New diesel and petrol cars banned from UK roads by 2030
Discussion
https://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/news-and-in...
If you suggest otherwise, you are, im sorry to say, either an idiot, or blinded by your bigotry.
And it's not just BP. All the fossil fuel empires are working as fast as possibel to both diversify their portfolios and to capture the renewable and low carbon energy markets. They are not stupid, they employ very smart people, who are fully aware that to fail to adapt or to evolve is a death sentence. They are all working out how to remain relevant and how to provide a useful and commercially robust service as the passenger car fleet morphs from a fossil fuelled energy mix to a renewable one. These are largely the same companies who worked out how to ride the wave of fossil fuel energy some 50 odd years ago. Back then they worked out how to find oil, 1,000 of meters underground, under hundreds of meters of sea water, hundreds of miles from the nearest shore. How to build machines to extract and transport that oil, to refine it, to disribute it, and to make money doing so. To suggest they can't work out how, in the next few years to wire in a few chargers is niave in the extreme.....
David_Newton_CEO_BPChargemaster said:
We believe our establishment of a nationwide ultra-fast charging network will be transformative for the electric vehicle market in the UK. Working closely with global vehicle manufacturers, we are developing the solutions that electric vehicle drivers need to enable them to charge confidently and conveniently, wherever they are in the country. BP’s forecourts are ideal locations for this technology, which will provide an expected dwell time of 10-12 minutes, not dissimilar from the average of around seven minutes spent by drivers of petrol and diesel cars on a forecourt today.
So the people who own, run, and finance petrol stations have no problems installing fast chargers.If you suggest otherwise, you are, im sorry to say, either an idiot, or blinded by your bigotry.
And it's not just BP. All the fossil fuel empires are working as fast as possibel to both diversify their portfolios and to capture the renewable and low carbon energy markets. They are not stupid, they employ very smart people, who are fully aware that to fail to adapt or to evolve is a death sentence. They are all working out how to remain relevant and how to provide a useful and commercially robust service as the passenger car fleet morphs from a fossil fuelled energy mix to a renewable one. These are largely the same companies who worked out how to ride the wave of fossil fuel energy some 50 odd years ago. Back then they worked out how to find oil, 1,000 of meters underground, under hundreds of meters of sea water, hundreds of miles from the nearest shore. How to build machines to extract and transport that oil, to refine it, to disribute it, and to make money doing so. To suggest they can't work out how, in the next few years to wire in a few chargers is niave in the extreme.....
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 15th November 15:03
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 15th November 15:05
Max_Torque said:
HTP99 said:
Max_Torque said:
Of course, the big difference, is that you don't have diesel coming out sockets at your home. This is a huge, critical fact. Most people will not charge very often away from home? Why would you? You don't go to a phone charging station to charge you smart phone do you? no, you plug it in at home, usually whilst you sleep/ BEVs are no different.
Everybody can charge a phone at home, many can't charge a car at home though, I can't, neither can many of my neighbours as we don't have a drive, nor people who live in flats! I am not suggesting everyone can charge at home. That would be stupid. But the fact remains, in the UK, 68% of houses have some form of off street parking, and my point was that pertty much zero percent of houses have a diesel pump at home. That's a HUGE difference in the requirement for EV specific infrastructure.
In fact, of course, those figues don't even tell the whole story, because of the correlation between the income of the people who live in houses without off-stree parking, and the geographics of those houses. The majority of houses/homes without off-street parking will be
1) in a town
2) owned by lower incoming families.
That means both that they are less likely to need a private car, and less likely to be even able to afford to buy and run one. Now, to be clear, that doesn't mean that NO ONE who lives in a house with no off-street parking will have,or need to have, an EV. Of course not. What it means is that in terms of being a "real problem" it's almost irrelevant overall.
Edited by Max_Torque on Sunday 15th November 14:52
And you talk of bigotry?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Agree, quite the unpleasant individual. Using insults to make a point, usually an indicator of a lack of knowledge,I don’t think he actually understands, or is capable of understanding other people’s views.
You know that person who talks at people until they give up............
Max_Torque said:
Absolute Bunkum. Sorry!
For the vast majority, BEVs are already completely practicable today. For the edge cases, no they are not. Do you drive a transit van because twice a year you need to carry a wardrobe? No of course not.
Charging points will always lag behind demand, that's how capitalism works. From phone masts, to cash machines, public phone booths, bridges, roads themselves, everything.
But what does happen in capitalism, is that demand does drive a response. You'll see, over time, more and more fast chargers at Petrol stations, and less petrol pumps
Rremember when the diesel car was not popular? You only have to go back about 20 years, and there was probably 1 derv pump per 5 or even 10 petrol pumps, and yet, as diesels started to gain a larger proportion of the fleet, petrol pumps got replaced with derv ones. Today, the pump ratio is pretty much 50:50, which reflects the 50:50 ratio of petrols to dervs in the fleet.
As the fleet electrifies, demand will drive fast chargers and they will almost certainly replace first derv, and then petrol pumps!
Of course, the big difference, is that you don't have diesel coming out sockets at your home. This is a huge, critical fact. Most people will not charge very often away from home? Why would you? You don't go to a phone charging station to charge you smart phone do you? no, you plug it in at home, usually whilst you sleep/ BEVs are no different.
Now some people, a tiny minority, will need to do lots of miles, to have vehicles that can reach remote places, or tow heavy loads, and guess what, they will still be driving fossil fuelled powered vehicles for a lot of years yet. But the massive majority of normal people who use their family car to commute, to pick up the kids from school, to buy groceries, to pop round to see their friends, to even go to the pub, they will driving BEVs and they will find them to be faster, quieter, cheaper, easier and more comfortable to drive, more reliable, and more convienient in practically every way.......
Good post.For the vast majority, BEVs are already completely practicable today. For the edge cases, no they are not. Do you drive a transit van because twice a year you need to carry a wardrobe? No of course not.
Charging points will always lag behind demand, that's how capitalism works. From phone masts, to cash machines, public phone booths, bridges, roads themselves, everything.
But what does happen in capitalism, is that demand does drive a response. You'll see, over time, more and more fast chargers at Petrol stations, and less petrol pumps
Rremember when the diesel car was not popular? You only have to go back about 20 years, and there was probably 1 derv pump per 5 or even 10 petrol pumps, and yet, as diesels started to gain a larger proportion of the fleet, petrol pumps got replaced with derv ones. Today, the pump ratio is pretty much 50:50, which reflects the 50:50 ratio of petrols to dervs in the fleet.
As the fleet electrifies, demand will drive fast chargers and they will almost certainly replace first derv, and then petrol pumps!
Of course, the big difference, is that you don't have diesel coming out sockets at your home. This is a huge, critical fact. Most people will not charge very often away from home? Why would you? You don't go to a phone charging station to charge you smart phone do you? no, you plug it in at home, usually whilst you sleep/ BEVs are no different.
Now some people, a tiny minority, will need to do lots of miles, to have vehicles that can reach remote places, or tow heavy loads, and guess what, they will still be driving fossil fuelled powered vehicles for a lot of years yet. But the massive majority of normal people who use their family car to commute, to pick up the kids from school, to buy groceries, to pop round to see their friends, to even go to the pub, they will driving BEVs and they will find them to be faster, quieter, cheaper, easier and more comfortable to drive, more reliable, and more convienient in practically every way.......
I'm not convinced that re-charging all these EVs is going to be a walk in the park. When I bought my house, with it came a garage in a small garage block 50mtrs away, no electricity there, and as the road is a cul-de -sac, parking outside is a nono, road single width. The front garden is to small for of street parking. Many houses on my estate have 2/3 cars.
robinessex said:
I'm not convinced that re-charging all these EVs is going to be a walk in the park. When I bought my house, with it came a garage in a small garage block 50mtrs away, no electricity there, and as the road is a cul-de -sac, parking outside is a nono, road single width. The front garden is to small for of street parking. Many houses on my estate have 2/3 cars.
Where does you car go when you’re using it? If the answer is work then you have your answer there. My work car park could quite easily have hundreds of charging points if required. For those who only do a bit of light pottering and for whom a tank of petrol lasts weeks or longer the answer is when doing their supermarket shop or quite simply having to wait at an electricity station which will become a cafe rather than a shop for 30 mins while it charges.I honestly don’t believe charging a vehicle is much more than a minor inconvenience. Generating the power to charge the cars is definitely going to be a challenge and I guess that may require more home generation (solar presumably?).
djc206 said:
Where does you car go when you’re using it? If the answer is work then you have your answer there. My work car park could quite easily have hundreds of charging points if required. For those who only do a bit of light pottering and for whom a tank of petrol lasts weeks or longer the answer is when doing their supermarket shop or quite simply having to wait at an electricity station which will become a cafe rather than a shop for 30 mins while it charges.
I honestly don’t believe charging a vehicle is much more than a minor inconvenience. Generating the power to charge the cars is definitely going to be a challenge and I guess that may require more home generation (solar presumably?).
Of course work car parks could have a load of charging points installed - but who the hell is going to pay for that? 1000 spaces, 7kW a pop, that’s a 7MW feed for the most basic charging capability.I honestly don’t believe charging a vehicle is much more than a minor inconvenience. Generating the power to charge the cars is definitely going to be a challenge and I guess that may require more home generation (solar presumably?).
rxe said:
Of course work car parks could have a load of charging points installed - but who the hell is going to pay for that? 1000 spaces, 7kW a pop, that’s a 7MW feed for the most basic charging capability.
The same person whose demand currently pays for the installation, maintenance and profits of petrol stations and oil companies. You and I. You’re just moving where you buy your energy from, you’re still buying energy, it still requires infrastructure. Nothing will have fundamentally changed.With big infrastructure problems it always amazes me how defeatist and Luddite the general population are. Some things are going to be difficult, let’s give up!
Though it’s pretty interesting to watching opinions shift and soften...then I get annoyed when they proclaim they thought it was a good idea all along
Though it’s pretty interesting to watching opinions shift and soften...then I get annoyed when they proclaim they thought it was a good idea all along
djc206 said:
rxe said:
Of course work car parks could have a load of charging points installed - but who the hell is going to pay for that? 1000 spaces, 7kW a pop, that’s a 7MW feed for the most basic charging capability.
The same person whose demand currently pays for the installation, maintenance and profits of petrol stations and oil companies. You and I. You’re just moving where you buy your energy from, you’re still buying energy, it still requires infrastructure. Nothing will have fundamentally changed.Petrol infrastructure grew organically with demand by contrast. A many buying / building a petrol station is joining a mature market. Much less risk.
Have you looked at what the cost and power require the of this would be or is it a theoretical bit maybe impossible answer to a problem?
djc206 said:
Where does you car go when you’re using it? If the answer is work then you have your answer there. My work car park could quite easily have hundreds of charging points if required. For those who only do a bit of light pottering and for whom a tank of petrol lasts weeks or longer the answer is when doing their supermarket shop or quite simply having to wait at an electricity station which will become a cafe rather than a shop for 30 mins while it charges.
I honestly don’t believe charging a vehicle is much more than a minor inconvenience. Generating the power to charge the cars is definitely going to be a challenge and I guess that may require more home generation (solar presumably?).
Clarify for me, please: the car is at the work car park during the day & presumably at home at night. Presuming that the solar panels aren't very good at night, what good is the home generation capacity? If the charging is at work how does the employer fund the huge infrastructure bill?I honestly don’t believe charging a vehicle is much more than a minor inconvenience. Generating the power to charge the cars is definitely going to be a challenge and I guess that may require more home generation (solar presumably?).
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Ok, lets cut to chase. You disagree (obviously) so please anwer YES or NO to the followin statements:1) 68% of houses have Off street parking (YES/NO)
2) 32% of houses do not have off steet parking (YES/NO)
3) Of that 32% without, a significantly large number are likely to be households that do not have a car, compared to the 68% of houses with off street parking (YES/NO)
4) The total proportion of car owning houses that therefore do have off street parking is greater than 68% by some amount (YES/NO)
5) > 68% would be considered a "majority" (where 100% is ALL, 0% is NONE and 50% is HALF) (YES/NO)
So which of those are you suggesting is not true?
robinessex said:
Most garages I know of are over crowed mayhem now. Bung in an assitional recharging facilty will be nigh on impossibe to install, and have no room to function either. Hope the whole lot don't blow up either, lots of electricity next to the second most powerful explosive substance on the planet.
There will be plenty more space for charging points when most of the fossil fuel pumps are removed. jakesmith said:
It’s a huge infrastructure investment needed to be made all in one go to work as car / transport is already an existing thing.
Petrol infrastructure grew organically with demand by contrast. A many buying / building a petrol station is joining a mature market. Much less risk.
Have you looked at what the cost and power require the of this would be or is it a theoretical bit maybe impossible answer to a problem?
No doubt. EV charging provision is already growing organically, 2030 is pie in the sky though, just not feasible.Petrol infrastructure grew organically with demand by contrast. A many buying / building a petrol station is joining a mature market. Much less risk.
Have you looked at what the cost and power require the of this would be or is it a theoretical bit maybe impossible answer to a problem?
I’ve already addressed your last point agreeing that I don’t think the govt is adequately prepared for this move and that power generation is going to be the biggest obstacle.
Biggy Stardust said:
Clarify for me, please: the car is at the work car park during the day & presumably at home at night. Presuming that the solar panels aren't very good at night, what good is the home generation capacity? If the charging is at work how does the employer fund the huge infrastructure bill?
Home storage. Something that is already starting to happen.The employer doesn’t. Energy companies install charging points and then charge for the energy. It’s already happening it doesn’t require some magic solution.
rxe said:
djc206 said:
Where does you car go when you’re using it? If the answer is work then you have your answer there. My work car park could quite easily have hundreds of charging points if required. For those who only do a bit of light pottering and for whom a tank of petrol lasts weeks or longer the answer is when doing their supermarket shop or quite simply having to wait at an electricity station which will become a cafe rather than a shop for 30 mins while it charges.
I honestly don’t believe charging a vehicle is much more than a minor inconvenience. Generating the power to charge the cars is definitely going to be a challenge and I guess that may require more home generation (solar presumably?).
Of course work car parks could have a load of charging points installed - but who the hell is going to pay for that? 1000 spaces, 7kW a pop, that’s a 7MW feed for the most basic charging capability.I honestly don’t believe charging a vehicle is much more than a minor inconvenience. Generating the power to charge the cars is definitely going to be a challenge and I guess that may require more home generation (solar presumably?).
Now subtract all the people who charge at home, or use a supercharger (or equivalent).
The average person could actually cope with a full charge once per week or so, much the same way they fill their car ICE up when they run low rather than every day.
djc206 said:
No doubt. EV charging provision is already growing organically, 2030 is pie in the sky though, just not feasible.
2030 is the point at which PURE ICE is banned from new sales. Our UK passenger car fleet is 40 million vehicles. We buy around 2 Million new cars each year, so thats 20 years over which the fleet would take to move from ICE to mostly BEV! And that's assuming that no hybrids are sold after 2030, which they are goign to be.djc206 said:
Biggy Stardust said:
Clarify for me, please: the car is at the work car park during the day & presumably at home at night. Presuming that the solar panels aren't very good at night, what good is the home generation capacity? If the charging is at work how does the employer fund the huge infrastructure bill?
Home storage. Something that is already starting to happen.The employer doesn’t. Energy companies install charging points and then charge for the energy. It’s already happening it doesn’t require some magic solution.
djc206 said:
rxe said:
Of course work car parks could have a load of charging points installed - but who the hell is going to pay for that? 1000 spaces, 7kW a pop, that’s a 7MW feed for the most basic charging capability.
The same person whose demand currently pays for the installation, maintenance and profits of petrol stations and oil companies. You and I. You’re just moving where you buy your energy from, you’re still buying energy, it still requires infrastructure. Nothing will have fundamentally changed.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff