Referenda are best way to make important decisions usually
Discussion
grumbledoak said:
I think we should have more of them. Simple "Yes" or "No" policy choices. I believe Switzerland does it to some extent.
The idea that the talking heads on the TV know any more or better than the layman is largely a lie. As we saw with so many of the polls recently.
Yeah...The idea that the talking heads on the TV know any more or better than the layman is largely a lie. As we saw with so many of the polls recently.
We've all had enough of experts
We've all met 'the general public'.
We've read their opinions and comments on social media, we've worked in the same office as them, we've overheard their opinions in pubs, we've heard them discussing current affairs whilst in the supermarket queue, we've watched their interview in the street on the news.
Would I trust them to fully understand and consider the complex issues and potential consequences of a referendum question?
Absolutely not.
We've read their opinions and comments on social media, we've worked in the same office as them, we've overheard their opinions in pubs, we've heard them discussing current affairs whilst in the supermarket queue, we've watched their interview in the street on the news.
Would I trust them to fully understand and consider the complex issues and potential consequences of a referendum question?
Absolutely not.
I think a topic to consider going forwards is would we trust a computer to make decisions for us, more than say a career politician.
This is a serious area of discussion I was having with a University lecturer recently, as AI is slowly replacing the need for bad human decision making, starting with low level human tasks, driving etc...
This is a serious area of discussion I was having with a University lecturer recently, as AI is slowly replacing the need for bad human decision making, starting with low level human tasks, driving etc...
KrissKross said:
I think a topic to consider going forwards is would we trust a computer to make decisions for us, more than say a career politician.
This is a serious area of discussion I was having with a University lecturer recently, as AI is slowly replacing the need for bad human decision making, starting with low level human tasks, driving etc...
Now that is an interesting question, it would be interesting to run that alongside actual human decision making , a kind of shadow parliament just to see how different the results would be. This is a serious area of discussion I was having with a University lecturer recently, as AI is slowly replacing the need for bad human decision making, starting with low level human tasks, driving etc...
citizensm1th said:
Now that is an interesting question, it would be interesting to run that alongside actual human decision making , a kind of shadow parliament just to see how different the results would be.
I agree and we was also considering the possibility of setting up a "vote by topic" website poll to see what people truly want to see democratically, also in a similar way to run alongside what the politicians are putting in place compared to what the voters truly want.powerstroke said:
One on Hs2 would be nice !! question do we need a pointless vanity project ??
or should we improve rail/tram systems in our major cities , and spend the change on road upgrades and 1st world broadband instead...
HS2 is as much about developing new infrastructure as it is about increasing capacity on other lines. It will contribute to your first point regardless. or should we improve rail/tram systems in our major cities , and spend the change on road upgrades and 1st world broadband instead...
rs1952 said:
grumbledoak said:
I think we should have more of them. Simple "Yes" or "No" policy choices. I believe Switzerland does it to some extent.
The idea that the talking heads on the TV know any more or better than the layman is largely a lie. As we saw with so many of the polls recently.
Yeah...The idea that the talking heads on the TV know any more or better than the layman is largely a lie. As we saw with so many of the polls recently.
We've all had enough of experts
Presumably they’d vote to pay no tax, make everything free allow people to do wtf they want etc.
Referendum are great but for big changes you should require more than 50% wanting change imo.
Look at the EU referendum, a narrow mandate to leaving the EU isn’t ideal by a long way and I say that as a leave voter before the usual fools start banging on about not getting the result I want.
If you were a minority group, smokers, handicapped, religious people, gingers etc, referendums might lead to your lot becoming pretty unpleasant,
El stovey said:
Referendum are great but for big changes you should require more than 50% wanting change imo.
Referenda tend to be couched in binary terms, so the winner will always be more than 50% of the vote; unless you mean more than 50% of those eligible to vote, in which case I disagree, if you choose to abstain then your "vote" can have no value.LittleBigPlanet said:
powerstroke said:
One on Hs2 would be nice !! question do we need a pointless vanity project ??
or should we improve rail/tram systems in our major cities , and spend the change on road upgrades and 1st world broadband instead...
HS2 is as much about developing new infrastructure as it is about increasing capacity on other lines. It will contribute to your first point regardless. or should we improve rail/tram systems in our major cities , and spend the change on road upgrades and 1st world broadband instead...
k it why not !!!Edited by powerstroke on Sunday 20th August 19:07
LittleBigPlanet said:
powerstroke said:
One on Hs2 would be nice !! question do we need a pointless vanity project ??
or should we improve rail/tram systems in our major cities , and spend the change on road upgrades and 1st world broadband instead...
HS2 is as much about developing new infrastructure as it is about increasing capacity on other lines. It will contribute to your first point regardless. or should we improve rail/tram systems in our major cities , and spend the change on road upgrades and 1st world broadband instead...
deadslow said:
referenda are the best way to make important decisions if your politicians are liars and too scared to run on their convictions. Then, when they lose the referendum, the scum just run away.
Common purpose art grads. Wouldn't trust them to pick broken biscuits off a conveyor belt. KrissKross said:
citizensm1th said:
Now that is an interesting question, it would be interesting to run that alongside actual human decision making , a kind of shadow parliament just to see how different the results would be.
I agree and we was also considering the possibility of setting up a "vote by topic" website poll to see what people truly want to see democratically, also in a similar way to run alongside what the politicians are putting in place compared to what the voters truly want.seriously though it would be fascinating to see how adaptive learning AI would deal with subjects with out human baggage.
I am not sure the majority of humans would like the resulting choices
Lord Marylebone said:
We've all met 'the general public'.
We've read their opinions and comments on social media, we've worked in the same office as them, we've overheard their opinions in pubs, we've heard them discussing current affairs whilst in the supermarket queue, we've watched their interview in the street on the news.
Would I trust them to fully understand and consider the complex issues and potential consequences of a referendum question?
Absolutely not.
We've read their opinions and comments on social media, we've worked in the same office as them, we've overheard their opinions in pubs, we've heard them discussing current affairs whilst in the supermarket queue, we've watched their interview in the street on the news.
Would I trust them to fully understand and consider the complex issues and potential consequences of a referendum question?
Absolutely not.
No but they can swing a bat just as hard as everyone else and untimely if the so call educated elites continue to ignore them and think they know best. Even after the people can see with their own eyes what messes they get us into. Untimely the bats will eventually come out.
Einion Yrth said:
El stovey said:
Referendum are great but for big changes you should require more than 50% wanting change imo.
Referenda tend to be couched in binary terms, so the winner will always be more than 50% of the vote; unless you mean more than 50% of those eligible to vote, in which case I disagree, if you choose to abstain then your "vote" can have no value.citizensm1th said:
KrissKross said:
citizensm1th said:
Now that is an interesting question, it would be interesting to run that alongside actual human decision making , a kind of shadow parliament just to see how different the results would be.
I agree and we was also considering the possibility of setting up a "vote by topic" website poll to see what people truly want to see democratically, also in a similar way to run alongside what the politicians are putting in place compared to what the voters truly want.seriously though it would be fascinating to see how adaptive learning AI would deal with subjects with out human baggage.
I am not sure the majority of humans would like the resulting choices
What I can guarantee is that a solution better than our current political system will come round quickly and people will adapt.
However due to the nature of bureaucrats they will fight the process with all forms of current law and power. The potential to put millions of people in "non-jobs" out of work is very real but true democracy might prevail, who knows?
El stovey said:
No I mean a supermajority, many countries have required supermajorities of up to 70% to push through major constitutional change. I think it’s required to have an effective mandate when important stuff like leaving the EU is being debated.
I struggle to see the argument for leaving any majority stick in an undesirable position just because that's the current position.Even moreso when the situation either arises from the vote of a different generation on a different issue and where there was no supermajority required to enter the situation.
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