PC censorship vs debate and free speech, worrying trends.
Discussion
Boosted LS1 said:
Would PH ban Nigel Farage from speaking openly if he was on here, most definately? I suspect they would which show's how freedom of speech has been lost. If thine eye offends thee then pluck it out. We should be able to speak about anything we like, openly and frankly.
What a frankly laughable proposition. Especially considering the amount of people supporting him who weren't banned.Colonial said:
Boosted LS1 said:
Would PH ban Nigel Farage from speaking openly if he was on here, most definately? I suspect they would which show's how freedom of speech has been lost. If thine eye offends thee then pluck it out. We should be able to speak about anything we like, openly and frankly.
What a frankly laughable proposition. Especially considering the amount of people supporting him who weren't banned.Sorry not read all the thread, probably already been said. (Sorry for a mixed up post, one thought leads to another)
I was just talking about this with an uncle today.
The power of the press and alleged political correctness have taken over society and it is definitely for the worse. Its all ruled by what makes money for the press. But it's all biased isn't it. Bombing in middle east, loads of press, war in Africa nothing. Christian white man against LGBT, all over the press, entire muslim faith against it, nothing. Donald Trump not immediately against white supremasists and they blast him yet at the same time we regularly see judges rule in favour of criminals who sue when they are hurt during burglaries. Its all a load of crap.
Right now a person needs to be pro left, pro LGBT, anti Christian, equality this equality that, no competition in school etc, pro...well I dont know what else, just don't offend anyone or say anything against anyone. Unless it's against old fashioned ways, in which case go for it, say what you like. Traditional marital values where you should work to save the marriage, nope tell them to divorce! Believe in the bible, no way you are a bigot, however compare any other religions and you cannot critisice.
And as for being offended. SO WHAT. Human rights, yes within reason but lets look after ourselves, not expect looking after by the government. If we aren't careful its going to be against human rights to be even put in jail for a crime, and then where do we stop. It will be against a ersons human rights if someone breaks in to your house and steals your TV, saying that it's his human right to have a TV and it's not his fault that he cant afford it!
The world is in a very bad place and you know what, while we continue to allow the press the control, it's all going to get worse
I was just talking about this with an uncle today.
The power of the press and alleged political correctness have taken over society and it is definitely for the worse. Its all ruled by what makes money for the press. But it's all biased isn't it. Bombing in middle east, loads of press, war in Africa nothing. Christian white man against LGBT, all over the press, entire muslim faith against it, nothing. Donald Trump not immediately against white supremasists and they blast him yet at the same time we regularly see judges rule in favour of criminals who sue when they are hurt during burglaries. Its all a load of crap.
Right now a person needs to be pro left, pro LGBT, anti Christian, equality this equality that, no competition in school etc, pro...well I dont know what else, just don't offend anyone or say anything against anyone. Unless it's against old fashioned ways, in which case go for it, say what you like. Traditional marital values where you should work to save the marriage, nope tell them to divorce! Believe in the bible, no way you are a bigot, however compare any other religions and you cannot critisice.
And as for being offended. SO WHAT. Human rights, yes within reason but lets look after ourselves, not expect looking after by the government. If we aren't careful its going to be against human rights to be even put in jail for a crime, and then where do we stop. It will be against a ersons human rights if someone breaks in to your house and steals your TV, saying that it's his human right to have a TV and it's not his fault that he cant afford it!
The world is in a very bad place and you know what, while we continue to allow the press the control, it's all going to get worse
finnie said:
Sorry not read all the thread, probably already been said. (Sorry for a mixed up post, one thought leads to another)
I was just talking about this with an uncle today.
The power of the press and alleged political correctness have taken over society and it is definitely for the worse. Its all ruled by what makes money for the press. But it's all biased isn't it. Bombing in middle east, loads of press, war in Africa nothing. Christian white man against LGBT, all over the press, entire muslim faith against it, nothing. Donald Trump not immediately against white supremasists and they blast him yet at the same time we regularly see judges rule in favour of criminals who sue when they are hurt during burglaries. Its all a load of crap.
Right now a person needs to be pro left, pro LGBT, anti Christian, equality this equality that, no competition in school etc, pro...well I dont know what else, just don't offend anyone or say anything against anyone. Unless it's against old fashioned ways, in which case go for it, say what you like. Traditional marital values where you should work to save the marriage, nope tell them to divorce! Believe in the bible, no way you are a bigot, however compare any other religions and you cannot critisice.
And as for being offended. SO WHAT. Human rights, yes within reason but lets look after ourselves, not expect looking after by the government. If we aren't careful its going to be against human rights to be even put in jail for a crime, and then where do we stop. It will be against a ersons human rights if someone breaks in to your house and steals your TV, saying that it's his human right to have a TV and it's not his fault that he cant afford it!
The world is in a very bad place and you know what, while we continue to allow the press the control, it's all going to get worse
Totally agree. Summed up by this...I was just talking about this with an uncle today.
The power of the press and alleged political correctness have taken over society and it is definitely for the worse. Its all ruled by what makes money for the press. But it's all biased isn't it. Bombing in middle east, loads of press, war in Africa nothing. Christian white man against LGBT, all over the press, entire muslim faith against it, nothing. Donald Trump not immediately against white supremasists and they blast him yet at the same time we regularly see judges rule in favour of criminals who sue when they are hurt during burglaries. Its all a load of crap.
Right now a person needs to be pro left, pro LGBT, anti Christian, equality this equality that, no competition in school etc, pro...well I dont know what else, just don't offend anyone or say anything against anyone. Unless it's against old fashioned ways, in which case go for it, say what you like. Traditional marital values where you should work to save the marriage, nope tell them to divorce! Believe in the bible, no way you are a bigot, however compare any other religions and you cannot critisice.
And as for being offended. SO WHAT. Human rights, yes within reason but lets look after ourselves, not expect looking after by the government. If we aren't careful its going to be against human rights to be even put in jail for a crime, and then where do we stop. It will be against a ersons human rights if someone breaks in to your house and steals your TV, saying that it's his human right to have a TV and it's not his fault that he cant afford it!
The world is in a very bad place and you know what, while we continue to allow the press the control, it's all going to get worse
https://onsizzle.com/i/i-dont-believe-that-women-h...
Boosted LS1 said:
Would PH ban Nigel Farage from speaking openly if he was on here, most definately? I suspect they would which show's how freedom of speech has been lost. If thine eye offends thee then pluck it out. We should be able to speak about anything we like, openly and frankly.
Ridiculous You are using an example which hasn't happened to try and prove something
You can speak about anything you like, go on as Ive said before the floor is yours, what is it you want to say?
Pesty said:
do you laugh, cry or just worry at that ?Boosted LS1 said:
Would PH ban Nigel Farage from speaking openly if he was on here, most definately? I suspect they would which show's how freedom of speech has been lost. If thine eye offends thee then pluck it out. We should be able to speak about anything we like, openly and frankly.
I don't know if they would or not but I don't think anything Nigel Farage says is comparable to some of the stuff I've read on here.Pesty said:
Welcome to America, land of the free.Arrested for being shouted at.
Words have power
That's the fundamental problem with totally free speech, of course that is also the best thing about free speech, hence the conundrum.
What is the effect on society when lies are allowed to become accepted fact because the perpetrators shout louder, where should the boundaries be drawn?
Do we ignore that terrorism is actively encouraged by some "preachers" and support their rights to free speech, do we accept that holocaust denial is a valid viewpoint?
Do we say "stick and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" or accept that "the pen is mightier than the sword"
I think words have power and hence there should be consequences both legal and moral to those who use them carelessly, I think over time society will find the right balance.
That's the fundamental problem with totally free speech, of course that is also the best thing about free speech, hence the conundrum.
What is the effect on society when lies are allowed to become accepted fact because the perpetrators shout louder, where should the boundaries be drawn?
Do we ignore that terrorism is actively encouraged by some "preachers" and support their rights to free speech, do we accept that holocaust denial is a valid viewpoint?
Do we say "stick and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" or accept that "the pen is mightier than the sword"
I think words have power and hence there should be consequences both legal and moral to those who use them carelessly, I think over time society will find the right balance.
finnie said:
Sorry not read all the thread, probably already been said. (Sorry for a mixed up post, one thought leads to another)
I was just talking about this with an uncle today.
The power of the press and alleged political correctness have taken over society and it is definitely for the worse. Its all ruled by what makes money for the press. But it's all biased isn't it. Bombing in middle east, loads of press, war in Africa nothing. Christian white man against LGBT, all over the press, entire muslim faith against it, nothing. Donald Trump not immediately against white supremasists and they blast him yet at the same time we regularly see judges rule in favour of criminals who sue when they are hurt during burglaries. Its all a load of crap.
Right now a person needs to be pro left, pro LGBT, anti Christian, equality this equality that, no competition in school etc, pro...well I dont know what else, just don't offend anyone or say anything against anyone. Unless it's against old fashioned ways, in which case go for it, say what you like. Traditional marital values where you should work to save the marriage, nope tell them to divorce! Believe in the bible, no way you are a bigot, however compare any other religions and you cannot critisice.
And as for being offended. SO WHAT. Human rights, yes within reason but lets look after ourselves, not expect looking after by the government. If we aren't careful its going to be against human rights to be even put in jail for a crime, and then where do we stop. It will be against a ersons human rights if someone breaks in to your house and steals your TV, saying that it's his human right to have a TV and it's not his fault that he cant afford it!
The world is in a very bad place and you know what, while we continue to allow the press the control, it's all going to get worse
The world has always been in a 'bad place' remember its not that long ago that milluons of people were gassed to death for just being jewish.I was just talking about this with an uncle today.
The power of the press and alleged political correctness have taken over society and it is definitely for the worse. Its all ruled by what makes money for the press. But it's all biased isn't it. Bombing in middle east, loads of press, war in Africa nothing. Christian white man against LGBT, all over the press, entire muslim faith against it, nothing. Donald Trump not immediately against white supremasists and they blast him yet at the same time we regularly see judges rule in favour of criminals who sue when they are hurt during burglaries. Its all a load of crap.
Right now a person needs to be pro left, pro LGBT, anti Christian, equality this equality that, no competition in school etc, pro...well I dont know what else, just don't offend anyone or say anything against anyone. Unless it's against old fashioned ways, in which case go for it, say what you like. Traditional marital values where you should work to save the marriage, nope tell them to divorce! Believe in the bible, no way you are a bigot, however compare any other religions and you cannot critisice.
And as for being offended. SO WHAT. Human rights, yes within reason but lets look after ourselves, not expect looking after by the government. If we aren't careful its going to be against human rights to be even put in jail for a crime, and then where do we stop. It will be against a ersons human rights if someone breaks in to your house and steals your TV, saying that it's his human right to have a TV and it's not his fault that he cant afford it!
The world is in a very bad place and you know what, while we continue to allow the press the control, it's all going to get worse
However things are no way as bad as you are saying you sound utterly paranoid
Not-The-Messiah said:
Worrying how a the free speech event in Boston is being portrayed within the media. After the Charlottesville problems they are using it to stop and control any protest they don't agree with.
Thousands out marching against a free speech event is madness.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40980175 the BBC video constantly saying far right these are the so called far right https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9X2ZRB9GCU
BBC article mentions several times they're right wing etc, never once in all the column inches identifies the speakers so one might judge for oneself. Thousands out marching against a free speech event is madness.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40980175 the BBC video constantly saying far right these are the so called far right https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9X2ZRB9GCU
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: That's the hypocrisy of part of the argument though IMO.
When it's them it's free speech and they shouldn't be oppressed which excuses it but when it's someone else it's hate speech and shouldn't be tolerated.
As always, those that shout loudest and play the offended card win out. The squeekiest wheel gets the oil.When it's them it's free speech and they shouldn't be oppressed which excuses it but when it's someone else it's hate speech and shouldn't be tolerated.
hairyben said:
BBC article mentions several times they're right wing etc, never once in all the column inches identifies the speakers so one might judge for oneself.
It's not that easy to find the list. I think this is the organiser talking about the cancellationhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn_guSpCA5E
So, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Dr. Gad Saad and Dr. Oren Amitay
Gad Saad, that famous Nazi, anti-Semite, white supremacist!
Cobnapint said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: That's the hypocrisy of part of the argument though IMO.
When it's them it's free speech and they shouldn't be oppressed which excuses it but when it's someone else it's hate speech and shouldn't be tolerated.
As always, those that shout loudest and play the offended card win out. The squeekiest wheel gets the oil.When it's them it's free speech and they shouldn't be oppressed which excuses it but when it's someone else it's hate speech and shouldn't be tolerated.
But if people want to be free to bleat on about "snackbar's" and "carpet riding paedo's" or whatever delightful words some previous posters have used all in the name of "free speech" and you have to be prepared to listen to plenty of stuff in return about khuffar's and infidels without batting an eyelid.
And of course that doesn't change the fact that if you're a guest in someone else's house you don't get to say whatever you want with impunity.
I had a very similar debate with some leftist at work about how I thoight violence could have been avoided at charlotavile had the right loonies been allowed to do their thing without being harangued by the loony left.
He said that any form necessary was acceptable to stop the rise of nazis. Whilst I don't condone the nazis I also don't condone the reg left method of using violence to shut people down they don't agree with. This article echos my debate with the guy at work
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/a...
He said that any form necessary was acceptable to stop the rise of nazis. Whilst I don't condone the nazis I also don't condone the reg left method of using violence to shut people down they don't agree with. This article echos my debate with the guy at work
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/a...
PorkRind said:
I had a very similar debate with some leftist at work about how I thoight violence could have been avoided at charlotavile had the right loonies been allowed to do their thing without being harangued by the loony left.
He said that any form necessary was acceptable to stop the rise of nazis. Whilst I don't condone the nazis I also don't condone the reg left method of using violence to shut people down they don't agree with. This article echos my debate with the guy at work
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/a...
But if you're advocating free speech why are the 'loony left' not allowed a voice but the 'loony right' are.He said that any form necessary was acceptable to stop the rise of nazis. Whilst I don't condone the nazis I also don't condone the reg left method of using violence to shut people down they don't agree with. This article echos my debate with the guy at work
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/a...
Goaty Bill 2 said:
I never would have pegged you for a Jacques Derrida style post modernist Derek. 
ETA
I just read your last post, being the one before this one.
Expanded, you makes some salient points. But that last sentence above, well...
The idea is that if there are many explanations of what happened at any historical fact, as indeed there are for any event unless pared to a simple statement of fact, then what is the point of history? ETA
I just read your last post, being the one before this one.
Expanded, you makes some salient points. But that last sentence above, well...
I love the British Civil Wars, but when at school, and for some time afterwards, I would have said English Civil Wars. Times change, including past times. Interpretation is always, but always, subjective. I've read books and comment from learned people who reckon that it was a reaction against totalitarianism, a Marxist revolution (yes, honest. Marxism in the middle of the 17thC), a religious reaction, a rising of the proletariat and . . you get the picture.
The odd thing is, even to me, is that I have an opinion on the matter. Yet I know full well that it is wrong.
The same problem goes for the current situation in the USA. There are various interpretations as to causes. There are suggestions it is a demonstration against Trump as much as anti racism. The papers tell one story, as do the TV reports, yet we see things somewhat differently on the video.
In the 70s and 80s when there was a high number of demonstrations, it was well known that police officers should not stand near a TV news camera as the demonstrators would always be at their worst there.
I was at various demos and incidents in my early years in the job and I know full well that the accepted description of what happened, this on the official histories as well as Wiki, is way, way wide of the mark.
Read Wiki on the NI 'troubles', or civil war as I think of it. Do you agree with their conclusions of the causes and effects, not to mention their other interpretations. Yet it is, for the time being at least, more or less an official history.
The reporting of current events is always slanted by the mores of the time and by the bias of the particular media. For history it is even worse.
The most remarkable thing is that despite the media seeming to outnumber the active participants in the incidents in the USA, we have no real idea of what is actually going on, its causes and the intent of the demonstrators.
People believe public enquiries. People believe World in Action. People believe Panorama. History is a matter of what source you trust. Your, and my, interpretation of what is going on in the USA is dependant on which source you/I believe.
Cecil Rhodes, Clive: these and similar event rich people are now pilloried yet when I was at (a very right politically) school they were classed as heroes.
If history changes, then as a settled interpretation it doesn't exist.
hairyben said:
BBC article mentions several times they're right wing etc, never once in all the column inches identifies the speakers so one might judge for oneself.
I think it was with the Bannon stories rather than this, but the BBC referred to what I think was Breitbart as an ultra-right wing website, on TV. It's not the first time I've heard them use that phrase though it seems a recent phenomenon.I don't think I ever remember them referring to anyone or anything as ultra-left.
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