What do you understand by the concept of Democracy?
Discussion
Pan Pan Pan said:
Good heavens what are you shouting about? the OP`s original post was based on the Brexit decision, so why are you screaming about `Brexit threads' now? or is it just that `your' highly selective view of what democracy means has been high lighted?
I'm sorry. I'm afraid I just don't have the time this morning to explain to you the basics of using a real world example as a jumping off point for a hypothetical discussion. Everyone else seems to have grasped it so perhaps someone else will take pity on you and explain.For now, I suggest we let the thread get back on track as this is just tedious nonsense for everyone else. Off you trot!
Disastrous said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Good heavens what are you shouting about? the OP`s original post was based on the Brexit decision, so why are you screaming about `Brexit threads' now? or is it just that `your' highly selective view of what democracy means has been high lighted?
I'm sorry. I'm afraid I just don't have the time this morning to explain to you the basics of using a real world example as a jumping off point for a hypothetical discussion. Everyone else seems to have grasped it so perhaps someone else will take pity on you and explain.For now, I suggest we let the thread get back on track as this is just tedious nonsense for everyone else. Off you trot!
Could it be that your highly selective view of what `you' think democracy should be, cannot explain why it was `democratic; for the UK government to take the UK into the EU without asking the people, but it was not a democratic decision to be acted upon, when the people of the UK voted to leave the EU in 2016?
As I said I would be interested in how you believe the decision to take the UK into the EU was democratic, but the decision to leave in 2016 somehow was not. By doing this we can test the `democratic' veracity of each decision, and thereby gain some understanding of what the term democracy means. But perhaps since you told me to `trot off' you don't really want to gain any further understanding of what democracy means. (beyond your own highly selective version that is) .
Randy Winkman said:
Moonhawk said:
Randy Winkman said:
It's odd that freedom of movement is the one freedom lots of right wingers don't like much.
I don't think its the "freedom of movement part" most have an issue with - it's the "within legal boundaries" part.Disastrous said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
But perhaps since you told me to `trot off' you don't really want to gain any further understanding of what democracy means. (beyond your own highly selective version that is) .
Yawn.I'm very interested in the thread - just not your 'contributions' to it.
Well that means you are just a non democratic f*ckwit who does not have the answer to a salient question aimed at gaining further insight into the meaning of the term democracy.
Kermit power said:
Dindoit said:
By definition a democracy is a system where we elect people to govern us and make decisions for us. There are a million and one things we don't get to vote on and rightly so. The country simply couldn't function if every single piece of legislation or policy decision was put to a public vote.
A referendum vote is the antithesis of democracy. Instead of the elected government proposing something followed by a vote in parliament they passed the buck and asked the public what they should do.
May I suggest you go back and take another look at your dictionary?A referendum vote is the antithesis of democracy. Instead of the elected government proposing something followed by a vote in parliament they passed the buck and asked the public what they should do.
Democracy is derived from Greek d?mokratia, meaning d?mos ‘the people’ + -kratia ‘power, rule’.
As such, a referendum vote is not the antithesis of democracy at all; it is, in fact, the purest form of democracy.
It just so happens that we have chosen in the West to create parliamentary democracies where we choose to grant proxy over our democratic right to vote on each and every issue to the political parties for reasons of efficiency.
We have a certain form of democracy.
The ancient Athenians considered a duty of every male citizen to be present and vote on each issue.
This of course often lead to some very stupid decisions as well.
One need not read the entirety of Thucydides or Xenophon to see examples. A simple google search will suffice.
No system of democracy has proven to be perfect or ideal.
I personally believe that the decision to leave the EU, in it's current form, was exactly the occasion for just such a referendum.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Disastrous said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
But perhaps since you told me to `trot off' you don't really want to gain any further understanding of what democracy means. (beyond your own highly selective version that is) .
Yawn.I'm very interested in the thread - just not your 'contributions' to it.
Well that means you are just a non democratic f*ckwit who does not have the answer to a salient question aimed at gaining further insight into the meaning of the term democracy.
Disastrous said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Disastrous said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
But perhaps since you told me to `trot off' you don't really want to gain any further understanding of what democracy means. (beyond your own highly selective version that is) .
Yawn.I'm very interested in the thread - just not your 'contributions' to it.
Well that means you are just a non democratic f*ckwit who does not have the answer to a salient question aimed at gaining further insight into the meaning of the term democracy.
A Camel is a Horse drawn by committee!
Democracy is flawed but the best option available.
Its flaws can be minimised through the provision of absolute facts upon which people can then draw accurate opinions but in politics, this is rarely possible.
The EU vote was (IMO) deeply flawed because people were asked to vote for something that the vast majority of people knew nothing about or to a level so shallow as to render it impossible to form a coherent view. As such, opinion was shaped by the popular press that promoted a stance that best suited its corporate owners and, as was most abundantly the case with Brexit, the political ambitions of some MPs.
I was told of a report recently published that showed in the UK, in the three months following the EU vote, there were triple the number of Google searches made for "what the EU does" (and similar enquiring questions) compared to the three months before.
On the whole:
Remainers voted to stay...but didn't really know the full details of why (and still don't)
Leavers voted to leave...but didn't really know the ramifications involved (and still don't)
The analogy I use is that we have all voted to go on holiday but we don't know where we are going. It may well be that we end up on a luxury all inclusive, 5 star Bahamas hotel. Or we me find ourselves shacked up in a damp Grimsby B&B (no offence to the fine people of the fine town of Grimsby)
If the former, then great. If the latter, then we might want to reconsider.
And this is where democracy is flawed because (at the moment) should the Grimsby option be the one we end up with, there is no capacity to force a change. Democracy 'should' provide the means for the UK to be given one final go/no-go vote once we have a full understanding of the impacts/benefits of Brexit but the paradox is that by stating this option now weakens the power of negotiation with the EU over the terms of our exit.
Democracy is flawed but the best option available.
Its flaws can be minimised through the provision of absolute facts upon which people can then draw accurate opinions but in politics, this is rarely possible.
The EU vote was (IMO) deeply flawed because people were asked to vote for something that the vast majority of people knew nothing about or to a level so shallow as to render it impossible to form a coherent view. As such, opinion was shaped by the popular press that promoted a stance that best suited its corporate owners and, as was most abundantly the case with Brexit, the political ambitions of some MPs.
I was told of a report recently published that showed in the UK, in the three months following the EU vote, there were triple the number of Google searches made for "what the EU does" (and similar enquiring questions) compared to the three months before.
On the whole:
Remainers voted to stay...but didn't really know the full details of why (and still don't)
Leavers voted to leave...but didn't really know the ramifications involved (and still don't)
The analogy I use is that we have all voted to go on holiday but we don't know where we are going. It may well be that we end up on a luxury all inclusive, 5 star Bahamas hotel. Or we me find ourselves shacked up in a damp Grimsby B&B (no offence to the fine people of the fine town of Grimsby)
If the former, then great. If the latter, then we might want to reconsider.
And this is where democracy is flawed because (at the moment) should the Grimsby option be the one we end up with, there is no capacity to force a change. Democracy 'should' provide the means for the UK to be given one final go/no-go vote once we have a full understanding of the impacts/benefits of Brexit but the paradox is that by stating this option now weakens the power of negotiation with the EU over the terms of our exit.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Disastrous said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Disastrous said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
But perhaps since you told me to `trot off' you don't really want to gain any further understanding of what democracy means. (beyond your own highly selective version that is) .
Yawn.I'm very interested in the thread - just not your 'contributions' to it.
Well that means you are just a non democratic f*ckwit who does not have the answer to a salient question aimed at gaining further insight into the meaning of the term democracy.
Harry H said:
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter". commonly attributed to Winston Churchill but with no authority
EFAhttps://www.winstonchurchill.org/publications/fine...
Disastrous said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Disastrous said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Disastrous said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
But perhaps since you told me to `trot off' you don't really want to gain any further understanding of what democracy means. (beyond your own highly selective version that is) .
Yawn.I'm very interested in the thread - just not your 'contributions' to it.
Well that means you are just a non democratic f*ckwit who does not have the answer to a salient question aimed at gaining further insight into the meaning of the term democracy.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Disastrous said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Disastrous said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Disastrous said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
But perhaps since you told me to `trot off' you don't really want to gain any further understanding of what democracy means. (beyond your own highly selective version that is) .
Yawn.I'm very interested in the thread - just not your 'contributions' to it.
Well that means you are just a non democratic f*ckwit who does not have the answer to a salient question aimed at gaining further insight into the meaning of the term democracy.
Utterly pathetic. Also, I think you'll find you kicked off the derogatory terms by calling me a f
kwit, but I do appreciate you would require at least a quantum of self-awareness to recognise that so you are excused.Well done though - you've utterly ruined this thread (though I accept a degree of responsibility by rising to it).
Disastrous said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Disastrous said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Disastrous said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Disastrous said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
But perhaps since you told me to `trot off' you don't really want to gain any further understanding of what democracy means. (beyond your own highly selective version that is) .
Yawn.I'm very interested in the thread - just not your 'contributions' to it.
Well that means you are just a non democratic f*ckwit who does not have the answer to a salient question aimed at gaining further insight into the meaning of the term democracy.
Utterly pathetic. Also, I think you'll find you kicked off the derogatory terms by calling me a f
kwit, but I do appreciate you would require at least a quantum of self-awareness to recognise that so you are excused.Well done though - you've utterly ruined this thread (though I accept a degree of responsibility by rising to it).
Moonhawk said:
Harry H said:
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter". commonly attributed to Winston Churchill but with no authority
EFAhttps://www.winstonchurchill.org/publications/fine...
CaptainSlow said:
TTwiggy said:
Moonhawk said:
Surely those people complaining about not getting the result they wanted are the ones who are behaving contrary to democracy - afterall they were quite happy to participate under the rules laid out when they thought the result was going to go the way they wanted.
Quick point here - nobody ever asked me if I was happy with the rules.Pan Pan Pan said:
Wrong yet again. It was quite definitely you who kicked off the derogatory terms by calling someone who does not agree with your selective view or version of democracy `thick' Still what can one expect from someone as `thick' as you? Bit of advice, next time , don't `rise' to it. it will help your blood pressure , no end.
Sorry - I thought I was just being factual when I called you thick as you seemed to be struggling to understand the words I had written. I thought I had answered your questions in previous posts which you seemed to not have read/understood. I didn't mean it as an insult I'm bored now - be my guest and indulge your requirement for the last word.
Harry H said:
Thorodin said:
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Benjamin Franklin.
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter". Winston ChurchillBenjamin Franklin.
TTwiggy said:
CaptainSlow said:
TTwiggy said:
Moonhawk said:
Surely those people complaining about not getting the result they wanted are the ones who are behaving contrary to democracy - afterall they were quite happy to participate under the rules laid out when they thought the result was going to go the way they wanted.
Quick point here - nobody ever asked me if I was happy with the rules.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff