Cyclist likely to be convicted of manslaughter..

[essayer]

Cleared of manslaughter on a majority verdict

[Vaud]

essayer said:

Cleared of manslaughter on a majority verdict

And guilty of wonton and furious cycling.

[Einion Yrth]

Vaud said:

And guilty of wonton and furious cycling.

Dictionary said:

wonton
/wɒnˈtɒn/
noun
noun: wonton; plural noun: wontons; noun: won-ton; plural noun: won-tons

(in Chinese cooking) a small round dumpling or roll with a savoury filling, usually eaten boiled in soup.

Huh?

[SeeFive]

Vaud said:

And guilty of wonton and furious cycling.

He heh...



But seriously, he could still get two years inside with a bit of luck, but that is up to the discretion of the judge.

[BoRED S2upid]

essayer said:

Cleared of manslaughter on a majority verdict

Lucky.

[dandarez]

Cleared of manslaughter.
Guilty of lesser charge of wanton and furious cycling.

Not according to BBC! Their headline says he's guilty of her death!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-41028321?ns_m...

[The Surveyor]

It says Charlie Alliston, 20, was found guilty of causing bodily harm by "wanton or furious driving". Harm that led directly to her death, so how is that not manslaughter?

[rover 623gsi]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causing_bodily_har...

"Whosoever, having the charge of any carriage or vehicle, shall by wanton or furious driving or racing, or other wilful misconduct, or by wilful neglect, do or cause to be done any bodily harm to any person whatsoever, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and being convicted thereof shall be liable, at the discretion of the court, to be imprisoned for any term not exceeding two years ..."

[BoRED S2upid]

The Surveyor said:

It says Charlie Alliston, 20, was found guilty of causing bodily harm by "wanton or furious driving". Harm that led directly to her death, so how is that not manslaughter?

Indeed the definition of manslaughter is you killed someone but you didn't mean to. I've seen cases where a guy throws a punch recipient hits head when going down from said punch manslaughter. Something to do with her looking at her phone perhaps?

[Slaav]

The Surveyor said:

It says Charlie Alliston, 20, was found guilty of causing bodily harm by "wanton or furious driving". Harm that led directly to her death, so how is that not manslaughter?

May it simply be a legal issue? He couldn't be prosecuted for Death by Dangerous Driving so they went for a manslaughter charge. NG leads to the next offence that he was charged with? Furious cycling / GBH etc.

My guess is that there was a stand by charge of GBH style to ensure a more serious sentence. IANAL but think the prosecution had its hands tied legally and it was difficult to prove that the actions of the perp' were DIRECTLY attributable to her death? Not sure but the Judges statements will be interesting when they can be reported?? Assuming they can be?

[JulianHJ]

Hopefully he'll get the maximum sentence.

[boyse7en]

The Surveyor said:

It says Charlie Alliston, 20, was found guilty of causing bodily harm by "wanton or furious driving". Harm that led directly to her death, so how is that not manslaughter?

Have there been many car/pedestrian collisions where the driver has been convicted of manslaughter?

[4x4Tyke]

essayer said:

Cleared of manslaughter on a majority verdict

The verdict on manslaughter seems pretty perverse given the guilty verdict on the wanton charge.

Jury nullification, edging its bets, I think.


manslaughter, namely:

caused by the defendant's gross negligence; and
that caused by his unlawful or dangerous act.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/homicide_murder...

It seems to boil down to a difference between gross negligence and wilful negligence.

Surely wilful is worse that gross, since it is diliberate.

Edited by 4x4Tyke on Wednesday 23 August 16:43

[Vaud]

Einion Yrth said:

Vaud said:

And guilty of wonton and furious cycling.

Dictionary said:

wonton
/w?n?t?n/
noun
noun: wonton; plural noun: wontons; noun: won-ton; plural noun: won-tons

(in Chinese cooking) a small round dumpling or roll with a savoury filling, usually eaten boiled in soup.

Huh?

Hmmm. Delicious wanton wontons.

[The Surveyor]

boyse7en said:

The Surveyor said:

It says Charlie Alliston, 20, was found guilty of causing bodily harm by "wanton or furious driving". Harm that led directly to her death, so how is that not manslaughter?

Have there been many car/pedestrian collisions where the driver has been convicted of manslaughter?

He wasn't driving a car, irrelevant point....

[The Surveyor]

BoRED S2upid said:

The Surveyor said:

It says Charlie Alliston, 20, was found guilty of causing bodily harm by "wanton or furious driving". Harm that led directly to her death, so how is that not manslaughter?

Indeed the definition of manslaughter is you killed someone but you didn't mean to. I've seen cases where a guy throws a punch recipient hits head when going down from said punch manslaughter. Something to do with her looking at her phone perhaps?

That is exactly what I was thinking, he didn't set out to kill her, but his 'wanton and furious' actions show a similar suggestion of aggression as a push or punch that results in a manslaughter conviction.

It looks like a legal cop-out to me.

[PurpleTurtle]

Facing a potential maximum 2 year sentence. I hope he gets it, purely from the perspective (as pointed out by the judge when ordering reports) of a total and utter lack of any remorse.

[The Surveyor]

4x4Tyke said:

........
caused by the defendant's gross negligence; and
that caused by his unlawful or dangerous act.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/homicide_murder...

It seems to boil down to a difference between gross negligence and wilful negligence.

.......

A cyclist speeding (in relative terms) through a busy town with lots of pedestrians who then hits a pedestrian without tempering their speed would be negligent. To do the same without any proper brakes on a bike which is illegal for the road has to be 'gross negligence'... doesn't it?

[fido]

The Surveyor said:

That is exactly what I was thinking, he didn't set out to kill her, but his 'wanton and furious' actions show a similar suggestion of aggression as a push or punch that results in a manslaughter conviction.

It looks like a legal cop-out to me.

I think they were also being careful not to set a precedent of manslaughter (for future cycling-pedestrian accidents) but nevertheless a suitably harsh punishment for those who wilfully ride an illegal bike through pedestrians like a bell-end.

[glasgow mega snake]

The Surveyor said:

That is exactly what I was thinking, he didn't set out to kill her, but his 'wanton and furious' actions show a similar suggestion of aggression as a push or punch that results in a manslaughter conviction.

It looks like a legal cop-out to me.

it seems very hard to get a conviction for manslaughter in road traffic accidents though. certainly there are many examples of cyclists and pedestrians being killed by negligent drivers and the drivers only receive light sentences...