Cyclist likely to be convicted of manslaughter..

[untakenname]

Triumph Man said:

If, god forbid, one of us ran someone over in our car who happened to be on the phone, would you get out and berate them?

Surely a better analogy considering a pedestrian and cyclist both have around the same amount of protection would be if you're driving and crashed into another car where you had the right of way and the other driver was on the phone?

Working in Central London I've seen a few pedestrian vs bike accidents and most times the cyclist comes off worse.

There should be an alternate charge imo as trying people for manslaughter in driving cases and making the charge stick is quite hard, this case where a gangster killed a cyclist didn't succeed either http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-207254...

[ecsrobin]

untakenname said:

Surely a better analogy considering a pedestrian and cyclist both have around the same amount of protection would be if you're driving and crashed into another car where you had the right of way and the other driver was on the phone?

Yep that’s a lot better analogy.

[HerrSchnell]

I've commuted in and out of central Birmingham for a while so can see the point about people not hearing cyclists coming because they don't, especially when on the phone. Thing is that's totally reasonable as cyclists are silent in the city environment and as such it's down to the cyclist to make sure they can mitigate that risk.

My response was to go out and buy an old mountain bike with flat pedals, disc brakes and put a large bell and lights which get used every time I'm riding. It makes life a lot easier when people can see / hear you coming, being able to stop more effectively is incredibly useful and the ability to jettison the bike to the ground without having to twist out of cleats has helped me avoid ploughing at least four people down this year alone.

How this cocksprocket thought he could get away with riding through a London lunch hour flat out on a track bike is absolutely beyond me and his behaviour after the collision he caused is almost unbelievably disgusting even after taking the staggering levels of narcissism so prevailant among his peers into account.

Unfortunately though he is far from unique and I see poor form from that particular demographic of cyclists on a depressingly regular basis, when questioned on it the standard respones is condescending aggression so I've now given up pointing out to them why aping Line of Sight is a bad idea.

A lenghty custodial is entirely appropriate if for no other reason pour encourager les autres.

[SantaBarbara]

There should be a registration system for Cyclists, and they should have a number visible on their vests

[ecsrobin]

SantaBarbara said:

There should be a registration system for Cyclists, and they should have a number visible on their vests

And what would that achieve in this instance? Could say for the same for joggers would be easy then to track one down......

[boyse7en]

SantaBarbara said:

There should be a registration system for Cyclists, and they should have a number visible on their vests

Not many people wear vests these days, and only in winter, so I can't see that being very effective.

[saaby93]

ecsrobin said:

SantaBarbara said:

There should be a registration system for Cyclists, and they should have a number visible on their vests

And what would that achieve in this instance? Could say for the same for joggers would be easy then to track one down......

And only let pedestrians out with numbers too?
And insurance, you need basic third party to use the streets by whatever means
Someone help me get this thing back in its cage

[Lotobear]

I'm a very keen cyclist myself, road and MTB, but have noted, as a driver, that a real militancy appears to have developed in cyclists over the last 10 or so years especially the roadie brigade.

There is very often a stubborn refusal not to tuck in when you approach groups of them from behind in a car and an 'own the road' sort of attitude which often borders on the aggressive. I know the arguments for this sort of riding but sometimes it comes over as pure bloody mindedness and only winds up other road users.

Perhaps I'm old fashioned (well I am over 50) but when I'm out with a group we always pull into single file when approached by cars - they invariably appreciate this and give us a wide berth and often a friendly wave.

This guy is a total prick and deserves all that comes to him. I'm afraid, IMHO, he seems to typify the arrogant attitude that appears to have come to prevail in many cyclists these days.

(not a DM reader by the way)

[Vocal Minority]

Triumph Man said:

ecsrobin said:

Triumph Man said:

If, god forbid, one of us ran someone over in our car who happened to be on the phone, would you get out and berate them? You'd probably be beside yourself. It wouldn't necessarily be entirely your fault, but you'd still feel terrible. You certainly wouldn't later on show absolutely no remorse like this little streak of piss. I think that's the main issue here, that he just doesn't seem to comprehend what he's done, and who he has affected.

But if you were on a bike, someone walks in front of you, you crash probably injuring yourself to some degree what is the first thing you’re likely to do? Remembering that you may not know their full injuries yet?

After the initial reaction has worn off and the situation has sunk in then of course most people would feel remorse, guilt and so on.

However everyone is wired different, I’d want to know if this is normal behaviour for him or if this is out of character since the accident. What’s to say his way of coping with this tragic incident is to try and point blame away from himself.

However I would add that it’s far more likely he’s just a knob!

Indeed, there would be some initial shock and you might be a bit "shouty". I'm going with the fact he's a knob! Nobody can keep up the charade of "it's all their fault I'm blameless" for that long, especially when you learn that somebody has died.

I found his comments on how broken his bike was particularly offensive and callous

[anonymous-user]

HerrSchnell said:

I've commuted in and out of central Birmingham for a while so can see the point about people not hearing cyclists coming because they don't, especially when on the phone. Thing is that's totally reasonable as cyclists are silent in the city environment and as such it's down to the cyclist to make sure they can mitigate that risk.

My response was to go out and buy an old mountain bike with flat pedals, disc brakes and put a large bell and lights which get used every time I'm riding. It makes life a lot easier when people can see / hear you coming, being able to stop more effectively is incredibly useful and the ability to jettison the bike to the ground without having to twist out of cleats has helped me avoid ploughing at least four people down this year alone.

How this cocksprocket thought he could get away with riding through a London lunch hour flat out on a track bike is absolutely beyond me and his behaviour after the collision he caused is almost unbelievably disgusting even after taking the staggering levels of narcissism so prevalent among his peers into account.

Unfortunately though he is far from unique and I see poor form from that particular demographic of cyclists on a depressingly regular basis, when questioned on it the standard responses is condescending aggression so I've now given up pointing out to them why aping Line of Sight is a bad idea.

A lenghty custodial is entirely appropriate if for no other reason pour encourager les autres.

I agree with all your points, and I like to think I'm a balanced road user.

The bold bit is especially true on PH.

[Sa Calobra]

ecsrobin said:

His attitude is indeed poor and clearly has no remorse.

However I take the shouting at her twice as she’s just caused him to crash, I’d imagine that was quite painful to him (and even more so to her) and I think most PH members reaction would be similar. I doubt he thought he’s just killed a lady during that initial reaction.

But who is to blame? She chose to step into oncoming traffic and if reports are correct she was on her phone. Yes his bike had no front brake, but it doesn’t mean it’s the cause of the crash.

My bikes have disc brakes and the braking distances for me are far less than a v brake or u brake. And that’s only if they are serviced. There is no MOT for bikes or a standard of braking distances required for a bike. So he could have had a brake that was ineffective fitted and the outcome would be the same, would he then still be in court?

She was on her phone? How do you know? I commuted by bike into central London for 7yrs and you adjust your speed massively around pavements and pedestrians as you near the centre as it's a mass of people rushing about. The fixie craze is daft as it's almost a badge of honor to some to nail it everywhere on a fixie. They are great but are the opposite of controllable if you need to do an emergency stop or swerve IMO.

[Otispunkmeyer]

OpulentBob said:

HerrSchnell said:

I've commuted in and out of central Birmingham for a while so can see the point about people not hearing cyclists coming because they don't, especially when on the phone. Thing is that's totally reasonable as cyclists are silent in the city environment and as such it's down to the cyclist to make sure they can mitigate that risk.

My response was to go out and buy an old mountain bike with flat pedals, disc brakes and put a large bell and lights which get used every time I'm riding. It makes life a lot easier when people can see / hear you coming, being able to stop more effectively is incredibly useful and the ability to jettison the bike to the ground without having to twist out of cleats has helped me avoid ploughing at least four people down this year alone.

How this cocksprocket thought he could get away with riding through a London lunch hour flat out on a track bike is absolutely beyond me and his behaviour after the collision he caused is almost unbelievably disgusting even after taking the staggering levels of narcissism so prevalent among his peers into account.

Unfortunately though he is far from unique and I see poor form from that particular demographic of cyclists on a depressingly regular basis, when questioned on it the standard responses is condescending aggression so I've now given up pointing out to them why aping Line of Sight is a bad idea.

A lenghty custodial is entirely appropriate if for no other reason pour encourager les autres.

I agree with all your points, and I like to think I'm a balanced road user.

The bold bit is especially true on PH.

City bikes should be like the ones you find in Amsterdam. They're really comfy to ride and the upright posture is more relaxing and it means you have your head up all the time. Plus, you can't get up to silly speeds unless you're really insane and everyone can hear you coming because they clatter along like wheelie bin full of pots and pans.

[ecsrobin]

Sa Calobra said:

She was on her phone? How do you know? I commuted by bike into central London for 7yrs and you adjust your speed massively around pavements and pedestrians as you near the centre as it's a mass of people rushing about. The fixie craze is daft as it's almost a badge of honor to some to nail it everywhere on a fixie. They are great but are the opposite of controllable if you need to do an emergency stop or swerve IMO.

As that is what the lad is saying in all the news articles.

[55palfers]

From today's DM

"Alliston later told police he was riding an 'average speed' and claimed that she stepped back into his path as he tried to avoid a collision."

So he could see she was already in the road but it appears he made no attempt to slow down?

I don't think I fancy his chances of NG

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4791954/Cy...

[austinsmirk]

Otispunkmeyer said:

City bikes should be like the ones you find in Amsterdam. They're really comfy to ride and the upright posture is more relaxing and it means you have your head up all the time. Plus, you can't get up to silly speeds unless you're really insane and everyone can hear you coming because they clatter along like wheelie bin full of pots and pans.

IF the city is entirely flat like London/Amsterdam etc. I'm not a bad cyclist, but I doubt I could get one of those boris bikes around the hills here in Yorkshire, in my city !!


Cycling to work today: 2 car drivers nearly ended my days by deliberately ignoring me and pulling out on me. and yes, bright helmet, lights on, hi viz top on. however, I accept most motorists are bell ends.

this is why I cycle at a safe pace in traffic and have 2 working brakes on my bike. why on earth you'd have a single brake on a racing bike and use it in the city is anyone's guess. The other factor is, the hills are so great here, no single brake would viably stop you either, belting downhill.


He's obviously bought a nice track bike and been using it on the road- its not really suited for that.

If he hadn't have hit that poor lady, chances are he'd have failed to stop when a car pulled out on him.

I hope they lock him up.

[numtumfutunch]

If I'm reading it properly and he was on a track bike then he needs to go down for 500 years as an example to all the other out of control hipsters

COI: longstanding cycle commuter

[budgie smuggler]

Crap riding, and stupid bike to be using in the city. He sounds like a jeb end as well.

However I really wish people would put their bloody phones in their pocket and concentrate on what they're doing when talking/driving/riding about.

[esxste]

His bike wasn't legal for use on the roads.

If it was a car that was not legal for use on the roads, we'd have the same reaction.

The safety standards are there for a reason, and if you wilfully ignore them and end up killing someone, then you're committing a crime.

[saaby93]

budgie smuggler said:

Crap riding, and stupid bike to be using in the city. He sounds like a jeb end as well.

However I really wish people would put their bloody phones in their pocket and concentrate on what they're doing when talking/driving/riding about.

or walking
Saw someone 'driving' a horse the other day while fully ensconced in the phone including waving arms

[Roofless Toothless]

I fall into the one in ten of the population that has impaired hearing. I don't own a mobile phone for that reason.

What do cyclists expect me to do when they shout at me?

I believe there is a current thread where drivers who are deaf are spoken of as if they should not be on the road. Are deaf pedestrians a hazard too? I'm going to have a boring old time of it indoors if that is so.

We should all drive or ride bikes with the consideration expected towards the ten percent of other people who may not be able to hear you coming quite so well as many assume.