Cyclist likely to be convicted of manslaughter..

[anonymous-user]

If the coppaz arrest another terror subject, NPE may go into wk fantasy overload.

[anonymous-user]

700BHP said:

Lance Catamaran said:

700BHP said:

Why at a young offenders institution?

Generally won't get sent to an "adult" prison until you're 21/22

How bizarre.

The clue is in the Y bit of YOI.

[anonymous-user]

BTW, for those who think that mega tough prisons are deterrents to crime, have a look at the USA. Very tough prisons, high rate of re-offending. Go, as they say, figure.

[anonymous-user]

This is PH, Man! ORL SYCLISTS R S I mean, they are worse than Nazis!* Worse than Muslims even. Sheesh, everyone knows that.




* No offence intended to the many splendid and upright NPE'ers who are Nazis or have Nazi friends.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 18th September 14:16

[anonymous-user]

NPE darling A Hitler is apparently planning a comeback with populist support, but he says "Zis time, no more Mr Nice Guy."

[anonymous-user]

Stickyfinger said:

Breadvan72 said:

Could you let us know your direct first hand experience of what it is like in a prison or YOI, or are you perhaps purveying a glib tabloid idea of what those places are like? Hint: If you ever went to prison or YOI, I don't think you'd like it.

Are you seriously suggesting that this offender should be subject to daily rape? Almost every time I come in here I wonder if many of the posters live in a sort of "Saudi Arabia but worse" Hell Hole, but I gather that most of them live in the UK (but dearly want the UK to be a savage Hell Hole).

literal life or reassess your understanding of English, take a pick (one will allow you to avoid asking really dozy questions).

I have run that through the Planet Zog translation machine several times, but, nope, the machine's flummoxed.

[anonymous-user]

Arnie is planning to star in a musician biopic. He says "I'll be Bach".

[anonymous-user]

Alliston is a vile tosser, but, having got that bit out of the way, there is an arguable case that cyclists who kill attract more public ire and disproportionate legal fury compared to drivers who kill. This piece makes the case in a reasonably measured way -


https://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/2009/11/cycl...

[anonymous-user]

Bit early in the afternoon for so much butthurt, doncha think?

On Planet Earth, I would call 20 and 21 year olds young people. So if such types offend, that makes them young offenders. The name of the gaff is not "Minors who are Offenders' Institution", or "Non adult Offenders Institution", or "Kidz Slammer R Us". If you have a beef with the policy, take it up with Parliament.

[anonymous-user]

I am a cyclist, if that matters

I think the punishment for is very much at the low end of things

Aggravating factors, specifically his behaviour immediately after the collision and right up to and including the court appearance, lead me to conclude his is a whole skin wasted

Not the sort that should be allowed to pollute the gene pool imo

[anonymous-user]

Parliament took the view, it appears, that people do not instantly become fully mature adults at 18, and in the developed world it seems that childhood lasts longer and longer for some people. YOIs have similar regimes to adult prisons, but are supposed to place more emphasis on education. In reality, YOIs are sometimes harsher than adult prisons as YOIs are not always well run, so those that wish for a bit of extra judicial scragging for the cyclist may just get their wish.

Edit: Clapham - FPWM. What about that Thompson and Venables, eh? Hanging too good for them, etc [continue for 97 pages].

[anonymous-user]

zarjaz1991 said:

I'm not sure if this sentence is really the right way to go.

The lad is a bit of an imbecile frankly, but he's basically just a kid and now they will completely destroy his life by dumping him in a Borstal for a while. I'm sure it works as revenge and retribution but I'm unsure what else it really achieves.

The really stupid thing is he only had to show some remorse, say he was sorry, and he probably would be a free man today!

[anonymous-user]

zarjaz1991 said:

garyhun said:

The really stupid thing is he only had to show some remorse, say he was sorry, and he probably would be a free man today!

That though is completely wrong.

I would hope our justice system is a bit beyond telling people "say sorry and it'll be ok".

He either deserves prison for his crimes, or he doesn't. Grovelling in front of a judge shouldn't have any bearing on it.

I think it's more a case of a lack of remorse indicating a lack of understanding, or acceptance, or doing anything wrong.

[anonymous-user]

700BHP said:

Breadvan72 said:

700BHP said:

Lance Catamaran said:

700BHP said:

Why at a young offenders institution?

Generally won't get sent to an "adult" prison until you're 21/22

How bizarre.

The clue is in the Y bit of YOI.

Considering all the things that you can do in the eyes of the law when you become an adult and turn 18, I don't see how you can, in the eyes of the law, be considered young at 20.

I also don't consider you worth interacting with further.

So I won't.

Bore someone else.

I thought it was strange too. Not sure why it elicited a snide response.

[anonymous-user]

darreni said:

irocfan said:

the fact is he killed someone - and then worse showed absolutely no remorse. The guy is a 24 carat . If through my actions I'd caused someone to be hurt I'd be devastated, if I'd killed someone I suspect I'd be inconsolable - he was victim blaming all the way. Loathsome creature. With that last being said I do hope that the YOI will educate as well as punish since, IMO, prison should do both.

With the exception of the last sentence, I agree completely.

Why do you think that prison should not educate? Are you not interested in the idea of persuading people who do bad stuff not to do bad stuff again? If you had a child and the child did something wrong, would you just make the child go to bed early, or take away his or her mobile phone, or whatever (this being NPE, I suppose that most here would favour hitting a naughty child, but NPE isn't the real world), and not try to educate the child about behaving better in future?

[anonymous-user]

I am sorry for your hurt NPE feelz, turbobloke. Through your tears of sadness, you were perhaps unable to see that the comment I was responding to was by darreni, who appears not to wish to have prisons educate people. Irocfan, sensibly, does want prisons to educate people. I agree with Irocfan. I wonder why darreni does not.

As for educating people who do bad stuff, do people who do good stuff go to prison? Is that how it works?

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 19th September 08:08

[anonymous-user]

Digga said:

It's not only about educating prisoners about their behaviour, but also giving them an opportunity to correct gaps in their academic education - which themselves might have been instrumental in their ending up in custody in the first place - and hopefully be better suited to life once released. YOIs in particular, have a very good potential to achieve this.

I agree, although in reality the resources available for education in YOIs and prisons are often a bit thin. General education might in some cases (not all) help to reduce re-offending. Of course, educated people commit crimes as well as uneducated ones, but the fact that people of low educational attainment tend to be heavily represented in the prison population may say something about the power of education to keep some but not all out of the slammer.

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 19th September 08:46

[anonymous-user]

turbobloke said:

Breadvan72 said:

I am sorry for your hurt NPE feelz, turbobloke.

No hurt feelz on my side after pointing out a rambling off-topic fail on your side.

Breadvan72 said:

As for educating people who do bad stuff, do people who do good stuff go to prison? Is that how it works?

It can happen; people who do good stuff get sent to prison when they add some bad stuff to the mix.

Then there are miscarriages of justice.

Above all, however, that wasn't the point. Obvious diversion is obvious.

So, you misread a post, get all upset because someone doesn't post according to your rules, and then accuse me of making a diversion . Hang on, I've guessed - you're turbobloke! I claim my five pounds.

Meanwhile, is educating people in prison a good idea or not? I hope that it might be safe to assume that amidst all the frightful miscarriages of justice at least one or two of people who go to prison did bad stuff. This cyclist, for example - he seems to be a bit bad.

[anonymous-user]

The Government are reviewing the law to analyse whether a comparable 'death by' law ought to apply to cyclists.

I struggle to see why not, other than cyclists are not obliged to undergo any kind of formal training or testing before cycling on the road. This leaves quite a disparity between the knowledge and skill levels of cyclists. For drivers, the standard driving test allows an objective standard to be defined, the notional competent and careful driver. An inexperienced driver can then be held to account in a similar way to an experienced one. This scenario doesn't exist (yet) for cyclists.

[anonymous-user]

Sylvaforever said:

This woman sadly did contribute to her own demise by not ceding priority as she should

I would respectfully suggest you read the summing up.

I think that you misunderstand how causation works. The incident was avoidable by the cyclist. The cyclist could and should have slowed down. He pressed on, telling for his path to be cleared. Yes, the pedestrian was careless, but that did not cause her death. The causes were (1) the way in which the cyclist rode (that apparently being influenced by his selfish attitude); and (2) the absence of a front brake (ditto).

A careful road user makes allowances for the mistakes made by others. Just as a good driver drives defensively, so should a good cyclist, especially in a built up area. Having the right of way is no excuse for whacking into somebody.

I still think, however, that undue attention is given to the few deaths caused by bad cycling and that arguably not enough is given to the many deaths caused by bad driving. Cars and lorries and buses are inherently more dangerous that bicycles, because the consequences of misuse of heavy and fast vehicles are greater than those for lighter and slower vehicles, but driver training is limited and there is no regular renewals training. Most people who operate dangerous machines have to re-validate their ability to do so at intervals, but because motoring is embedded in our culture we as motorists take minimal training and do one quite easy test just once (court ordered re-testing apart).

Driving is a bit like booze - culturally embedded and so allowed to get away with stuff that other drugs can't get away with. I write this as someone who likes driving and also booze (although not usually at the same time, as my cars are old and shaky and so they make my Martini spill, which is a bummer.)

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 21st September 09:57