New diesel and petrol cars banned from UK roads by 2030
Discussion
Digga said:
Max_Torque said:
They've really thought about this whole charging thing you know :-)
I'd heard about this site but it is even more impressive in the detail of it. I hope they can roll this concept out.
We can only hope that in 2030+ there are far fewer cars on the road, or the queues for these places will be massive. Of course, you can just pop to the one a mile or so away i suppose, see if that is free.
Sorry, it is pie in the sky. Look at the space that place take up vs a petrol station! Bonkers
poo at Paul's said:
So they can charge 36 cars up every hour or so? Guessing say £40 per car, that is going to take some time to recoup the costs back!
We can only hope that in 2030+ there are far fewer cars on the road, or the queues for these places will be massive. Of course, you can just pop to the one a mile or so away i suppose, see if that is free.
Sorry, it is pie in the sky. Look at the space that place take up vs a petrol station! Bonkers
Based on that video its a shopfront for car leasing trying to get a jump on the EV market. The financials on how this model pays would be revealing. We can only hope that in 2030+ there are far fewer cars on the road, or the queues for these places will be massive. Of course, you can just pop to the one a mile or so away i suppose, see if that is free.
Sorry, it is pie in the sky. Look at the space that place take up vs a petrol station! Bonkers
it is certainly a good looking development.
to make sense of it financially, i suppose you need to view it in the same context as a historical service station, they make (from memory, so i may be wrong) 4p/litre on the fuel, so 2.40 per fill up, they therefore rely on you getting a twix and a bottle of water to prop up their profitability.
this is no different, they will be paying absolute max 15p/kwh for the electric and charging 24p so 9p x 40kw top up is 3.60 per 25 minute stay, plus whatever exorbitant rent they can get from costa/whsmith etc. They also get a decent opportunity to lease you your next car. the cost of building the site would be about the same once you factor everything in, (fuel stations are hellish expensive to build/commission)
it isn't a fantasy, it works as well as an existing service station
to make sense of it financially, i suppose you need to view it in the same context as a historical service station, they make (from memory, so i may be wrong) 4p/litre on the fuel, so 2.40 per fill up, they therefore rely on you getting a twix and a bottle of water to prop up their profitability.
this is no different, they will be paying absolute max 15p/kwh for the electric and charging 24p so 9p x 40kw top up is 3.60 per 25 minute stay, plus whatever exorbitant rent they can get from costa/whsmith etc. They also get a decent opportunity to lease you your next car. the cost of building the site would be about the same once you factor everything in, (fuel stations are hellish expensive to build/commission)
it isn't a fantasy, it works as well as an existing service station
poo at Paul's said:
So they can charge 36 cars up every hour or so? Guessing say £40 per car, that is going to take some time to recoup the costs back!
We can only hope that in 2030+ there are far fewer cars on the road, or the queues for these places will be massive. Of course, you can just pop to the one a mile or so away i suppose, see if that is free.
Sorry, it is pie in the sky. Look at the space that place take up vs a petrol station! Bonkers
National Car Parks will be looking at this seriously for their multi-storey facilities in particular. Think of all the extra revenue this would bring on top of their exorbitant parking fees.We can only hope that in 2030+ there are far fewer cars on the road, or the queues for these places will be massive. Of course, you can just pop to the one a mile or so away i suppose, see if that is free.
Sorry, it is pie in the sky. Look at the space that place take up vs a petrol station! Bonkers
Gridserve are mostly into solar and battery storage. This site has a 6MWh battery and can make decent money for them just taking up excess cheap renewable power off the grid (like on a windy night) and putting it back when demand and wholesale prices are higher, as well as acting as a buffer when lots of people on site want to charge at once. Anyone who's looked at Octopus Agile tariff for home knows how cheap (and expensive) wholesale rates can be at different times.
They'll probably make more from their battery than people paying to charge their cars there. The chargers give them a reason to have retail (more income) and to put a big battery somewhere with a good grid connection.
They'll probably make more from their battery than people paying to charge their cars there. The chargers give them a reason to have retail (more income) and to put a big battery somewhere with a good grid connection.
JmatthewB said:
Interesting that in November combined sales of Electric and Plug-in-Hybrid vehicles exceeded diesel car sales. 15.9% v 14%
Absolutely any company car fleet needs to look at going EV or Hybrid or have their head examined. The tax breaks are clear.Only place diesel 'wins' is the high-mileage rep/exec, but in the case of the former, cold-call doorknocking is not very post-Covid, and the execs and boards are going to want to virtue signal with green alternatives anyway.
Boll0x to all this battery powered misery, the answer is here : https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
No need to ban ICE.
The CO2 extraction from the atmosphere in the synthetic fuel process offsets the fossil fuel usage, if I've assumed correctly.
No need to ban ICE.
The CO2 extraction from the atmosphere in the synthetic fuel process offsets the fossil fuel usage, if I've assumed correctly.
indeed, people talk about the emotion of ICE whilst driving a 2.0d passat.
It isn't a 911 2.7rs we are looking to get off the road, just the miasma associated with the sea of utterly unextraordinary boxes cluttering up the roads. synthetic fuel will surely have a place for limited usage, but it won't be possible in anything like the volumes necessary to power a significant fleet of vehicles.
It isn't a 911 2.7rs we are looking to get off the road, just the miasma associated with the sea of utterly unextraordinary boxes cluttering up the roads. synthetic fuel will surely have a place for limited usage, but it won't be possible in anything like the volumes necessary to power a significant fleet of vehicles.
sjg said:
Gridserve are mostly into solar and battery storage. This site has a 6MWh battery and can make decent money for them just taking up excess cheap renewable power off the grid (like on a windy night) and putting it back when demand and wholesale prices are higher, as well as acting as a buffer when lots of people on site want to charge at once. Anyone who's looked at Octopus Agile tariff for home knows how cheap (and expensive) wholesale rates can be at different times.
They'll probably make more from their battery than people paying to charge their cars there. The chargers give them a reason to have retail (more income) and to put a big battery somewhere with a good grid connection.
Will be interesting to see how their numbers stack and see which business they are really in.They'll probably make more from their battery than people paying to charge their cars there. The chargers give them a reason to have retail (more income) and to put a big battery somewhere with a good grid connection.
JmatthewB said:
Interesting that in November combined sales of Electric and Plug-in-Hybrid vehicles exceeded diesel car sales. 15.9% v 14%
Not really a surprise or, indeed, interesting - at least, not if you know your company car tax rates, anyway!I've just swapped a 520d for an X1 25e PHEV. List prices about the same (£44k)
Tax on 520d - £420 / month.
Tax on X1 25e - £145 / month.
The diesel company car has been taxed out of existence since April. Everyone is ordering a petrol PHEV now.
Greg_D said:
it is certainly a good looking development.
to make sense of it financially, i suppose you need to view it in the same context as a historical service station, they make (from memory, so i may be wrong) 4p/litre on the fuel, so 2.40 per fill up, they therefore rely on you getting a twix and a bottle of water to prop up their profitability.
this is no different, they will be paying absolute max 15p/kwh for the electric and charging 24p so 9p x 40kw top up is 3.60 per 25 minute stay, plus whatever exorbitant rent they can get from costa/whsmith etc. They also get a decent opportunity to lease you your next car. the cost of building the site would be about the same once you factor everything in, (fuel stations are hellish expensive to build/commission)
it isn't a fantasy, it works as well as an existing service station
Average forecourt will throughput around 4 million litres of fuel a year. Even at a low 4p margin, that's £160k. But the real world margin is 2-4 times that these days.to make sense of it financially, i suppose you need to view it in the same context as a historical service station, they make (from memory, so i may be wrong) 4p/litre on the fuel, so 2.40 per fill up, they therefore rely on you getting a twix and a bottle of water to prop up their profitability.
this is no different, they will be paying absolute max 15p/kwh for the electric and charging 24p so 9p x 40kw top up is 3.60 per 25 minute stay, plus whatever exorbitant rent they can get from costa/whsmith etc. They also get a decent opportunity to lease you your next car. the cost of building the site would be about the same once you factor everything in, (fuel stations are hellish expensive to build/commission)
it isn't a fantasy, it works as well as an existing service station
Greg_D said:
Landcrab_Six said:
Average forecourt will throughput around 4 million litres of fuel a year. Even at a low 4p margin, that's £160k. But the real world margin is 2-4 times that these days.
Good to know. Do you have experience in that industry?Indeed government may potentially have to step in to fill strategic, geographic and logistic holes in the future network of public charge points.
Landcrab_Six said:
Average forecourt will throughput around 4 million litres of fuel a year. Even at a low 4p margin, that's £160k. But the real world margin is 2-4 times that these days.
And on a tenth the footprint with ready ubiquitous access to the roads network! Trouble is, if you try to convert the existing refueling stations to EV, they cannot physically throughput enough fuel, as there is no space, there's all the planning to go through, so stations will just change use to housing!! I know there is a big reduction in travel for most at the moment, but this is such a retrograde step for personal mobility.
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