelings are secondary.
La Liga said:
Biker 1 said:
sjabrown said:
I think the only winners will be a few select lawyers.
Yep - the fking lawyer wkers are the only A terrible sorry tale - I have no idea what I would do if I was in the parent's situation, so I will not comment one way or the other.
Firstly, as has been pointed out, Gard's counsel worked pro bono. Scum indeed...
The laws that encompass us requires defining and challenging so we know what we are and are not permitted to do. Without people who dedicate their lives to law this key part of the legal system wouldn't exist.
They have dragged the case back and forth to the court presenting evidence which had little medical substance and ignoring evidence which did. In this they have caused pain to many including the child.
They will escape sanction by the law society because they will argue they where representing the wishes of the parents. Note what I have just said they where representing the parents not the child.
Since they are representing the parents they will argue they can present the parents demands to the court even if they have no validity.
They can therefore absolve themselves of any responsibility for the pain and distress they have caused to others.
I would have no problem with their attitude if this was not a case where others including a young child are involved. In most cases so long as you have advised your client they have minimal chance of success but they still wish to continue a lawyer is perfectly entitled to proceed with a case. In this case the lawyers should have researched the medical details and advised the parents the case did not stand a chance. If the parents still wanted to proceed they should have resigned because of the potential pain to the child while the case continued. They choose not to take the moral high ground because they will gain kudos from the case. That defines scum to me.
Two more points. Firstly there was no point of law being argued in this case. Secondly the lawyers for GOSH hospital will not have worked pro bono. So the case will have cost the NHS (you and me) a lot of money which would been better spent on patients.
ND_007 said:
Well I'm going to against the majority here. I feel desperately sorry for the parents and what their emotions must have been through and are still going through. I have been in a similar position with my 11 month old 8 years ago.
He survived brain damage from meningitis with major complications. He's had one my kidneys and is deaf. The difference he had a chance that I could give him myself but had someone told me they could help him no matter how slim the chance I don't know how I could have dealt with turning off his life support. You're in a bubble that no one else can possibly understand unless they've been there. I have.
There is so much information overload and pressure emotionally it is impossible to explain. I find it desperatley sad that those who haven't been there think they can judge them and whilst I do not agree with the crazy support they have gathered, I also do not agree with many on here who feel they can judge them without the slightest idea of how they are really feeling.
They are parents about to loose their child. Imagine how you would deal with that if you were feeling rational, they are not thinking that way as it is real for them. They are paniced, desperate, incredibly tired and have made some huge errors of judgement. Frankly knowing how they feel I am not surprised. I urge you all to think hard before you judge them. Poor Charlie and poor family.
Nick
The feelings of the parents do not take priority over the suffering of the child for whom things can only get worse.He survived brain damage from meningitis with major complications. He's had one my kidneys and is deaf. The difference he had a chance that I could give him myself but had someone told me they could help him no matter how slim the chance I don't know how I could have dealt with turning off his life support. You're in a bubble that no one else can possibly understand unless they've been there. I have.
There is so much information overload and pressure emotionally it is impossible to explain. I find it desperatley sad that those who haven't been there think they can judge them and whilst I do not agree with the crazy support they have gathered, I also do not agree with many on here who feel they can judge them without the slightest idea of how they are really feeling.
They are parents about to loose their child. Imagine how you would deal with that if you were feeling rational, they are not thinking that way as it is real for them. They are paniced, desperate, incredibly tired and have made some huge errors of judgement. Frankly knowing how they feel I am not surprised. I urge you all to think hard before you judge them. Poor Charlie and poor family.
Nick
Edited by amusingduck on Friday 28th July 07:41
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