New diesel and petrol cars banned from UK roads by 2030

New diesel and petrol cars banned from UK roads by 2030

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anonymous-user

55 months

Friday 4th December 2020
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They've really thought about this whole charging thing you know :-)

Digga

40,407 posts

284 months

Friday 4th December 2020
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Max_Torque said:



They've really thought about this whole charging thing you know :-)
Haven't they just.

I'd heard about this site but it is even more impressive in the detail of it. I hope they can roll this concept out.

poo at Paul's

14,177 posts

176 months

Friday 4th December 2020
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Digga said:
Max_Torque said:



They've really thought about this whole charging thing you know :-)
Haven't they just.

I'd heard about this site but it is even more impressive in the detail of it. I hope they can roll this concept out.
So they can charge 36 cars up every hour or so? Guessing say £40 per car, that is going to take some time to recoup the costs back!

We can only hope that in 2030+ there are far fewer cars on the road, or the queues for these places will be massive. Of course, you can just pop to the one a mile or so away i suppose, see if that is free.

Sorry, it is pie in the sky. Look at the space that place take up vs a petrol station! Bonkers

anonymous-user

55 months

Friday 4th December 2020
quotequote all
poo at Paul's said:
So they can charge 36 cars up every hour or so? Guessing say £40 per car, that is going to take some time to recoup the costs back!

We can only hope that in 2030+ there are far fewer cars on the road, or the queues for these places will be massive. Of course, you can just pop to the one a mile or so away i suppose, see if that is free.

Sorry, it is pie in the sky. Look at the space that place take up vs a petrol station! Bonkers
Based on that video its a shopfront for car leasing trying to get a jump on the EV market. The financials on how this model pays would be revealing.

Greg_D

6,542 posts

247 months

Friday 4th December 2020
quotequote all
it is certainly a good looking development.

to make sense of it financially, i suppose you need to view it in the same context as a historical service station, they make (from memory, so i may be wrong) 4p/litre on the fuel, so 2.40 per fill up, they therefore rely on you getting a twix and a bottle of water to prop up their profitability.

this is no different, they will be paying absolute max 15p/kwh for the electric and charging 24p so 9p x 40kw top up is 3.60 per 25 minute stay, plus whatever exorbitant rent they can get from costa/whsmith etc. They also get a decent opportunity to lease you your next car. the cost of building the site would be about the same once you factor everything in, (fuel stations are hellish expensive to build/commission)

it isn't a fantasy, it works as well as an existing service station

RegMolehusband

3,967 posts

258 months

Friday 4th December 2020
quotequote all
poo at Paul's said:
So they can charge 36 cars up every hour or so? Guessing say £40 per car, that is going to take some time to recoup the costs back!

We can only hope that in 2030+ there are far fewer cars on the road, or the queues for these places will be massive. Of course, you can just pop to the one a mile or so away i suppose, see if that is free.

Sorry, it is pie in the sky. Look at the space that place take up vs a petrol station! Bonkers
National Car Parks will be looking at this seriously for their multi-storey facilities in particular. Think of all the extra revenue this would bring on top of their exorbitant parking fees.

sjg

7,461 posts

266 months

Friday 4th December 2020
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Gridserve are mostly into solar and battery storage. This site has a 6MWh battery and can make decent money for them just taking up excess cheap renewable power off the grid (like on a windy night) and putting it back when demand and wholesale prices are higher, as well as acting as a buffer when lots of people on site want to charge at once. Anyone who's looked at Octopus Agile tariff for home knows how cheap (and expensive) wholesale rates can be at different times.

They'll probably make more from their battery than people paying to charge their cars there. The chargers give them a reason to have retail (more income) and to put a big battery somewhere with a good grid connection.

otolith

56,374 posts

205 months

Friday 4th December 2020
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poo at Paul's said:
So they can charge 36 cars up every hour or so? Guessing say £40 per car, that is going to take some time to recoup the costs back!
The financials are covered 11 minutes in.

JmatthewB

915 posts

123 months

Friday 4th December 2020
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Interesting that in November combined sales of Electric and Plug-in-Hybrid vehicles exceeded diesel car sales. 15.9% v 14%

Digga

40,407 posts

284 months

Friday 4th December 2020
quotequote all
JmatthewB said:
Interesting that in November combined sales of Electric and Plug-in-Hybrid vehicles exceeded diesel car sales. 15.9% v 14%
Absolutely any company car fleet needs to look at going EV or Hybrid or have their head examined. The tax breaks are clear.

Only place diesel 'wins' is the high-mileage rep/exec, but in the case of the former, cold-call doorknocking is not very post-Covid, and the execs and boards are going to want to virtue signal with green alternatives anyway.

GroundZero

2,085 posts

55 months

Friday 4th December 2020
quotequote all
Boll0x to all this battery powered misery, the answer is here : https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

No need to ban ICE.
The CO2 extraction from the atmosphere in the synthetic fuel process offsets the fossil fuel usage, if I've assumed correctly.

anonymous-user

55 months

Friday 4th December 2020
quotequote all
GroundZero said:
Boll0x to all this battery powered misery,
The case for the prosecution wish to include the following photo as evidence Your Honour





:-)



Greg_D

6,542 posts

247 months

Friday 4th December 2020
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indeed, people talk about the emotion of ICE whilst driving a 2.0d passat.
It isn't a 911 2.7rs we are looking to get off the road, just the miasma associated with the sea of utterly unextraordinary boxes cluttering up the roads. synthetic fuel will surely have a place for limited usage, but it won't be possible in anything like the volumes necessary to power a significant fleet of vehicles.

CallThatMusic

2,602 posts

89 months

Friday 4th December 2020
quotequote all
sjg said:
Gridserve are mostly into solar and battery storage. This site has a 6MWh battery and can make decent money for them just taking up excess cheap renewable power off the grid (like on a windy night) and putting it back when demand and wholesale prices are higher, as well as acting as a buffer when lots of people on site want to charge at once. Anyone who's looked at Octopus Agile tariff for home knows how cheap (and expensive) wholesale rates can be at different times.

They'll probably make more from their battery than people paying to charge their cars there. The chargers give them a reason to have retail (more income) and to put a big battery somewhere with a good grid connection.
Will be interesting to see how their numbers stack and see which business they are really in.

anonymous-user

55 months

Friday 4th December 2020
quotequote all
JmatthewB said:
Interesting that in November combined sales of Electric and Plug-in-Hybrid vehicles exceeded diesel car sales. 15.9% v 14%
Not really a surprise or, indeed, interesting - at least, not if you know your company car tax rates, anyway!

I've just swapped a 520d for an X1 25e PHEV. List prices about the same (£44k)

Tax on 520d - £420 / month.

Tax on X1 25e - £145 / month.

The diesel company car has been taxed out of existence since April. Everyone is ordering a petrol PHEV now.

anonymous-user

55 months

Friday 4th December 2020
quotequote all
Greg_D said:
it is certainly a good looking development.

to make sense of it financially, i suppose you need to view it in the same context as a historical service station, they make (from memory, so i may be wrong) 4p/litre on the fuel, so 2.40 per fill up, they therefore rely on you getting a twix and a bottle of water to prop up their profitability.

this is no different, they will be paying absolute max 15p/kwh for the electric and charging 24p so 9p x 40kw top up is 3.60 per 25 minute stay, plus whatever exorbitant rent they can get from costa/whsmith etc. They also get a decent opportunity to lease you your next car. the cost of building the site would be about the same once you factor everything in, (fuel stations are hellish expensive to build/commission)

it isn't a fantasy, it works as well as an existing service station
Average forecourt will throughput around 4 million litres of fuel a year. Even at a low 4p margin, that's £160k. But the real world margin is 2-4 times that these days.


Greg_D

6,542 posts

247 months

Friday 4th December 2020
quotequote all
Landcrab_Six said:
Average forecourt will throughput around 4 million litres of fuel a year. Even at a low 4p margin, that's £160k. But the real world margin is 2-4 times that these days.

Good to know. Do you have experience in that industry?

anonymous-user

55 months

Friday 4th December 2020
quotequote all
Greg_D said:
Good to know. Do you have experience in that industry?
I know some people through my convenience retailing work.

Digga

40,407 posts

284 months

Saturday 5th December 2020
quotequote all
Greg_D said:
Landcrab_Six said:
Average forecourt will throughput around 4 million litres of fuel a year. Even at a low 4p margin, that's £160k. But the real world margin is 2-4 times that these days.

Good to know. Do you have experience in that industry?
I guess though, margins on the 'old' petrol and diesel sales is moot. Moving forward, someone, somehow must and will figure out the model for extracting profit from EV charging, although given the huge advantage for many is home and/or workplace charging, the overall market will inevitably be smaller.

Indeed government may potentially have to step in to fill strategic, geographic and logistic holes in the future network of public charge points.

poo at Paul's

14,177 posts

176 months

Saturday 5th December 2020
quotequote all
Landcrab_Six said:
Average forecourt will throughput around 4 million litres of fuel a year. Even at a low 4p margin, that's £160k. But the real world margin is 2-4 times that these days.

And on a tenth the footprint with ready ubiquitous access to the roads network! Trouble is, if you try to convert the existing refueling stations to EV, they cannot physically throughput enough fuel, as there is no space, there's all the planning to go through, so stations will just change use to housing!!

I know there is a big reduction in travel for most at the moment, but this is such a retrograde step for personal mobility.