New diesel and petrol cars banned from UK roads by 2030

[eccles]

df76 said:

djc206 said:

rxe said:

Of course work car parks could have a load of charging points installed - but who the hell is going to pay for that? 1000 spaces, 7kW a pop, that’s a 7MW feed for the most basic charging capability.

The same person whose demand currently pays for the installation, maintenance and profits of petrol stations and oil companies. You and I. You’re just moving where you buy your energy from, you’re still buying energy, it still requires infrastructure. Nothing will have fundamentally changed.

And you won't need to have charging facilities at every single space. Not everyone will need to use it (only those without charging at home), and you won't need to charge every car each day (it's not as if you go to the petrol station as part of every trip). If your commute is reasonable, you might only need to use a charging space once a week.

Makes you wonder if we'll go to having a car park attendant who either moves the charging point or moves the cars around as required.

[djc206]

Max_Torque said:

2030 is the point at which PURE ICE is banned from new sales. Our UK passenger car fleet is 40 million vehicles. We buy around 2 Million new cars each year, so thats 20 years over which the fleet would take to move from ICE to mostly BEV! And that's assuming that no hybrids are sold after 2030, which they are goign to be.

I know it’s not a 2030 cutoff. I just think our government hasn’t made adequate provisions to meet their own target. But then they don’t need to worry too much as they’ll likely not be in power by then.

As above the roadblock is going to be power generation. I’m not a Luddite I drive a PHEV, I think EV’s are the future and I love wafting around in electric mode. I can charge at home, I can charge at work (I don’t bother) and I can even charge at a number of local supermarkets. I’ve no doubt that provision will only increase but the government really does need to do something about power generation, National Grid estimate we’ll need at least 6GW (much higher estimates exist) more capacity, that’s no mean feat. That needs sorting in the next 2 decades. We’ve not built a 3km long stretch of much needed tarmac at Heathrow for a couple of decades longer than that, we take decades to argue over building nuclear power stations, HS2 was first proposed over a decade ago, that’s how slowly this country moves with infrastructure projects. That pace will need to increase to meet the needs of EV drivers.

[anonymous-user]

Max_Torque said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Ok, lets cut to chase. You disagree (obviously) so please anwer YES or NO to the followin statements:

1) 68% of houses have Off street parking (YES/NO)

2) 32% of houses do not have off steet parking (YES/NO)

3) Of that 32% without, a significantly large number are likely to be households that do not have a car, compared to the 68% of houses with off street parking (YES/NO)


4) The total proportion of car owning houses that therefore do have off street parking is greater than 68% by some amount (YES/NO)

5) > 68% would be considered a "majority" (where 100% is ALL, 0% is NONE and 50% is HALF) (YES/NO)



So which of those are you suggesting is not true?

I'm suggesting that you're suggesting a system that locks people out of car ownership because of how much they earn and where they live.

[df76]

eccles said:

df76 said:

djc206 said:

rxe said:

Of course work car parks could have a load of charging points installed - but who the hell is going to pay for that? 1000 spaces, 7kW a pop, that’s a 7MW feed for the most basic charging capability.

The same person whose demand currently pays for the installation, maintenance and profits of petrol stations and oil companies. You and I. You’re just moving where you buy your energy from, you’re still buying energy, it still requires infrastructure. Nothing will have fundamentally changed.

And you won't need to have charging facilities at every single space. Not everyone will need to use it (only those without charging at home), and you won't need to charge every car each day (it's not as if you go to the petrol station as part of every trip). If your commute is reasonable, you might only need to use a charging space once a week.

Makes you wonder if we'll go to having a car park attendant who either moves the charging point or moves the cars around as required.

I suspect not. You would only charge away from home if you really have to, as that's always going to be more expensive. And there would be a financial model in place to ensure that valuable car park charging spots aren't being "wasted".

[djc206]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

How does it?

They’ll just have to use a charging station rather than charge at home.

Mountains out of molehills.

[df76]

djc206 said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

How does it?

They’ll just have to use a charging station or rather than charge at home.

Mountains out of molehills.

Exactly, just have to charge at the destination rather than at home. It won't be as cheap, but certainly not impossible. The biggest challenge is going to be for petrol / diesel owners as the petrol stations start to disappear over time. It will become much easier (and cheaper) just to go electric.

[anonymous-user]

djc206 said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

How does it?

They’ll just have to use a charging station or rather than charge at home.

Mountains out of molehills.

So I trust you won't be installing a home charger?

[djc206]

df76 said:

Exactly, just have to charge at the destination rather than at home. It won't be as cheap, but certainly not impossible. The biggest challenge is going to be for petrol / diesel owners as the petrol stations start to disappear over time. It will become much easier (and cheaper) just to go electric.

Introduce competition into the market and I don’t see it being too much more expensive to charge at destination, certainly cheaper than petrol still although the lost duties and taxes will be added somewhere along the line no doubt.

Currently some shopping centres and supermarkets allow drivers to charge for free to entice them in. I can’t remember the last time Tesco offered me a free tank of petrol to shop there.

[98elise]

jakesmith said:

djc206 said:

rxe said:

Of course work car parks could have a load of charging points installed - but who the hell is going to pay for that? 1000 spaces, 7kW a pop, that’s a 7MW feed for the most basic charging capability.

The same person whose demand currently pays for the installation, maintenance and profits of petrol stations and oil companies. You and I. You’re just moving where you buy your energy from, you’re still buying energy, it still requires infrastructure. Nothing will have fundamentally changed.

It’s a huge infrastructure investment needed to be made all in one go to work as car / transport is already an existing thing.
Petrol infrastructure grew organically with demand by contrast. A many buying / building a petrol station is joining a mature market. Much less risk.
Have you looked at what the cost and power require the of this would be or is it a theoretical bit maybe impossible answer to a problem?

Huge risky infrastructure project...



Easy, less risk...

[TeaNoSugar]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

He really isn’t, and you know it.

What’s wrong with connecting up the majority of people (those with driveways and off-road parking) ASAP and then the people with more challenging living arrangements!

It’s like saying nobody should have mobile phone coverage until everyone can get it because it “locks people out of mobile communications”.

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I'm not saying that nobody can have BEV until everybody can have BEV.
Please read properly!

The point is not to take away the option of a reliable vehicle for those who cannot have BEV.

[anonymous-user]

98elise said:

Huge risky infrastructure project...

Now count the cars and count the lampposts.

Then work out how you're going to force people to park fairly and properly to enable everyone LIVING on that street to get a space near their house any and every time they need it.

[djc206]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

No, what you’ve done is assert that the inability to charge a car at home somehow locks people out of car ownership which it does not. It’s faux outrage.

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Hellooo, djc? Helllooooo!

[robinessex]

A quick back off envelope calculation shows that to replace 1 days sale of petrol and diesel in the uk would require us to increase our electricity output by 50% I think I've got the calc correct

[djc206]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I’ve already got one. Why would I not? I didn’t say it was less convenient I said it wasn’t an issue. It’s not.

Like I also said I can charge at work, I can charge when I’m wandering around Tesco (for free!). You’ve created an issue where one does not exist. Petrol stations will sell electricity as well as petrol, problem solved.

[df76]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Not sure the purpose of the question? If someone has the opportunity install a charger, they would obviously do it. But that doesn't mean that having one is critical..

[Gecko1978]

robinessex said:

A quick back off envelope calculation shows that to replace 1 days sale of petrol and diesel in the uk would require us to increase our electricity output by 50% I think I've got the calc correct

Are you saying to charge all cars or are you saying to make the same money for the government

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

So you're happy to put words in my mouth, but can't actually disagree with any of the facts i posted.

And lets get some more FACTS set out shall we:

The ban on NEW ice car sales in 2030 is not preventing any low income families from buying a car, because low income familys cannot afford a new car. Low income families are the ones driving around today in beaten up 2003 plate, 7 owner, corsa's and zafira's. That in no way changes in 2030 as no one is banning the purchase,ownership or use of exsting ICE vehicles.

Thereis and will continue be a vast second hand market for cheap second hand ICE vehicles. In fact, as more and more people move to EVs and less and less people want an ICE, chances are those ICE cars will become MORE affordable for low income families. And petrol and diesel, as demand falls is also likely to become cheaper too.

So the OPPOSITE of the words you are putting in my mouth could well happen...........

[djc206]

robinessex said:

A quick back off envelope calculation shows that to replace 1 days sale of petrol and diesel in the uk would require us to increase our electricity output by 50% I think I've got the calc correct

National grid have created forecasts. It’s not 50%, not even close. But it’s still a lot and will need some major investment.