Transgender schooling row

[Sa Calobra]

TooMany2cvs said:

Nigel and Sally Rowe, from the IoW, have taken their 6yo son out of his CoE school and are suing the school, because a boy in the class sometimes came to school in the girl's uniform. Their other son was withdrawn from the same school for the same reason last year.

They are claiming they are being discriminated against on religious grounds, because their Christian beliefs are being infringed.

Telegraph - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/10/parents...
Mail - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4869682/Ch...
Radio 4 interview - https://www.facebook.com/BBCRadio4/videos/10155663...

Thoughts...?

What is the point of school uniform rules. Can they mix and match between uniforms too?

If the boy dresses as a girl as he identifies as a girl and is known by a girl's name as he feels more comfortable I'm all for it. If it's because his parents let him/encourage him to explore feminity then I'm against it as it causes confusion in someone too young to have such life choices forced on them. It confuses. If it's the former though what's the issue? I fear it's the latter though I bet.

[otolith]

hyphen said:

JagLover said:

Pesty said:

Those parents are idiots

And also the parents of the other 6yo

That is too young to decide they want to be a different gender. Just let kids be and stop,forcing st on them.

This

Six is far too young for this nonsense.

Teen who began gender transition at 12 reveals WHY he changed his mind and wanted to go back to being a boy

Same case referenced above, to which I made this response;

otolith said:

And that is why, when children who it seems might be trans are treated by medical professionals (rather than being given oestrogen prescribed for their mum) they are subject to a great deal of psychological evaluation and are not given opposite sex hormones until they are 16. At most they will be given hormone blockers to delay puberty until they are old enough to really be sure.

God knows what damage his mum has done to him with her DIY hormonal treatment - she should be prosecuted, IMO.

The Daily Mail article includes the information that, like here, hormone treatment would never be medically sanctioned until he was 16.

This isn't a kid who has been judged by medical professionals to be trans and managed appropriately until old enough to be sure, his batst crazy mother thought it was appropriate to give him oestrogen tablets she obtained for herself when he was 12.

[Randy Winkman]

deltaevo16 said:

Randy Winkman said:

Exactly. I don't think kids should be left to do "what they want" but there has to be a rational explanation when they say "why not? or "what harm does it do? "

Especially when you tell them that You'll probably get the sh+t kicked out of you.
If anyone went to the school I attended wearing a dress, christ they would have been hammered. It was bad enough if you had ginger hair.

Does that mean we have to tolerate prejudice and bullying forever?

[Randy Winkman]

popeyewhite said:

Randy Winkman said:

Exactly. I don't think kids should be left to do "what they want" but there has to be a rational explanation when they say "why not? or "what harm does it do? "

"Why not?"
That would be because it's the school uniform. The school decides what it's pupils wear, not the parents.
"What harm does it do"
It goes against school uniform rules.
Y'know like speeding on an empty motorway at 100 doesn't harm anyone... .

But it is "the school uniform". And before you say "but it's only the school uniform for girls", what's the rationale for that? Other than "because it is!".

[TooMany2cvs]

Randy Winkman said:

But it is "the school uniform". And before you say "but it's only the school uniform for girls", what's the rationale for that? Other than "because it is!".

Umm, it's been illegal to do that for seven years, anyway.

And that's the whole point. The school would actually be breaking the law by saying "You can only wear this portion of the uniform list because you have a willy..."

[HappySilver]

Parents remove son from school due to a boy wearing a dress.

Same parents spend every Sunday listening to a man in a dress tell them that he has an invisible friend who thinks they should love everyone.

Bizarre...

[Randy Winkman]

TooMany2cvs said:

Randy Winkman said:

But it is "the school uniform". And before you say "but it's only the school uniform for girls", what's the rationale for that? Other than "because it is!".

Umm, it's been illegal to do that for seven years, anyway.

And that's the whole point. The school would actually be breaking the law by saying "You can only wear this portion of the uniform list because you have a willy..."

Thanks. In that case I'm not sure what the issue is.

[gadgetmac]

irocfan said:

esxste said:

Suicide rates and depression are very high amongst trans teens, and any parent should want to avoid that for their child if they can.

IIRC suicide rates and depression among Goths are very common too - does this mean we should be making special allowances here too?

What happens to kids that can do whatever they want in the name of 'freedom' who suddenly find out that they can't do this in the workplace?

Well the logical conclusion is that the workplace will have to change, just like the schools are having to.

[popeyewhite]

Randy Winkman said:

But it is "the school uniform". And before you say etc etc

I didn't.
I directly addressed one of your posts asking why pupils have to wear a specific uniform. In the case in question, they don't.

[irocfan]

gadgetmac said:

irocfan said:

esxste said:

Suicide rates and depression are very high amongst trans teens, and any parent should want to avoid that for their child if they can.

IIRC suicide rates and depression among Goths are very common too - does this mean we should be making special allowances here too?

What happens to kids that can do whatever they want in the name of 'freedom' who suddenly find out that they can't do this in the workplace?

Well the logical conclusion is that the workplace will have to change, just like the schools are having to.

my apologies - I should have been a little more plain. The 'this' I am referring to is the freedom to do what they like rather than just put on a skirt should the mood take them (and that is currently allowed)

[Sa Calobra]

This is the daily mail. Makes you wonder if they've been misquoted.

Wouldn't be the first time a rag has done this

[anonymous-user]

Randy Winkman said:

deltaevo16 said:

Randy Winkman said:

Exactly. I don't think kids should be left to do "what they want" but there has to be a rational explanation when they say "why not? or "what harm does it do? "

Especially when you tell them that You'll probably get the sh+t kicked out of you.
If anyone went to the school I attended wearing a dress, christ they would have been hammered. It was bad enough if you had ginger hair.

Does that mean we have to tolerate prejudice and bullying forever?

Prejudice you say? Tolerate?
So in the case of a school banning skirts so as not to offend, those girls who wish to wear skirts are immediately prejudiced against for being comfortable with their own identity, they are banned from being comfortable with identifying as female. They have had their rights taken away from them. Disgusting cowardly hypocrisy is my view on it.
As for all on here who think all of this is just fine, if you think that allowing a 6 year old child to set any agenda is ok then I fear you have serious mental health issues. You all need a very good luck at yourselves, it's utterly embarrassing that grown adults believe a 6 year old child, or any child, regardless of the "issue" should be allowed to dictate life choices.
The liberal cancer in society is sickening, and some posting on here are vile vile people, in reality they are only interested in confrontation and bullying of people with a "non liberal" view by trying to ostracise them just because they don't want to share a "liberal" view, they do this by placing a stigmatic label on them because that person wishes to remain with a view point that doesn't except the liberal one, which in itself is shear hypocrisy.
I don't care how you identify yourself, what your colour is, what sexuality you are or what religion if any you chose to follow, how about you do the same.
If someone told me they were transgender I couldn't care less, if they were rude, obnoxious and confrontational then I would dislike them for their character, not sexuality , but these days it seems the liberal cancer in society would jump on me, label me and try to bully me into acceptance, hypocritical garbage.
My youngest is convinced she should be Spider-Man, would I send her to school dressed as Spider-Man as that is where she is emotionally comfortable, no, I have too much respect for the school, its children and other parents to demand such things. Oh, and for anyone about to post some drivel about the transgender issue being more important, you're being a hypocrite and not trying to understand my child's emotional needs and how she identifies herself in society.......easy isn't it?.........

[Murph7355]

Randy Winkman said:

But it is "the school uniform". And before you say "but it's only the school uniform for girls", what's the rationale for that? Other than "because it is!".

Taken a step further the other way, why would you deem even "the school uniform" acceptable? Why not allow kids to wear their batsuits to school? Not wearing a batsuit is, after all, a societal construct too. No?

Randy Winkman said:

Does that mean we have to tolerate prejudice and bullying forever?

I actually think we do. Human nature intervenes and will always lead to this at times, no matter how much you try to eradicate it. Indeed the very act of trying to eradicate it will create some.

Far better, IMO, to try to educate. Including educating those subjected to "life" that they have it within them to get beyond bullying etc.

[Randy Winkman]

popeyewhite said:

Randy Winkman said:

But it is "the school uniform". And before you say etc etc

I didn't.
I directly addressed one of your posts asking why pupils have to wear a specific uniform. In the case in question, they don't.

Apologies - perhaps we don't actually disagree on anything. I'll have to look for another post to disagree with.

[popeyewhite]

Randy Winkman said:

Apologies - perhaps we don't actually disagree on anything. I'll have to look for another post to disagree with.

Looking back my post wasn't terribly clear in the first place.

[Goaty Bill 2]

bhstewie said:

<snip>

Remind me again what it is that priests wear?

Male priests generally wear trousers.

The article of clothing that I suspect you are referring to is a cassock.

ETA
For clarification, the cassock is worn over the 'street' clothes, not instead of.

Edited by Goaty Bill 2 on Tuesday 12th September 12:14

[Goaty Bill 2]

Murph7355 said:

The idea of grey boiler suits adorned with numbers so we don't have to reference people by gender or name is starting to look attractive....and not just for schools

Ahh yes, late 1940s Gulag style attire.
It will be all the rage again soon enough I suspect.

And numbers don't Have gender (yet) as far as I am aware.

[qube_TA]

Jimmy Recard said:

qube_TA said:

I don't know, armchair phycology here.

Son, you need kelp

I like a bit of seaweed me.

[gadgetmac]

Goaty Bill 2 said:

Male priests generally wear trousers.

The article of clothing that I suspect you are referring to is a cassock.

ETA
For clarification, the cassock is worn over the 'street' clothes, not instead of.

Except on choir practice evening, obviously.

[Hayek]

Randy Winkman said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Randy Winkman said:

But it is "the school uniform". And before you say "but it's only the school uniform for girls", what's the rationale for that? Other than "because it is!".

Umm, it's been illegal to do that for seven years, anyway.

And that's the whole point. The school would actually be breaking the law by saying "You can only wear this portion of the uniform list because you have a willy..."

Thanks. In that case I'm not sure what the issue is.

I thought the uniform was slightly beside the point. The real issue is there's a boy wearing girls uniform because he thinks he's a girl (some days) and irresponsible adults in positions of authority and indulging his fantasy (and dragging the rest of the class along for the ride).