Fists fly at Speakers Corner
Discussion
P2c, no it kind of does answer my question and I appreciate your honesty. You're the first person I've seen answer this which is good.
I have no issue with 99% of transwoman. However there seems to be a small minority who want to trample over women in order to demonstrate something (and I'm not even sure what). Sadly they seem to be so vocal that they do other transwoman a big disservice.
Interestingly the only transwoman I know (Miranda Yardly) seems just as fed up with such individuals. And at Speakers Corner when Miranda was filming what was happening a young lady with a banner came right in front (inches) in front of Miranda and was screaming in his face (I'm not misgendering, Miranda prefers male pronouns). Miranda pointed out to this woman the irony that she was shutting down the person who was the transsexual while saying she was there promoting/protecting transsexuals. Crazy isn't it! The woman totally ignored what Miranda was saying and just continued screaming abuse at him.
I have no issue with 99% of transwoman. However there seems to be a small minority who want to trample over women in order to demonstrate something (and I'm not even sure what). Sadly they seem to be so vocal that they do other transwoman a big disservice.
Interestingly the only transwoman I know (Miranda Yardly) seems just as fed up with such individuals. And at Speakers Corner when Miranda was filming what was happening a young lady with a banner came right in front (inches) in front of Miranda and was screaming in his face (I'm not misgendering, Miranda prefers male pronouns). Miranda pointed out to this woman the irony that she was shutting down the person who was the transsexual while saying she was there promoting/protecting transsexuals. Crazy isn't it! The woman totally ignored what Miranda was saying and just continued screaming abuse at him.
vivalebeaver said:
And what do people think about Riley J Dennis who says if you're a straight man who doesn't want to sleep with a transwoman (who has a penis) then you're transphobic. Or if you're a lesbian who doesn't want to sleep with a transwoman (with a penis) then you're transphobic.
But it's fine for transwoman to place online dating ads for women but then specify "no transwoman" in their ad because they don't want to sleep with someone with a penis....because I guess deep down they know they're not a gay man.
I think people should stop concentrating on bits and more on the person, But fundamentally if your nor horny for the person your shagging then its not working. If you wont consider it then you may never know what your missing. But it's fine for transwoman to place online dating ads for women but then specify "no transwoman" in their ad because they don't want to sleep with someone with a penis....because I guess deep down they know they're not a gay man.
Its not great to be rejected for prejudiced reasons, its essentially the same as mixed race relationships are rejected out of hand by some, but at the end of the day its probably better to find out someone is a prejudiced before the bits bump, Hypocrisy is also not a great trait, but the world is diverse and all the problems you cite may not be present in the one person (although it probably is somewhere)
I would have to disagree with using "PC language" in maternity leaflets.
I'm sure some women who identify as men get pregnant and I would respectfully use whatever pronoun and name they want to be known by. But writing women out of pregnancy literature is wrong. Sorry but I don't believe in female penises and male vaginas. Gender is different to sex. And biologically only females can get pregnant. That female can identify as whatever they want but biology is biology and that determines your sex. Gender is different.
I'm sure some women who identify as men get pregnant and I would respectfully use whatever pronoun and name they want to be known by. But writing women out of pregnancy literature is wrong. Sorry but I don't believe in female penises and male vaginas. Gender is different to sex. And biologically only females can get pregnant. That female can identify as whatever they want but biology is biology and that determines your sex. Gender is different.
vivalebeaver said:
P2c, no it kind of does answer my question and I appreciate your honesty. You're the first person I've seen answer this which is good.
I have no issue with 99% of transwoman. However there seems to be a small minority who want to trample over women in order to demonstrate something (and I'm not even sure what). Sadly they seem to be so vocal that they do other transwoman a big disservice.
Interestingly the only transwoman I know (Miranda Yardly) seems just as fed up with such individuals. And at Speakers Corner when Miranda was filming what was happening a young lady with a banner came right in front (inches) in front of Miranda and was screaming in his face (I'm not misgendering, Miranda prefers male pronouns). Miranda pointed out to this woman the irony that she was shutting down the person who was the transsexual while saying she was there promoting/protecting transsexuals. Crazy isn't it! The woman totally ignored what Miranda was saying and just continued screaming abuse at him.
I think a lot of the problem seems to come from some assumption that trans people are a hive mind and all want the same thing. Its a shame to see internal fighting and i know Miranda is not seen in a good light within the community for what she has said and done with her platform. However i tend to agree that the extremes on the other end, especially when it comes to fists flying, do no good either, and there has been widespread condemnation from the trans community of the fist flyer too . I have no issue with 99% of transwoman. However there seems to be a small minority who want to trample over women in order to demonstrate something (and I'm not even sure what). Sadly they seem to be so vocal that they do other transwoman a big disservice.
Interestingly the only transwoman I know (Miranda Yardly) seems just as fed up with such individuals. And at Speakers Corner when Miranda was filming what was happening a young lady with a banner came right in front (inches) in front of Miranda and was screaming in his face (I'm not misgendering, Miranda prefers male pronouns). Miranda pointed out to this woman the irony that she was shutting down the person who was the transsexual while saying she was there promoting/protecting transsexuals. Crazy isn't it! The woman totally ignored what Miranda was saying and just continued screaming abuse at him.
If i am honest i am not 100% familiar with what Miranda stands for and maybe its time i find out, but 100% assumption is that the problem is probably similar to Caitlin Jenner in the US and also India Willoughby in the UK in that they speak to their own truth, claim its their own truth but with a platform that is used against the rest of the trans community.
Personally I am not a big fan of screaming at people and going on marches let alone getting physical, but the incident at speakers corner is a "Trump Tm" both sides thing, Much hay has been made out of the punch, but its also worth noting that the person hit was engaged in violently shaking and holding in a headlock another person at the time they were hit.
vivalebeaver said:
I would have to disagree with using "PC language" in maternity leaflets.
I'm sure some women who identify as men get pregnant and I would respectfully use whatever pronoun and name they want to be known by. But writing women out of pregnancy literature is wrong. Sorry but I don't believe in female penises and male vaginas. Gender is different to sex. And biologically only females can get pregnant. That female can identify as whatever they want but biology is biology and that determines your sex. Gender is different.
Then write female in the leaflet, personally i couldn't give a crap and like i said i don't think its being driven by the trans community. I'm sure some women who identify as men get pregnant and I would respectfully use whatever pronoun and name they want to be known by. But writing women out of pregnancy literature is wrong. Sorry but I don't believe in female penises and male vaginas. Gender is different to sex. And biologically only females can get pregnant. That female can identify as whatever they want but biology is biology and that determines your sex. Gender is different.
It's like the woman and equalities committee where the trans and nb asked for X on passports and the feminist MP;s said, lets get rid of gender, but oh hang on we cant do that
vivalebeaver said:
I couldn't sleep with someone with a vagina whether or not they're s lesbian or a transman. I don't think that makes me homophobic or transphobic.....I just wouldn't find them attractive. I also don't find blokes with blonde hair attractive.
But the question is. If you found your ideal partner and fell in love with them as a person, would you walk away when you found out they had dyed their hair. My partner is not a lesbian but she finds herself in a relationship with a woman and is happy about it. Plenty of other people find themselves in similar situations. I don't really like banding about trans and homo phobic terms and try my hardest not to and wouldn't now, i was very careful not to address or allude to such in a previous post. I prefer people to reflect on what they write and if they feel themselves as under threat of such terms then maybe its time for a rethink.
I dunno. If my Mrs came home with bright green hair I wouldn't leave her, but if she had decided to become a man I'm not sure how I would react, as if I wanted to be in a relationship with a man I wouldn't have started one with a woman. Call me shallow. It obviously doesn't bother your partner though, and I'm glad that's the case and that you're both happy.
vivalebeaver said:
And what do people think about Riley J Dennis who says if you're a straight man who doesn't want to sleep with a transwoman (who has a penis) then you're transphobic. Or if you're a lesbian who doesn't want to sleep with a transwoman (with a penis) then you're transphobic.
I think the judgement of someone so damaged should be treated like the worthless garbage it is.
Mr2Mike said:
vivalebeaver said:
And what do people think about Riley J Dennis who says if you're a straight man who doesn't want to sleep with a transwoman (who has a penis) then you're transphobic. Or if you're a lesbian who doesn't want to sleep with a transwoman (with a penis) then you're transphobic.
I think the judgement of someone so damaged should be treated like the worthless garbage it is.I've watched a few minutes of this person previously, but thought I'd have another look.
"Are genital preferences transphobic?" (yes apparently)
"Not dating bisexual people is biphobic." (that's a new word for me, and yet another one that I will ignore)
Interesting that a person that insists that sex is non-binary should hold such binary points of view and binary judgements. i.e. they're right and everyone else is wrong and should change or... be given a 'bad person' label.
The cognitive dissonance apparent in this statement is quite telling;
"Instead of forcing trans people to use language that causes them distress, we could just as easily adjust our language to not cause them distress in the first place."
The introductory video on their youtube page is a similarly biased demand on society at large.
While stating innumerable facts, the conclusions aren't logical ones at all.
Paraphrasing; "not all women have breasts, for example if they've had a mastectomy, so it's wrong to say "all women over <a certain age> should be screened for breast cancer"."
Frankly, it's quite annoying to listen to someone giving forth a tirade at a speed only exceeded by Camille Paglia, without the ability to provide a similar quality of logical cohesive argument.
No one enjoys being lectured by an arrogant self-obsessed ideologue.
XM5ER said:
Goaty Bill 2 said:
No one enjoys being lectured by an arrogant self-obsessed ideologue.
Shame nobody mentioned that to Hillary Clinton. 
And out comes her book - doing more of the same.
That's what happens when you can't rationalise beyond your ideology - everyone else is just 'wrong' and beneath consideration.
ETA
Really, I should be clear that I don't believe H Clinton has an ideology beyond achieving power, prestige and money for herself. But it is the publicly declared ideologies she hung her coat on when she entered the election, and the supporters she hoped to gain by that and by playing identity politics. She seems to feel that is still her best power base for any political future.
Edited by Goaty Bill 2 on Tuesday 19th September 12:07
Goaty Bill 2 said:
It's been mentioned to her/around her/about her many, many times.
And out comes her book - doing more of the same.
That's what happens when you can't rationalise beyond your ideology - everyone else is just 'wrong' and beneath consideration.
ETA
Really, I should be clear that I don't believe H Clinton has an ideology beyond achieving power, prestige and money for herself. But it is the publicly declared ideologies she hung her coat on when she entered the election, and the supporters she hoped to gain by that and by playing identity politics. She seems to feel that is still her best power base for any political future.
I don't know if you've ever listened to Prof Jordan Peterson talk about Post-modernism in politics, the acquisition of power is all there is on the left. That is their ideology.And out comes her book - doing more of the same.
That's what happens when you can't rationalise beyond your ideology - everyone else is just 'wrong' and beneath consideration.
ETA
Really, I should be clear that I don't believe H Clinton has an ideology beyond achieving power, prestige and money for herself. But it is the publicly declared ideologies she hung her coat on when she entered the election, and the supporters she hoped to gain by that and by playing identity politics. She seems to feel that is still her best power base for any political future.
Edited by Goaty Bill 2 on Tuesday 19th September 12:07
XM5ER said:
Goaty Bill 2 said:
It's been mentioned to her/around her/about her many, many times.
And out comes her book - doing more of the same.
That's what happens when you can't rationalise beyond your ideology - everyone else is just 'wrong' and beneath consideration.
ETA
Really, I should be clear that I don't believe H Clinton has an ideology beyond achieving power, prestige and money for herself. But it is the publicly declared ideologies she hung her coat on when she entered the election, and the supporters she hoped to gain by that and by playing identity politics. She seems to feel that is still her best power base for any political future.
I don't know if you've ever listened to Prof Jordan Peterson talk about Post-modernism in politics, the acquisition of power is all there is on the left. That is their ideology.And out comes her book - doing more of the same.
That's what happens when you can't rationalise beyond your ideology - everyone else is just 'wrong' and beneath consideration.
ETA
Really, I should be clear that I don't believe H Clinton has an ideology beyond achieving power, prestige and money for herself. But it is the publicly declared ideologies she hung her coat on when she entered the election, and the supporters she hoped to gain by that and by playing identity politics. She seems to feel that is still her best power base for any political future.
I was especially impressed by Hicks' ability to bring the conversation back to a starting point from where they had veered off, and on multiple occasions.
Hicks authored Explaining Postmodernism which Peterson highly recommends.
That is on my list, but I thought I would apply my ignorance to Jung and Nietzsche first. I have journeyed the Archipelago with Solzhenitsyn, followed doings of Police Battalion 101 through Poland with Browning (Ordinary Men), and experienced the nihilism of Dostoevsky's works.
I originate from the same side of the country, if not the same province, as Peterson. He spent his youth working on ranches and oil fields of Alberta giving him (I think) a 'working man's' (or "average person's" if one prefers more inclusive terminology), appreciation of life's issues that I suspect many (though by no means all) academicians lack.
That some people choose to label him a 'transphobe' or 'alt-right' only confirms their complete lack of comprehension of his lectures and talks. Many of those sort (transphobes and alt-right) were initially drawn to him and tried to make him their poster boy, but they had all misunderstood him from the beginning and seem thankfully to be falling away. They certainly gained zero support from him.
Marie did not have someone in a headlock prior to things kicking off. She was stood there videoing events/the transactivists shouting abuse. Someone tried to steal her camera (and eventually succeeded), there was a scuffle while this person continued trying to get he camera off her and it sounds like she put up some resistance to this violent attack/theft. Whether anyone got anyone in a headlock at this point I'm not sure. Possible but if someone was trying to run off with my camera I would do more than put them in a headlock! A friend of mine wasn't there and that's what she saw. I believe her.....she's not that heavily into the femminist scene and I think if it had been different she would quite happily have said to me "hey Viva, I went to this thing and some crazy rad fems jumped on some transactivists". But that's not what she saw.
jmorgan said:
chris watton said:
If ever the 'Peoples Front of Judea' and the 'Judean Peoples Front' meme was appropriate, I think this fits the bill perfectly!
Not just me then.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff