Cyclist likely to be convicted of manslaughter..
Discussion
garyhun said:
The really stupid thing is he only had to show some remorse, say he was sorry, and he probably would be a free man today!
That though is completely wrong.I would hope our justice system is a bit beyond telling people "say sorry and it'll be ok".
He either deserves prison for his crimes, or he doesn't. Grovelling in front of a judge shouldn't have any bearing on it.
zarjaz1991 said:
garyhun said:
The really stupid thing is he only had to show some remorse, say he was sorry, and he probably would be a free man today!
That though is completely wrong.I would hope our justice system is a bit beyond telling people "say sorry and it'll be ok".
He either deserves prison for his crimes, or he doesn't. Grovelling in front of a judge shouldn't have any bearing on it.
700BHP said:
Breadvan72 said:
700BHP said:
Lance Catamaran said:
700BHP said:
Why at a young offenders institution?
Generally won't get sent to an "adult" prison until you're 21/22I also don't consider you worth interacting with further.
So I won't.
Bore someone else.
zarjaz1991 said:
I'm not sure if this sentence is really the right way to go.
The lad is a bit of an imbecile frankly, but he's basically just a kid and now they will completely destroy his life by dumping him in a Borstal for a while. I'm sure it works as revenge and retribution but I'm unsure what else it really achieves.
Killing someone through your own imbecile actions needs to result in time served IMO. I'm not entirely convinced 18mths (fraction of it served?) is sufficient either.The lad is a bit of an imbecile frankly, but he's basically just a kid and now they will completely destroy his life by dumping him in a Borstal for a while. I'm sure it works as revenge and retribution but I'm unsure what else it really achieves.
Time to reflect, find some remorse, even the remote chance it may discourage others being knobheads. And yes, some degree of punishment as there were victims in this who will never have chances again. I'd happily see some (a lot of) crimes served in different ways, but anything that harms another individual warrants removal of liberty IMO.
https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/20...
Pretty damning. Sadly he won't serve the full 18months.
Pretty damning. Sadly he won't serve the full 18months.
zarjaz1991 said:
I'm not sure if this sentence is really the right way to go.
The lad is a bit of an imbecile frankly, but he's basically just a kid and now they will completely destroy his life by dumping him in a Borstal for a while. I'm sure it works as revenge and retribution but I'm unsure what else it really achieves.
....basically just a kid......The lad is a bit of an imbecile frankly, but he's basically just a kid and now they will completely destroy his life by dumping him in a Borstal for a while. I'm sure it works as revenge and retribution but I'm unsure what else it really achieves.
Who comes over as arrogant, stupid and without any remorse. A bike without brakes is not supposed to be on a public road, let alone at the sort of speed he was doing.
He's only going to be in a YOI watching TV for about 9 months and I doubt that he'll be any better when he comes out.
zarjaz1991 said:
I'm not sure if this sentence is really the right way to go.
The lad is a bit of an imbecile frankly, but he's basically just a kid and now they will completely destroy his life by dumping him in a Borstal for a while. I'm sure it works as revenge and retribution but I'm unsure what else it really achieves.
He's not 'a kid'. He's the same age that I was when moved to London and i commuted daily on a single speed or road bike into the centre. The lad is a bit of an imbecile frankly, but he's basically just a kid and now they will completely destroy his life by dumping him in a Borstal for a while. I'm sure it works as revenge and retribution but I'm unsure what else it really achieves.
I was very aware of my mortality and others being on a bicycle in London. It makes you understand how vunerable you. He's an arrogant adult. Whether he learns from it is immaterial compared to the suffering of the victim (i.e if she wasn't killed immediately). Reading into this he jumped up and had a go at her and then posted online later that she deserved it? so I can only guess she deteriorated over the following hours.
Whether by malice, intent or negligence you should pay if you take someone's life. I commuted by bike today through the centre of Manchester. I wouldn't dream of riding fast near pedestrians or in a built up environment or city partly for my own safety but also I know if you hit someone they'll hit their head hard on asphalt or jump out of the way into harm's way.
Edit- and I have front & back disc brakes on my road commuting bike.
There's the argument 'car drivers get off'. Do they all- Or is it a case that in some cases it is an accident?
Some cyclists (like some drivers) can be reckless and dangerous. Where this has been proven all should face the consequences of law.
Edited by Sa Calobra on Monday 18th September 18:11
Sa Calobra said:
https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/20...
Pretty damning. Sadly he won't serve the full 18months.
A pretty evisverating summary reallyPretty damning. Sadly he won't serve the full 18months.
Judge said:
It was your responsibility as a road-user to ensure you did not run into her. This must have been obvious to you, and you did indeed swerve and slow to between 10-14 mph as you went through the yellow-box at the junction of Old St and Charlotte Road. You shouted at her twice to (in your own words) ‘get out of the f
king way’. She reached almost the centre of the road but could not go further because of on-coming traffic. On your own account you did not try to slow any more but, having shouted at her twice, you took the view she should get out of your way. You said in evidence ‘I was entitled to go on’. That meant threading a path between her in the middle of the road and a parked lorry on your left.
king way’. She reached almost the centre of the road but could not go further because of on-coming traffic. On your own account you did not try to slow any more but, having shouted at her twice, you took the view she should get out of your way. You said in evidence ‘I was entitled to go on’. That meant threading a path between her in the middle of the road and a parked lorry on your left. zarjaz1991 said:
I'm not sure if this sentence is really the right way to go.
The lad is a bit of an imbecile frankly, but he's basically just a kid and now they will completely destroy his life by dumping him in a Borstal for a while. I'm sure it works as revenge and retribution but I'm unsure what else it really achieves.
Perhaps the lack of remorse is a key thing here and also the evidence that convicted him was pretty shocking. I also think in the same way as courts make examples of people, this was an opportunity to do just that. The lad is a bit of an imbecile frankly, but he's basically just a kid and now they will completely destroy his life by dumping him in a Borstal for a while. I'm sure it works as revenge and retribution but I'm unsure what else it really achieves.
This is PH and some will claim all cyclists etc., but the reality there are stupid drivers, pedestrians, and cyclist and perhaps a few of the stupid, who ride illegal bikes, in a dangerous way might just think again. It is always the few who get the majority a bad reputation.
I also think that sometimes when an incident such as this happens you can chalk it down to exactly that, an accident, and be reasonably confident that the circumstances won't re-occur and the person involved won't put themselves in the same position again as they've learned from their mistake - essentially jailing them won't do any good.
In this lads case I don't want to see his life wrecked but the combination of no contrition, the general way he acted, and a sense from what I read that he'd be out on the road again at some point given chance and custodial feels fair and appropriate.
In this lads case I don't want to see his life wrecked but the combination of no contrition, the general way he acted, and a sense from what I read that he'd be out on the road again at some point given chance and custodial feels fair and appropriate.
A sad case for all involved, but................
This could have gone the other way,
The woman steps into the road when she should not have, cyclist swerves to avoid her and hits a lamp post/kerb/parked car and hits his head a dies, and the woman walks off.
From what I have read, the woman walks out without looking, she was less than 20 meters from a crossing and was playing with her phone.
Yes, as road users we must be aware of what is going on around us, but people MUST take responseabilty for their actions as well.
This could have gone the other way,
The woman steps into the road when she should not have, cyclist swerves to avoid her and hits a lamp post/kerb/parked car and hits his head a dies, and the woman walks off.
From what I have read, the woman walks out without looking, she was less than 20 meters from a crossing and was playing with her phone.
Yes, as road users we must be aware of what is going on around us, but people MUST take responseabilty for their actions as well.
I personally dont like the implication from some I have spoken to that its "one of my lot", I have no connection with him other than I own and sometimes ride a bicycle.
I think the main thing is the guy is an arse and has behaved badly in relation to the accident, but also there seems to be almost a gleeful response from the anti cycling lobby, this ladies death is almost capital to be exploited to further the cause. You need to separate your dislike of cyclists and cycling when pondering this case, you could have a situation where someone steps out and the cyclist dies.
This could happen with any vehicle if you step out in front, people make mistakes, this has happened to me, a lady outside our local stepped back off the kerb as I think she was a bit drunk, I avoided her, but only just, would that have been my fault, I had working brakes but I only just managed to apply them once past her, well as well as road bikes work in the wet, I was well within the speed limit but still moving fairly quickly, 250 pounds of me and bike at 15 to 20 mph.
I think the main thing is the guy is an arse and has behaved badly in relation to the accident, but also there seems to be almost a gleeful response from the anti cycling lobby, this ladies death is almost capital to be exploited to further the cause. You need to separate your dislike of cyclists and cycling when pondering this case, you could have a situation where someone steps out and the cyclist dies.
This could happen with any vehicle if you step out in front, people make mistakes, this has happened to me, a lady outside our local stepped back off the kerb as I think she was a bit drunk, I avoided her, but only just, would that have been my fault, I had working brakes but I only just managed to apply them once past her, well as well as road bikes work in the wet, I was well within the speed limit but still moving fairly quickly, 250 pounds of me and bike at 15 to 20 mph.
rambo19 said:
A sad case for all involved, but................
This could have gone the other way,
The woman steps into the road when she should not have, cyclist swerves to avoid her and hits a lamp post/kerb/parked car and hits his head a dies, and the woman walks off.
From what I have read, the woman walks out without looking, she was less than 20 meters from a crossing and was playing with her phone.
Yes, as road users we must be aware of what is going on around us, but people MUST take responseabilty for their actions as well.
I think you need to read the judges summing up and news graphics. She was a good distance infront of him and he shouted get out of the fThis could have gone the other way,
The woman steps into the road when she should not have, cyclist swerves to avoid her and hits a lamp post/kerb/parked car and hits his head a dies, and the woman walks off.
From what I have read, the woman walks out without looking, she was less than 20 meters from a crossing and was playing with her phone.
Yes, as road users we must be aware of what is going on around us, but people MUST take responseabilty for their actions as well.
king way twice. That doesn't sit with what you describe.
Willy Nilly said:
What would have happened if yer man had an interface with an 8 wheel tipper and due to his lack of brakes went under it, would the driver have been prosecuted?
I would certainly hope so! zarjaz1991 said:
I'm not sure if this sentence is really the right way to go.
The lad is a bit of an imbecile frankly, but he's basically just a kid and now they will completely destroy his life by dumping him in a Borstal for a while. I'm sure it works as revenge and retribution but I'm unsure what else it really achieves.
the fact is he killed someone - and then worse showed absolutely no remorse. The guy is a 24 carat The lad is a bit of an imbecile frankly, but he's basically just a kid and now they will completely destroy his life by dumping him in a Borstal for a while. I'm sure it works as revenge and retribution but I'm unsure what else it really achieves.
. If through my actions I'd caused someone to be hurt I'd be devastated, if I'd killed someone I suspect I'd be inconsolable - he was victim blaming all the way. Loathsome creature. With that last being said I do hope that the YOI will educate as well as punish since, IMO, prison should do both. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff