New diesel and petrol cars banned from UK roads by 2030

[robinessex]

What ICE vehicles will be almost impossible to replace with electric power. I'm thinking of military, farming and construction.

[Lily the Pink]

robinessex said:

What ICE vehicles will be almost impossible to replace with electric power. I'm thinking of military, farming and construction.

All-electric tractors are available - at a price. Best suited to autonomous operation in large fields, I guess. Some of them use an umbilical connection which sounds awkward. Probably also feasible for small yard tractors which don't do many hours in a day or cover long distances away from a power point. Not so sure about suitability for tasks like hedge-cutting - a long way from home with large power requirements.

Edited to add link : https://www.deere.co.uk/en/agriculture/future-of-f...

Edited by Lily the Pink on Saturday 5th December 10:59

[skyrover]

robinessex said:

What ICE vehicles will be almost impossible to replace with electric power. I'm thinking of military, farming and construction.

Don't forget small engine equipment such as chainsaws, hedge trimmers, lawnmowers, wood chippers, stump grinders etc

The battery powered stuff is just not good enough for sustained commercial use.

Edited by skyrover on Saturday 5th December 11:04

[anonymous-user]

Lily the Pink said:

robinessex said:

What ICE vehicles will be almost impossible to replace with electric power. I'm thinking of military, farming and construction.

All-electric tractors are available - at a price. Best suited to autonomous operation in large fields, I guess. Some of them use an umbilical connection which sounds awkward. Probably also feasible for small yard tractors which don't do many hours in a day or cover long distances away from a power point. Not so sure about suitability for tasks like hedge-cutting - a long way from home with large power requirements.

Edited to add link : https://www.deere.co.uk/en/agriculture/future-of-f...

Edited by Lily the Pink on Saturday 5th December 10:59

Hydrogen electric would be better for agri use, if electric was the mode.

However syn-fuels and CNG might get a look in here.

Same goes for shipping, if they're electric then that electric is more likely to be nuclear (in military cases anyway) or hydrogen sourced, not simply battery electric.

[Harrison Bergeron]

poo at Paul's said:

So they can charge 36 cars up every hour or so? Guessing say £40 per car, that is going to take some time to recoup the costs back!

We can only hope that in 2030+ there are far fewer cars on the road, or the queues for these places will be massive. Of course, you can just pop to the one a mile or so away i suppose, see if that is free.

Sorry, it is pie in the sky. Look at the space that place take up vs a petrol station! Bonkers

40 quid per fill up. I thought electric cars were supposed to be cheaper than ICE cars?

[anonymous-user]

skyrover said:

The battery powered stuff is just not good enough for sustained commercial use.

And yet, i'm going to suggest that battery powered handtools now dominate in most industries, simply because they are super convient and are able to provide enough power for most tasks. Yes, if you are actually dropping giant redwoods all day long by hand then you'll not find a battery chainsaw to do that, but most felling is machine handled these days, and the chainsaw is really just for the odd tidying up or trimming job. Every builder and electrician i uses these days is increasingly battery powered!

Not that long ago if you wanted to drill holes you needed a 240v mains drill, today, there are a large number of affordable, powerful and effective battery drills that do the job. With a coople of batteries, they can do it pretty much continuously too (one (or more) batteries on charge, one being used)

[benny.c]

My mate who runs a construction company was considering an electric tele-handler....

https://www.jcb.com/en-gb/products/telescopic-hand...

It’s the kind of plant they have on site all day but don’t use all the time so it would make sense for him.

[RegMolehusband]

I doubt very much that we will ever see a battery powered 40 tonne truck grinding up Shap on the M6 or over the M62 Manchester to Leeds. They might have a reasonable range cruising at 50mph on the flat but once they are asked to apply maximum tractive effort to the road surface for 20 minutes at a time I bet that range is obliterated.

Edited by RegMolehusband on Saturday 5th December 16:37

[anonymous-user]

I've just done the survey for my charger install.

I have a 60A main fuse. This is a 20 year old 'new build' development. There are many company car drivers here and it's a commuter town for Cardiff.

I'd assume all houses have a 60A fuse, which means we could have a small problem if, as Boris wants, half of the cars here are switched to EV by 2030.

[Order66]

Landcrab_Six said:

I've just done the survey for my charger install.

I have a 60A main fuse. This is a 20 year old 'new build' development. There are many company car drivers here and it's a commuter town for Cardiff.

I'd assume all houses have a 60A fuse, which means we could have a small problem if, as Boris wants, half of the cars here are switched to EV by 2030.

Most houses have a 80A or 100A main fuse. My house is 80yr old and has 100A. Phone your DNO and ask for an upgrade - many are doing it free if you are asking due to an EV chargepoint install.

[anonymous-user]

Order66 said:

Most houses have a 80A or 100A main fuse. My house is 80yr old and has 100A. Phone your DNO and ask for an upgrade - many are doing it free if you are asking due to an EV chargepoint install.

NewMotion will take care of that, I believe.

It just makes me question why, despite the many claims I see on EV discussions, we are on 60A fuses. I have to assume it's because the local substation wouldn't have coped with all houses rated for 80 or 100A.

[Willow1212]

Landcrab_Six said:

I've just done the survey for my charger install.

I have a 60A main fuse. This is a 20 year old 'new build' development. There are many company car drivers here and it's a commuter town for Cardiff.

I'd assume all houses have a 60A fuse, which means we could have a small problem if, as Boris wants, half of the cars here are switched to EV by 2030.

I have a 60a main fuse as well. When Pod-Point installed my charger they had to restrict it to half power (3.5kW) as a result. It has been absolutely fine for two years and still only takes a couple of hours to replenish my commute at night. I’ve never wished it was faster. When I do get round to getting the fuse upgraded (which the network operator will do FOC) I can call up Pod-Point and they will crank up the charger to full power over the WiFi connection.

[NMNeil]

robinessex said:

What ICE vehicles will be almost impossible to replace with electric power. I'm thinking of military, farming and construction.

I'm sure the military will be exempt, as will farming, but they will be loaded with even more emission control devices.

[NMNeil]

RegMolehusband said:

I doubt very much that we will ever see a battery powered 40 tonne truck grinding up Shap on the M6 or over the M62 Manchester to Leeds. They might have a reasonable range cruising at 50mph on the flat but once they are asked to apply maximum tractive effort to the road surface for 20 minutes at a time I bet that range is obliterated.

Edited by RegMolehusband on Saturday 5th December 16:37

Then that would be a good incentive to start using the canals between Manchester and Leeds to move freight.

[TeaNoSugar]

Harrison Bergeron said:

40 quid per fill up. I thought electric cars were supposed to be cheaper than ICE cars?

Not at £0.24/kWh, Unless I’m totally wrong you’re way off.

The biggest battery packs are about 100kW, so £24 to take the biggest batteries from totally flat to full (350 mile range?)

Fairly average BEV (Leaf, e-Niro, Kona etc.) have 64kWh battery, so £14 to fill from 0-100%, although in reality I guess you’d be going from around 5-10% up to 80%-90% (as they get slower to top up I think?). In that case you’re typical user would be spending about £10.

On the other hand, getting caught low on charge and having to use one of the Ionity chargers...could be expensive!

[skyrover]

Max_Torque said:

And yet, i'm going to suggest that battery powered handtools now dominate in most industries, simply because they are super convient and are able to provide enough power for most tasks. Yes, if you are actually dropping giant redwoods all day long by hand then you'll not find a battery chainsaw to do that, but most felling is machine handled these days, and the chainsaw is really just for the odd tidying up or trimming job. Every builder and electrician i uses these days is increasingly battery powered!

Not that long ago if you wanted to drill holes you needed a 240v mains drill, today, there are a large number of affordable, powerful and effective battery drills that do the job. With a coople of batteries, they can do it pretty much continuously too (one (or more) batteries on charge, one being used)

I worked in the industry. I am very familiar with battery chainsaws and have used them regularly. They are only appropriate where noise is an issue and are both underpowered and also have short duty cycles. Batteries are simply not up to the job.

And no, machines do not fell trees in urban/semi urban areas

[techguyone]

NMNeil said:

RegMolehusband said:

I doubt very much that we will ever see a battery powered 40 tonne truck grinding up Shap on the M6 or over the M62 Manchester to Leeds. They might have a reasonable range cruising at 50mph on the flat but once they are asked to apply maximum tractive effort to the road surface for 20 minutes at a time I bet that range is obliterated.

Edited by RegMolehusband on Saturday 5th December 16:37

Then that would be a good incentive to start using the canals between Manchester and Leeds to move freight.

Bet there's a good argument for the short duty cycle type of truck though, like tesco home deliveries and localised deliveries, longer range stuff could just make use of more regional hubs and the trailer could be swapped for a fresh tractor or similar, all these things are possible, because they are not in use now, won't mean that they won't be in the short-mid term future.

[MG CHRIS]

skyrover said:

robinessex said:

What ICE vehicles will be almost impossible to replace with electric power. I'm thinking of military, farming and construction.

Don't forget small engine equipment such as chainsaws, hedge trimmers, lawnmowers, wood chippers, stump grinders etc

The battery powered stuff is just not good enough for sustained commercial use.

Edited by skyrover on Saturday 5th December 11:04

I know its not hugely relevant but if you look into a workshop 5-10 years ago everything would be run of air, now the only thing you use air is for pumping tyres up. You have whole range of battery powered tools the milwaukiie range is massive even with inch gun with over 2000nm of torque. That was unthinkable a few years ago, My half inch gun will last all week on a charge. I can well imagine enough change for most daily object to go battery powered in the next 5 years.

[MG CHRIS]

techguyone said:

NMNeil said:

RegMolehusband said:

I doubt very much that we will ever see a battery powered 40 tonne truck grinding up Shap on the M6 or over the M62 Manchester to Leeds. They might have a reasonable range cruising at 50mph on the flat but once they are asked to apply maximum tractive effort to the road surface for 20 minutes at a time I bet that range is obliterated.

Edited by RegMolehusband on Saturday 5th December 16:37

Then that would be a good incentive to start using the canals between Manchester and Leeds to move freight.

Bet there's a good argument for the short duty cycle type of truck though, like tesco home deliveries and localised deliveries, longer range stuff could just make use of more regional hubs and the trailer could be swapped for a fresh tractor or similar, all these things are possible, because they are not in use now, won't mean that they won't be in the short-mid term future.

British gas are changing over their fleet of vans for the techs too the electric vivaro real world range from test is around 100-125 miles which will is plenty for the techs too use. My mate is due his early next year. Then you have the new phev transit which uses the 1.0 eco boost engine as a generator too charge the batteries. They can run 30 miles on pure battery power then the engine cuts in. Designed more for longer journey types.

[rscott]

MG CHRIS said:

techguyone said:

NMNeil said:

RegMolehusband said:

I doubt very much that we will ever see a battery powered 40 tonne truck grinding up Shap on the M6 or over the M62 Manchester to Leeds. They might have a reasonable range cruising at 50mph on the flat but once they are asked to apply maximum tractive effort to the road surface for 20 minutes at a time I bet that range is obliterated.

Edited by RegMolehusband on Saturday 5th December 16:37

Then that would be a good incentive to start using the canals between Manchester and Leeds to move freight.

Bet there's a good argument for the short duty cycle type of truck though, like tesco home deliveries and localised deliveries, longer range stuff could just make use of more regional hubs and the trailer could be swapped for a fresh tractor or similar, all these things are possible, because they are not in use now, won't mean that they won't be in the short-mid term future.

British gas are changing over their fleet of vans for the techs too the electric vivaro real world range from test is around 100-125 miles which will is plenty for the techs too use. My mate is due his early next year. Then you have the new phev transit which uses the 1.0 eco boost engine as a generator too charge the batteries. They can run 30 miles on pure battery power then the engine cuts in. Designed more for longer journey types.

Sky getting 151 Transit PHEV for their engineers shortly - https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/feu/gb/en...