New diesel and petrol cars banned from UK roads by 2030
Discussion
Evanivitch said:
The average house uses 10kWh electricity a day, perhaps 20kWh with a heatpump system.
The idea that overnight you'd empty, or they'd even be demand for, 40-100kWh from every person's car is hilarious!
Once we ban the use of gas in houses I'd expect electricity consumption to rise significantly.The idea that overnight you'd empty, or they'd even be demand for, 40-100kWh from every person's car is hilarious!
Agammemnon said:
Evanivitch said:
The average house uses 10kWh electricity a day, perhaps 20kWh with a heatpump system.
The idea that overnight you'd empty, or they'd even be demand for, 40-100kWh from every person's car is hilarious!
Once we ban the use of gas in houses I'd expect electricity consumption to rise significantly.The idea that overnight you'd empty, or they'd even be demand for, 40-100kWh from every person's car is hilarious!
My local council are increasingly using 2 stroke and/or 4 stroke tools.
Last month I saw two or three council chaps with an ICE wheelbarrow ffs.
How about just one manual one each?
Leaf blowers, petrol 2 stroke, blowing leaves around. Just leave them, or use a brush.
The council seem to love using the worst of the worst ICE devices to do jobs that either aren’t essential or have manual alternatives, causing sound pollution, and enabling their employees to get fat which is another cost on society.
Councils are the epitome of idiocy.
Last month I saw two or three council chaps with an ICE wheelbarrow ffs.
How about just one manual one each?
Leaf blowers, petrol 2 stroke, blowing leaves around. Just leave them, or use a brush.
The council seem to love using the worst of the worst ICE devices to do jobs that either aren’t essential or have manual alternatives, causing sound pollution, and enabling their employees to get fat which is another cost on society.
Councils are the epitome of idiocy.
Coolbananas said:
Agammemnon said:
I haven't read every page of this- has anyone asked what happens regarding motorbikes?
The actual wording of the ban isn't "cars" it is "vehicles". Therefore fossil-fuelled motorcycles are included in the ban. https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/petrol-ban-mot...
R Mutt said:
225 TfL charging points
Hundreds of new ones a day required to provide sufficient coverage to meet the targets. Neither can most people charge at home in flats either.
Doesn't really add up.
You seem to be assuming that people will be permitted to own the same number of cars as now. Anyone living in a flat and not able to charge a car should probably start coming to terms with the fact that they just won't be allowed to own an electric car. The lack of charging points does not become a problem in those circumstances. Hundreds of new ones a day required to provide sufficient coverage to meet the targets. Neither can most people charge at home in flats either.
Doesn't really add up.
Monkeylegend said:
And oil, coal and wood for heating.
Falkirk council installed electric "eco" boilers in 900 homes. Residents now paying up to £5k a year for electricity.https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
richie99 said:
You seem to be assuming that people will be permitted to own the same number of cars as now. Anyone living in a flat and not able to charge a car should probably start coming to terms with the fact that they just won't be allowed to own an electric car. The lack of charging points does not become a problem in those circumstances.
Makes sense. In Japanese cities, you need to show that you have a parking space (a document from local police station ISTR) before you can buy a car. Friend in Tokyo swears by their electric car sharing/ renting system (bit like Zip car, run by Toyota)
Friend who is a property developer here in OZ is looking at providing electric cars as part of a serviced apartment he is building - but this is relatively easy in OZ as it is the car that is insured, not the driver.
Very annoyingly my previously posted link (and quoted posts) from CAR Magazines article were deleted. The article was Gavin Greens predictions for motoring in the 2020's. I've copied and pasted the article words below, as I thought GG's thoughts are really on the ball (bar point 9)
01 Electric cars will grow in popularity, of course. Our legislators demand it. But they will not sell as well as car makers and law makers hope, as they’re less convenient and cost more. So motorists will keep their old high-polluting petrol and diesel cars for longer.
02 The vast majority of new cars sold at the end of the 2020s will still have petrol engines, although many will be hybrids.
03 Forcing people to pay more for ‘clean’ EVs and restricting the urban movements of combustion-engine cars will cause unrest; look at the gilets jaunes.
04 Hydrogen fuel cells will be the electric future, more than heavy plug-in batteries.
05 There will be many environmental and human rights scares about building and sourcing materials for electric car batteries. Expect a Panorama on child labour extracting cobalt in the Congo.
06 Plug-in hybrids will become much more popular, especially for big vehicles. They’re perfect for car makers to meet tough official CO2 targets and for those who wish to drive an ‘electric’ car but who don’t want to relinquish their 2.5-tonne SUVs. Never mind that with their big manufacturing carbon footprints, massive weight and frequent use of petrol power, they’re mostly ecological disasters.
07 Nissan and Toyota will close their UK factories, following Honda. Brexit dooms them. But they probably would have gone anyway.
08 After almost 30 years of growth, kickstarted by the arrival of the Japanese, the UK car industry will decline. However, the UK will become a global leader in low-carbon technologies.
09 Germany’s car industry will decline, too. As cars become increasingly electrical and software-controlled, so Germany’s pre-eminence in mechanical engineering becomes less important.
10 US, Chinese, Japanese and Korean suppliers will benefit from the electric car revolution, at the expense of Europe. Nearly all EV batteries and many components are sourced from Asia, mostly China. Currently, 40 per cent of the added value of an EV goes straight to Asia.
11 No Chinese car brand will succeed in the West.
12 Apple, Google, Amazon and other Silicon Valley stars will – like Dyson – not make cars. The profit margins and risks are too great. Instead, they’ll partner with car makers to license and develop software.
13 Very few, if any, new EV start-ups will succeed. In 10 years, the industry will still be dominated by the big car makers that rule today – although expect more mergers and partnerships. Tesla is an exception. Despite its many Wall Street sceptics, it will survive and prosper and be America’s most important and successful car maker of the new decade.
14 Car sales in the West will decline, due to the increased popularity of Uber, vehicle sharing and far fewer people buying cars in cities.
15 Formula 1 will decline in popularity. So will all mainstream motor sport, including rallying. Fewer car makers will support motor sport, deeming it increasingly irrelevant.
16 Electric motor racing will never become popular. Trying to blend contrived eco-friendliness and motor sport is as illogical as rugby without toughness. When did you last watch touch rugby? Or a Formula E race?
17 Older cars will become more popular, especially for keen drivers and car enthusiasts, as modern cars become electronic consumer goods.
18 Fully autonomous cars won’t arrive this decade, despite brave noises from some engineers. They may never happen. However, new semi-autonomous technologies will greatly improve road safety.
19 Supercars will continue to be built, and bought by wealthy collectors, rich peacocks and affluent car enthusiasts. The biggest growth will be powerful plug-in hybrids. Expect way more pure electric supercars, too. Smooth and powerful electric motors, and precise electronically controlled torque vectoring to all four wheels, should deliver an extraordinary driving experience. These cars will become increasingly unused on the road. Plus, the absurd horsepower/top speed arms race of today will stop (hallelujah!).
20 Legislators will finally realise that it’s not just tailpipe emissions that matter environmentally. So two-tonne-plus behemoths, even when electric powered, will be targeted.
01 Electric cars will grow in popularity, of course. Our legislators demand it. But they will not sell as well as car makers and law makers hope, as they’re less convenient and cost more. So motorists will keep their old high-polluting petrol and diesel cars for longer.
02 The vast majority of new cars sold at the end of the 2020s will still have petrol engines, although many will be hybrids.
03 Forcing people to pay more for ‘clean’ EVs and restricting the urban movements of combustion-engine cars will cause unrest; look at the gilets jaunes.
04 Hydrogen fuel cells will be the electric future, more than heavy plug-in batteries.
05 There will be many environmental and human rights scares about building and sourcing materials for electric car batteries. Expect a Panorama on child labour extracting cobalt in the Congo.
06 Plug-in hybrids will become much more popular, especially for big vehicles. They’re perfect for car makers to meet tough official CO2 targets and for those who wish to drive an ‘electric’ car but who don’t want to relinquish their 2.5-tonne SUVs. Never mind that with their big manufacturing carbon footprints, massive weight and frequent use of petrol power, they’re mostly ecological disasters.
07 Nissan and Toyota will close their UK factories, following Honda. Brexit dooms them. But they probably would have gone anyway.
08 After almost 30 years of growth, kickstarted by the arrival of the Japanese, the UK car industry will decline. However, the UK will become a global leader in low-carbon technologies.
09 Germany’s car industry will decline, too. As cars become increasingly electrical and software-controlled, so Germany’s pre-eminence in mechanical engineering becomes less important.
10 US, Chinese, Japanese and Korean suppliers will benefit from the electric car revolution, at the expense of Europe. Nearly all EV batteries and many components are sourced from Asia, mostly China. Currently, 40 per cent of the added value of an EV goes straight to Asia.
11 No Chinese car brand will succeed in the West.
12 Apple, Google, Amazon and other Silicon Valley stars will – like Dyson – not make cars. The profit margins and risks are too great. Instead, they’ll partner with car makers to license and develop software.
13 Very few, if any, new EV start-ups will succeed. In 10 years, the industry will still be dominated by the big car makers that rule today – although expect more mergers and partnerships. Tesla is an exception. Despite its many Wall Street sceptics, it will survive and prosper and be America’s most important and successful car maker of the new decade.
14 Car sales in the West will decline, due to the increased popularity of Uber, vehicle sharing and far fewer people buying cars in cities.
15 Formula 1 will decline in popularity. So will all mainstream motor sport, including rallying. Fewer car makers will support motor sport, deeming it increasingly irrelevant.
16 Electric motor racing will never become popular. Trying to blend contrived eco-friendliness and motor sport is as illogical as rugby without toughness. When did you last watch touch rugby? Or a Formula E race?
17 Older cars will become more popular, especially for keen drivers and car enthusiasts, as modern cars become electronic consumer goods.
18 Fully autonomous cars won’t arrive this decade, despite brave noises from some engineers. They may never happen. However, new semi-autonomous technologies will greatly improve road safety.
19 Supercars will continue to be built, and bought by wealthy collectors, rich peacocks and affluent car enthusiasts. The biggest growth will be powerful plug-in hybrids. Expect way more pure electric supercars, too. Smooth and powerful electric motors, and precise electronically controlled torque vectoring to all four wheels, should deliver an extraordinary driving experience. These cars will become increasingly unused on the road. Plus, the absurd horsepower/top speed arms race of today will stop (hallelujah!).
20 Legislators will finally realise that it’s not just tailpipe emissions that matter environmentally. So two-tonne-plus behemoths, even when electric powered, will be targeted.
I thought Nissan were seeing brexit as an opportunity to use Sunderland manufacturing to grab market share in the UK?
Also don't see hydrogen as the future, especially once the electric infrastructure is significant and the public are tuned in to that way of life. Battery and motor tech will accelerate, meaning better bang per KG and £.
Agree that car ownership will become less of an aspiration as the generations coming through don't view motoring as a pastime in the way mine and previous ones did. Now 17 year olds would rather spend the equivalent cash on an iPhone than a car and content subscriptions instead of unleaded.
Also don't see hydrogen as the future, especially once the electric infrastructure is significant and the public are tuned in to that way of life. Battery and motor tech will accelerate, meaning better bang per KG and £.
Agree that car ownership will become less of an aspiration as the generations coming through don't view motoring as a pastime in the way mine and previous ones did. Now 17 year olds would rather spend the equivalent cash on an iPhone than a car and content subscriptions instead of unleaded.
janesmith1950 said:
I thought Nissan were seeing brexit as an opportunity to use Sunderland manufacturing to grab market share in the UK?
Also don't see hydrogen as the future, especially once the electric infrastructure is significant and the public are tuned in to that way of life. Battery and motor tech will accelerate, meaning better bang per KG and £.
Agree that car ownership will become less of an aspiration as the generations coming through don't view motoring as a pastime in the way mine and previous ones did. Now 17 year olds would rather spend the equivalent cash on an iPhone than a car and content subscriptions instead of unleaded.
All UK car manufacturing will reduce, why would you keep manufacturing ICE cars here, there will be no market for them, Japanese manufacturers will relocate back to Japan, as Honda has done.Also don't see hydrogen as the future, especially once the electric infrastructure is significant and the public are tuned in to that way of life. Battery and motor tech will accelerate, meaning better bang per KG and £.
Agree that car ownership will become less of an aspiration as the generations coming through don't view motoring as a pastime in the way mine and previous ones did. Now 17 year olds would rather spend the equivalent cash on an iPhone than a car and content subscriptions instead of unleaded.
Car ownership will highlight the difference between rich and poor, the freedom to go where you want will be removed from the poor, even getting to work will be a struggle or impossible for some in less urbanised areas, this will lead to massive resentment and social unrest, remember the government will be increasing duty on fuel and VED on ICE vehicles to drive them off the road with mostly no alternative, we witnessed the government's misguided drive for diesel, there is no reason that this will not be another totally disaster.
PRTVR said:
janesmith1950 said:
I thought Nissan were seeing brexit as an opportunity to use Sunderland manufacturing to grab market share in the UK?
Also don't see hydrogen as the future, especially once the electric infrastructure is significant and the public are tuned in to that way of life. Battery and motor tech will accelerate, meaning better bang per KG and £.
Agree that car ownership will become less of an aspiration as the generations coming through don't view motoring as a pastime in the way mine and previous ones did. Now 17 year olds would rather spend the equivalent cash on an iPhone than a car and content subscriptions instead of unleaded.
All UK car manufacturing will reduce, why would you keep manufacturing ICE cars here, there will be no market for them, Japanese manufacturers will relocate back to Japan, as Honda has done.Also don't see hydrogen as the future, especially once the electric infrastructure is significant and the public are tuned in to that way of life. Battery and motor tech will accelerate, meaning better bang per KG and £.
Agree that car ownership will become less of an aspiration as the generations coming through don't view motoring as a pastime in the way mine and previous ones did. Now 17 year olds would rather spend the equivalent cash on an iPhone than a car and content subscriptions instead of unleaded.
Car ownership will highlight the difference between rich and poor, the freedom to go where you want will be removed from the poor, even getting to work will be a struggle or impossible for some in less urbanised areas, this will lead to massive resentment and social unrest, remember the government will be increasing duty on fuel and VED on ICE vehicles to drive them off the road with mostly no alternative, we witnessed the government's misguided drive for diesel, there is no reason that this will not be another totally disaster.
This new norm is not compatible with private car ownership, learning to drive as an enjoyable right of passage, many people i know in their early 20s don't own a car and see no point in one (working in London).
I see the future as being far less physically mobile and much more online. This will have positive and negative results. One thing I find fascinating is young people today use dating sites as a first option and don't meet people naturally, we are becomg far.less social.
Gecko1978 said:
PRTVR said:
janesmith1950 said:
I thought Nissan were seeing brexit as an opportunity to use Sunderland manufacturing to grab market share in the UK?
Also don't see hydrogen as the future, especially once the electric infrastructure is significant and the public are tuned in to that way of life. Battery and motor tech will accelerate, meaning better bang per KG and £.
Agree that car ownership will become less of an aspiration as the generations coming through don't view motoring as a pastime in the way mine and previous ones did. Now 17 year olds would rather spend the equivalent cash on an iPhone than a car and content subscriptions instead of unleaded.
All UK car manufacturing will reduce, why would you keep manufacturing ICE cars here, there will be no market for them, Japanese manufacturers will relocate back to Japan, as Honda has done.Also don't see hydrogen as the future, especially once the electric infrastructure is significant and the public are tuned in to that way of life. Battery and motor tech will accelerate, meaning better bang per KG and £.
Agree that car ownership will become less of an aspiration as the generations coming through don't view motoring as a pastime in the way mine and previous ones did. Now 17 year olds would rather spend the equivalent cash on an iPhone than a car and content subscriptions instead of unleaded.
Car ownership will highlight the difference between rich and poor, the freedom to go where you want will be removed from the poor, even getting to work will be a struggle or impossible for some in less urbanised areas, this will lead to massive resentment and social unrest, remember the government will be increasing duty on fuel and VED on ICE vehicles to drive them off the road with mostly no alternative, we witnessed the government's misguided drive for diesel, there is no reason that this will not be another totally disaster.
This new norm is not compatible with private car ownership, learning to drive as an enjoyable right of passage, many people i know in their early 20s don't own a car and see no point in one (working in London).
I see the future as being far less physically mobile and much more online. This will have positive and negative results. One thing I find fascinating is young people today use dating sites as a first option and don't meet people naturally, we are becomg far.less social.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff