State pension goalposts moved again

[PurpleMoonlight]

Welshbeef said:

Well we have the welfare state so they would get benefits and not starve.

Bravo.

The real reason they don't want to pick fruit and veg and the Romanians do.

[crankedup]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Welshbeef said:

Well we have the welfare state so they would get benefits and not starve.

Bravo.

The real reason they don't want to pick fruit and veg and the Romanians do.

The Romainians are not as keen to come over for fruit picking now. Since the £ has devalued it has the effect of reducing thier pay to the point that it is no longer a no brainer, in a financial sense, and they are finding new pastures for work, so to speak.
It all comes down to money whatever Country of origin you happen to be, Romainians, U,K or Polish etc etc.

[speedy_thrills]

A larger problem than unemployment in Britain is people in low productivity employment. The British government has had a very strong preference for a low unemployment rate but the type of employment often "created" is that which would be automated in many competing economies. With the changes that are coming and inevitable re-balancing of trade the UK there will need to upskill much of its workforce to avoid a downward adjustment in standard of living.

[Moonhawk]

Welshbeef said:

So someone starting out in life trying to get experience in a field (mind he pun) that hey intend to work in and the suggestion is zero skill or extremely low skill fruit picking.
Right.

Just because they start in a low or zero skilled jobs - doesn't mean they will be there forever. Sometimes a low or zero skilled job can be a means to an end. It gets something to put on a CV and shows you can reliably get your arse out of bed and do a full day's work.

[gooner1]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Welshbeef said:

Well we have the welfare state so they would get benefits and not starve.

Bravo.

The real reason they don't want to pick fruit and veg and the Romanians do.

Or it could be that it wouldn't make economical sense , if they had to travel and lodge away.

[PurpleMoonlight]

gooner1 said:

Or it could be that it wouldn't make economical sense , if they had to travel and lodge away.

Well not compared to free money no.

[gooner1]

PurpleMoonlight said:

gooner1 said:

Or it could be that it wouldn't make economical sense , if they had to travel and lodge away.

Well not compared to free money no.

So, if you found yourself in this predicament, you'd chose to do what?

[PurpleMoonlight]

gooner1 said:

So, if you found yourself in this predicament, you'd chose to do what?

Work out of self respect.

I left school at 16 and have never been unemployed. When I started my business 25 years ago I also worked as a postman to make ends meet. That work was over before the business day started.

[CoolHands]

fking s

does anyone know where I can see exactly when I will be able to retire under this new bullst? I was going to be 67, but I think it will now be some kind of scale between 67 - 68 depending on when you were born? e.g. 67 and 4 months or whatever.

but I can't find the tables anywhere.

[FiF]

CoolHands said:

fking s

does anyone know where I can see exactly when I will be able to retire under this new bullst? I was going to be 67, but I think it will now be some kind of scale between 67 - 68 depending on when you were born? e.g. 67 and 4 months or whatever.

but I can't find the tables anywhere.

I think it's only in proposal stage at the moment.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/proposed-new-ti...

Just off at a tangent, the latest CMI data (mortality index) is showing a slow down in the increase in life expectancy. Bloomberg wrote recently that using the new data already starts to reduce UK pension fund deficits. In America it's gone further and life expectancy has reduced.

[B'stard Child]

CoolHands said:

fking s

does anyone know where I can see exactly when I will be able to retire under this new bullst? I was going to be 67, but I think it will now be some kind of scale between 67 - 68 depending on when you were born? e.g. 67 and 4 months or whatever.

but I can't find the tables anywhere.

GOV.UK said:

No one born on or before 5 April 1970 will see a change to their current proposed State Pension age.

[CoolHands]

Yeah but I think the 'proposals' are like when TFL do a consultation about congestion charging etc. i.e. you're getting it anyway.

bds, it makes me angry especially when they are now tying the age at which you can claim any other pension to the state pension age minus 10 years. i.e. 58. + life time allowance which is either going to be reduced, or kept static so in effect reducing.

[CoolHands]

B'stard Child said:

GOV.UK said:

No one born on or before 5 April 1970 will see a change to their current proposed State Pension age.

I'm not sure why you've written that? For people born after that date, who would have had retirement age of 67, it is going to increase.

[richie99]

FiF said:

I think it's only in proposal stage at the moment.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/proposed-new-ti...

Just off at a tangent, the latest CMI data (mortality index) is showing a slow down in the increase in life expectancy. Bloomberg wrote recently that using the new data already starts to reduce UK pension fund deficits. In America it's gone further and life expectancy has reduced.

Excellent. Those pie gobblers making life better for the rest of us.

[James_B]

CoolHands said:

I'm not sure why you've written that? For people born after that date, who would have had retirement age of 67, it is going to increase.

Why are people conflating state pension age with retirement age? It’s not the same thing.

Are people genuinely not making provision for themselves?

[Kermit power]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I think it's also an outdated view to an extent, at least in respect to skills.

OK, there may be older people in the workplace now who've resisted learning IT skills, but I'm 47, and apart from part time jobs at school and uni, I've never experienced work without IT as an intrinsic part of my day to day work.

I don't see any reason why my generation is suddenly going to become IT illiterate as we hit our Sixties!

[CoolHands]

James_B said:

Why are people conflating state pension age with retirement age? It’s not the same thing.

Are people genuinely not making provision for themselves?

I'm not sure if you're being pedantic? So I should have written:

... For people born after that date, who would have had state pension age of 67, it is going to increase.

?

For most people it is the same thing since one cannot retire without the state pension unless one is minted, n'est-ce pas?

[Welshbeef]

James_B said:

CoolHands said:

I'm not sure why you've written that? For people born after that date, who would have had retirement age of 67, it is going to increase.

Why are people conflating state pension age with retirement age? It’s not the same thing.

Are people genuinely not making provision for themselves?

They are - but an odd decision by the govt speicifically links ALL private pensions to within 10 years of state pension age? It makes no sense - this is paid for privately and if adequate you can elect to retire much earlier for whatever reason that person chooses. Now though the govt are forcing people to elect to save for the future elsewhere.

This last bit is dangerous - some who would have invested in pensions might now simply not do so at all.

Heck I can easily see a Govt come into power and say yes you know all those TESSAs and ISAs well the tax free wrapper is being removed we need to pay for the NHS for other public sector services and if your wealthy enough to have ISAs over £x value then we’re going to tax it.

[James_B]

CoolHands said:

I'm not sure if you're being pedantic? So I should have written:

... For people born after that date, who would have had state pension age of 67, it is going to increase.

?

For most people it is the same thing since one cannot retire without the state pension unless one is minted, n'est-ce pas?

Not minted. Sensible. It doesn’t take much if you start saving early, and then don’t spend all of your pay rises through your life, instead putting a bit more away.

It’s not being pedantic to wonder at the mindset that doesn’t do this. I don’t know anyone, rich or poor who’s not made some sort of provision.

[B'stard Child]

CoolHands said:

B'stard Child said:

GOV.UK said:

No one born on or before 5 April 1970 will see a change to their current proposed State Pension age.

I'm not sure why you've written that? For people born after that date, who would have had retirement age of 67, it is going to increase.

Sorry copied in haste and didn't get it all

GOV.UK said:

On or before 5 April 1970 No change

Between 6 April 1970 and 5 April 1978 Your State Pension age is currently 67. It would increase to between 67 years and 1 month, and 68 years, depending on your date of birth

After 6 April 1978 No change. Your State Pension age remains 68

So if you are in the middle

Rough calcs give me this

Rule	From	To	Retirment Age
Before	05/04/1970		67 Years
Between	06/04/1970	27/12/1970	67 Years & 1 Month
Between	28/12/1970	19/09/1971	67 Years & 2 Months
Between	20/09/1971	10/06/1972	67 Years & 3 Months
Between	11/06/1972	03/03/1973	67 Years & 4 Months
Between	04/03/1973	24/11/1973	67 Years & 5 Months
Between	25/11/1973	17/08/1974	67 Years & 6 Months
Between	18/08/1974	10/05/1975	67 Years & 7 Months
Between	11/05/1975	30/01/1976	67 Years & 8 Months
Between	31/01/1976	22/10/1976	67 Years & 9 Months
Between	23/10/1976	15/07/1977	67 Years & 10 Months
Between	16/07/1977	06/04/1978	67 Years & 11 Months
After	06/04/1978		68 Years