New diesel and petrol cars banned from UK roads by 2030

[rxe]

irc said:

Falkirk council installed electric "eco" boilers in 900 homes. Residents now paying up to £5k a year for electricity.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...

This does show the insanity linked to all this.

One of our heating systems is electric. That’s because the other is wood, and when we redid the ground floor we put wet underfloor heating in as well. The underfloor heating is served by a small electric boiler (about 4 kW), it takes ages to come up to temperature, but once it is there, the house is toasty, and it doesn’t cost a lot to run. We also have an immersion heater to back up the wood fired hot water (Rayburn).

Total cost of electric install - about 1000 quid. Cost of operation - sod all.

The problem with all this green bks is that subsidy involves a load of companies making out like bandits flogging hi tech stuff that is not needed and doesn’t work.

[Evanivitch]

Agammemnon said:

What kind of ovens & hobs run from them?

Electric ovens don't draw much after initially warming up.

Induction hobs are 90% efficient, gas hobs about 45%.

[R Mutt]

janesmith1950 said:

Agree that car ownership will become less of an aspiration as the generations coming through don't view motoring as a pastime in the way mine and previous ones did. Now 17 year olds would rather spend the equivalent cash on an iPhone than a car and content subscriptions instead of unleaded.

Quite an alarming prospect. I'm sure it's purely anecdotal evidence that kids 'don't go out' these days. While they'll play computer games instead of kick a ball, teenagers go out to socialise. Japan would be an interesting test sample as they are ahead on EV and youngsters there have been known to starve to death while playing computers for days without a break. I would presume car ownership is very low, decreased by a great transport system.

[Agammemnon]

Evanivitch said:

Agammemnon said:

What kind of ovens & hobs run from them?

Electric ovens don't draw much after initially warming up.

Induction hobs are 90% efficient, gas hobs about 45%.

I asked about running them from heatpumps, not how efficient they are.

I repeat my assertion that electricity use will increase significantly once gas is no longer.

[PRTVR]

Comstock said:

"11 No Chinese car brand will succeed in the West."

Why do you think this is, just out of interest?

We buy nearly everything else from China, why not cars?

Personally I think our relationship with China will change production of stuff will move out of China, all the IP copyright problems can't go on, I think America should encourage production to be moved to Mexico

[rscott]

irc said:

Monkeylegend said:

And oil, coal and wood for heating.

Falkirk council installed electric "eco" boilers in 900 homes. Residents now paying up to £5k a year for electricity.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...

Residents tied into an awful tariff you mean?

[Evanivitch]

Agammemnon said:

Evanivitch said:

Agammemnon said:

What kind of ovens & hobs run from them?

Electric ovens don't draw much after initially warming up.

Induction hobs are 90% efficient, gas hobs about 45%.

I asked about running them from heatpumps, not how efficient they are.

I repeat my assertion that electricity use will increase significantly once gas is no longer.

Oh I thought you were being facetious, but apparently you're just thick.

[A500leroy]

What really needs to change a big shake up in the housing market so people can afford to live and work within 5 miles, the need for a big car diminishes, City dwellers will focus on public transport and suburban dwellers would go the electric moped/one car way.
It would also help if every town and village had a primary and secondary school within five miles to with an electric bus service to do the school run.

[RizzoTheRat]

A500leroy said:

What really needs to change a big shake up in the housing market so people can afford to live and work within 5 miles, the need for a big car diminishes, City dwellers will focus on public transport and suburban dwellers would go the electric moped/one car way.
It would also help if every town and village had a primary and secondary school within five miles to with an electric bus service to do the school run.

I think we are starting to see something like in cities at least. Loads of anecdotal comments about the youth of today just not being interested in cars as much as us 40+ types were at thier age.
Having recently changed jobs and moved to where I can cycle to work and easily get public transport to most other places I hardly use my car and can see why lots lots odd people don't.
On the other hand I'm picking up my motorbike next week...

[A500leroy]

RizzoTheRat said:

A500leroy said:

What really needs to change a big shake up in the housing market so people can afford to live and work within 5 miles, the need for a big car diminishes, City dwellers will focus on public transport and suburban dwellers would go the electric moped/one car way.
It would also help if every town and village had a primary and secondary school within five miles to with an electric bus service to do the school run.

I think we are starting to see something like in cities at least. Loads of anecdotal comments about the youth of today just not being interested in cars as much as us 40+ types were at thier age.
Having recently changed jobs and moved to where I can cycle to work and easily get public transport to most other places I hardly use my car and can see why lots lots odd people don't.
On the other hand I'm picking up my motorbike next week...

I really do think motorbikes/electric mopeds are the future of local personal transport in places with poor public transport.

[R Mutt]

A500leroy said:

What really needs to change a big shake up in the housing market so people can afford to live and work within 5 miles, the need for a big car diminishes, City dwellers will focus on public transport and suburban dwellers would go the electric moped/one car way.
It would also help if every town and village had a primary and secondary school within five miles to with an electric bus service to do the school run.

All of which has a greater impact on low earners who can't afford to live near schools or stations, which inflate rent/ property value are less likely to have a job where they can work remotely and are more likely to have manual jobs where location will vary, on top of the aforementioned prohibitive costs of EV and inability charge at home in flats.

[Evanivitch]

A500leroy said:

What really needs to change a big shake up in the housing market so people can afford to live and work within 5 miles, the need for a big car diminishes, City dwellers will focus on public transport and suburban dwellers would go the electric moped/one car way.
It would also help if every town and village had a primary and secondary school within five miles to with an electric bus service to do the school run.

Perhaps that will work in some industries, but I can't see low paying jobs encouraging people to move areas, and I can't see well paid jobs being able to pool the entire talent pool into a single area.

In my industry a 30-50 each way commute is not uncommon, and 15-20 miles is probably the median distance for professionals before you account for the contractor/weekly commute group.

[Evangelion]

I can see a huge poverty trap emerging, whereby large numbers of people can neither afford to buy an EV, nor afford to run the ICE they already have due to increased running costs.

[A500leroy]

R Mutt said:

A500leroy said:

What really needs to change a big shake up in the housing market so people can afford to live and work within 5 miles, the need for a big car diminishes, City dwellers will focus on public transport and suburban dwellers would go the electric moped/one car way.
It would also help if every town and village had a primary and secondary school within five miles to with an electric bus service to do the school run.

All of which has a greater impact on low earners who can't afford to live near schools or stations, which inflate rent/ property value are less likely to have a job where they can work remotely and are more likely to have manual jobs where location will vary, on top of the aforementioned prohibitive costs of EV and inability charge at home in flats.

Read the first line again, What really needs to change a big shake up in the housing market so people can afford to live and work within 5 miles. ( in other words we need cheap accommodation building where low earners work so they can save more by not travelling)

[R Mutt]

Evangelion said:

I can see a huge poverty trap emerging, whereby large numbers of people can neither afford to buy an EV, nor afford to run the ICE they already have due to increased running costs.

I'm not poor but can't afford, and won't be able to charge an EV at home. I will have to buy the cheapest compliant car until either I move or there are local charging points installed. There are currently only 2 within a 10 minute walk from me, both in paid council car parks.

[otolith]

Evangelion said:

I can see a huge poverty trap emerging, whereby large numbers of people can neither afford to buy an EV, nor afford to run the ICE they already have due to increased running costs.

I think that would be a much bigger problem if instead of saying "No new ICEs after 2035/40" the government had said "We're going to tax the arse out of ICE until everyone has an EV". I think an orderly migration of the primary markets over a decade and a half should result in EVs filtering through to the used market.

[R Mutt]

otolith said:

I think that would be a much bigger problem if instead of saying "No new ICEs after 2035/40" the government had said "We're going to tax the arse out of ICE until everyone has an EV".

You mean by ULEZ?

[Scootersp]

Evangelion said:

I can see a huge poverty trap emerging, whereby large numbers of people can neither afford to buy an EV, nor afford to run the ICE they already have due to increased running costs.

Despite pistonheads supposed demographic! there are more people (voters and desperate ones if pushed) at the lower end and so I think the 'increased' ICE costs might not happen or not very harshly, they will just let the ICE's gradually fade over the years which this new proposal will do.

It's interesting to ponder though whether EV's will ever be shed like though, it's difficult to see there being a £500 snotter EV isn't it?

Lot's of change coming, lots of changes in government too which may see this promise/commitment move out. For all the 'green' desire things have to change to suit the masses and avoid unnecessary disruption, both civil and transport wise.

We are constantly, tiresomely almost, told that we don't pay road tax and that the revenue from tax/duty goes to other spending requirements beyond the roads/transport, so there's going to be a hole in the finances that ultimately won't be filled by punishing the gradual declining numbers of ICE users, and then if not managed well any increases will annoy the new EV owners!

[PRTVR]

Scootersp said:

Evangelion said:

I can see a huge poverty trap emerging, whereby large numbers of people can neither afford to buy an EV, nor afford to run the ICE they already have due to increased running costs.

Despite pistonheads supposed demographic! there are more people (voters and desperate ones if pushed) at the lower end and so I think the 'increased' ICE costs might not happen or not very harshly, they will just let the ICE's gradually fade over the years which this new proposal will do.

It's interesting to ponder though whether EV's will ever be shed like though, it's difficult to see there being a £500 snotter EV isn't it?

Lot's of change coming, lots of changes in government too which may see this promise/commitment move out. For all the 'green' desire things have to change to suit the masses and avoid unnecessary disruption, both civil and transport wise.

We are constantly, tiresomely almost, told that we don't pay road tax and that the revenue from tax/duty goes to other spending requirements beyond the roads/transport, so there's going to be a hole in the finances that ultimately won't be filled by punishing the gradual declining numbers of ICE users, and then if not managed well any increases will annoy the new EV owners!

EV owners are going to be squeezed, as ICE drivers are, there will be a short fall to make up, along with the reduction in revenue from oil and gas ,somebody will have to pay.

[Agammemnon]

Evanivitch said:

Oh I thought you were being facetious, but apparently you're just thick.

I asked about your comments, you reply with insults. Rather than respond I shall merely bid you good day.