Referenda are best way to make important decisions usually

[oyster]

KrissKross said:

Lord Marylebone said:

For what it's worth, my opinion is that the poll tax is a fairly good idea, and certainly fairer than what we have now. I don't see why why myself and my partner, living on our own in a larger property, should pay substantially more council tax than a family of 5 who are clearly using more local resources yet living in a much cheaper tax-band property.

Agreed.

How do you know they're using less services?

Perhaps they use local roads less than you?
Perhaps they have less fire/police call outs than you?


Or are you making the usual council tax observation that they use more bin facilities than you? You know, the part of council expenditure that accounts for 0.0000000000000000000000000000001%* of council tax?

• slightly exaggerated to make my point!

[alock]

Efbe said:

Without being arrogant; I am affluent, intelligent and knowledgeable. I know this, yet I am also humble enough to know that I cannot make the correct decision for a country.
50% of people are more stupid than the average. 50% are less well read than the average. I want a decision made by people who are more intelligent and better informed than the majority.

If anyone thinks Diane Abbott is more intelligent than they are, then I agree that those people should not be voting in referendums.

[otolith]

oyster said:

KrissKross said:

Lord Marylebone said:

For what it's worth, my opinion is that the poll tax is a fairly good idea, and certainly fairer than what we have now. I don't see why why myself and my partner, living on our own in a larger property, should pay substantially more council tax than a family of 5 who are clearly using more local resources yet living in a much cheaper tax-band property.

Agreed.

How do you know they're using less services?

Perhaps they use local roads less than you?
Perhaps they have less fire/police call outs than you?


Or are you making the usual council tax observation that they use more bin facilities than you? You know, the part of council expenditure that accounts for 0.0000000000000000000000000000001%* of council tax?

• slightly exaggerated to make my point!

It's a fair first approximation that, all other things being equal, a house with 2.5 times as many people will impose 2.5 times the burden on local services. Of course all things aren't equal, and a household with children, elderly people or poor people is likely to make larger demands than average.

[KrissKross]

oyster said:

How do you know they're using less services?

He said more not less.

Because more humans equals more things and stuff = maths + commons sense.

Are you Diane Abbott?

[Efbe]

otolith said:

oyster said:

KrissKross said:

Lord Marylebone said:

For what it's worth, my opinion is that the poll tax is a fairly good idea, and certainly fairer than what we have now. I don't see why why myself and my partner, living on our own in a larger property, should pay substantially more council tax than a family of 5 who are clearly using more local resources yet living in a much cheaper tax-band property.

Agreed.

How do you know they're using less services?

Perhaps they use local roads less than you?
Perhaps they have less fire/police call outs than you?


Or are you making the usual council tax observation that they use more bin facilities than you? You know, the part of council expenditure that accounts for 0.0000000000000000000000000000001%* of council tax?

• slightly exaggerated to make my point!

It's a fair first approximation that, all other things being equal, a house with 2.5 times as many people will impose 2.5 times the burden on local services. Of course all things aren't equal, and a household with children, elderly people or poor people is likely to make larger demands than average.

This is pure speculation though isn't it.
I would have thought poorer people have less waste than richer. again speculation though.
I woul also expect children/elderly to make less waste than adults.

[Murph7355]

Efbe said:

...
I woul also expect children/elderly to make less waste than adults.

Have you ever been around either?

[Efbe]

Murph7355 said:

Have you ever been around either?

:P children yes, we have three.

Whilst I do see that very young children make a lot of waste, after this point it goes dow dramatically.

Bin collection is only c7.5% of your tax bill though, caring for vulnerable adults is by far the highest at c31%.
From what I can see, the highest proportion of the vulnerable adults bill is suporting people who live on their own.

[otolith]

As you say, waste is a relatively small part of the bill - and certainly here, we all get the same size bin emptied at the same frequency. Adult social care (principally elderly people) is a major expenditure, as are education and child social care. The consumption of services will vary a lot between households, and being elderly, or disabled, or having a lot of kids in school, or having a lot of kids who are supported by social workers, or having a lot of kids who keep the local plod busy, will all increase that disparity.

The point is often made by the left that cuts in local services disproportionately affect the poor, so I don't think I'm saying anything controversial here.

[Efbe]

otolith said:

As you say, waste is a relatively small part of the bill - and certainly here, we all get the same size bin emptied at the same frequency. Adult social care (principally elderly people) is a major expenditure, as are education and child social care. The consumption of services will vary a lot between households, and being elderly, or disabled, or having a lot of kids in school, or having a lot of kids who are supported by social workers, or having a lot of kids who keep the local plod busy, will all increase that disparity.

The point is often made by the left that cuts in local services disproportionately affect the poor, so I don't think I'm saying anything controversial here.

that's a good point and to counter my own argument, wealhier families are more likely to use private schools, reducing large burden from local education (I think, they don't clim on it do they?)

[Murph7355]

Efbe said:

that's a good point and to counter my own argument, wealhier families are more likely to use private schools, reducing large burden from local education (I think, they don't clim on it do they?)

Nothing to claim (I'm assuming that's what you meant).

(I live in hope on your waste comment - kids are like car insurance...the point at which they start becoming cheaper always seems to be around the next corner ).

[Efbe]

Murph7355 said:

Efbe said:

that's a good point and to counter my own argument, wealhier families are more likely to use private schools, reducing large burden from local education (I think, they don't clim on it do they?)

Nothing to claim (I'm assuming that's what you meant).

(I live in hope on your waste comment - kids are like car insurance...the point at which they start becoming cheaper always seems to be around the next corner ).

I just googles "clim" to see if it was actually a word... erm, don't!

yes Claim is what I meant.

Anyhow going back to council tax, the really unfair thing is how poor a council we have... absolutely shocking, and sweet FA we can do about it.

[Monkeylegend]

Efbe said:

Without being arrogant; I am affluent, intelligent and knowledgeable. I know this.
.

PH never fails to deliver

What's the old saying, self praise is no praise

[Funkycoldribena]

Monkeylegend said:

Efbe said:

Without being arrogant; I am affluent, intelligent and knowledgeable. I know this.
.

PH never fails to deliver

What's the old saying, self praise is no praise

Maybe people who have too high an opinion of themselves shouldn't be allowed to vote in referendums.

[Monkeylegend]

Funkycoldribena said:

Monkeylegend said:

Efbe said:

Without being arrogant; I am affluent, intelligent and knowledgeable. I know this.
.

PH never fails to deliver

What's the old saying, self praise is no praise

Maybe people who have too high an opinion of themselves shouldn't be allowed to vote in referendums.

That would kick most of PH into the long grass

[768]

Efbe said:

Without being arrogant; I am affluent, intelligent and knowledgeable. I know this.

Must have you mistaken for someone else. I thought you were a teacher?

[Efbe]

768 said:

Must have you mistaken for someone else. I thought you were a teacher?

have done many things. was a teacher, but moved to finance. (consultancy prior to all that) life improved substantially!

Edited by Efbe on Monday 21st August 22:17