Boris. £350m for the NHS if we leave EU. Again.
Discussion
Eddie Strohacker said:
ragey like Deptford. 
You mistake ( not for the first time ) mocking you for rage. I'm very happy. I voted for what I wanted ( you could learn from this ) and got it.
I'll leave it to you to be unhappy and moaning about even having a referendum. Cheer up and enjoy Brexit. If you carry on like this for the next few years, I fear you won't even make it.
TTwiggy said:
Deptford Draylons said:
Disappointed.
And would you have left it at that?
The difference here being to what we have now is we know 75% of MPs are Remainers and so are the 3 big parties. There would have been no Gina Miller style court cases, no election or rebellion where MPs immediately say we should vote again and so on as we have now. Ukip would have still collapsed and were only a part of the cause of Cameron calling a referendum.
People on here always quote Farage saying it would be 'unfinished business' as if that means something huge. What they decline to do is say what he could have done other than campaign on from the sidelines. The country would have moved on and his only chance of getting his aims would be at the ballot box, something he wouldn't achieve.
Deptford Draylons said:
I wouldn't have been able to do much. Cameron would have stayed, no election. What could I do ?
The difference here being to what we have now is we know 75% of MPs are Remainers and so are the 3 big parties. There would have been no Gina Miller style court cases, no election or rebellion where MPs immediately say we should vote again and so on as we have now. Ukip would have still collapsed and were only a part of the cause of Cameron calling a referendum.
People on here always quote Farage saying it would be 'unfinished business' as if that means something huge. What they decline to do is say what he could have done other than campaign on from the sidelines. The country would have moved on and his only chance of getting his aims would be at the ballot box, something he wouldn't achieve.
That would have been the political position, but the nub of the issue on here tends to revolve around the personal position of some posters. Would you have personally 'shut up and put up' if the result was that tight the other way around? (I'm assuming you were vocally anti-EU before the referendum – I accept it's a moot point if you were not). The difference here being to what we have now is we know 75% of MPs are Remainers and so are the 3 big parties. There would have been no Gina Miller style court cases, no election or rebellion where MPs immediately say we should vote again and so on as we have now. Ukip would have still collapsed and were only a part of the cause of Cameron calling a referendum.
People on here always quote Farage saying it would be 'unfinished business' as if that means something huge. What they decline to do is say what he could have done other than campaign on from the sidelines. The country would have moved on and his only chance of getting his aims would be at the ballot box, something he wouldn't achieve.
Anyhow somewhat back on Topic.
Boris Johnson may resign if TM opts for a Swiss style Brexit and good on him if he does.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/19/b...
Boris Johnson may resign if TM opts for a Swiss style Brexit and good on him if he does.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/19/b...
Deptford Draylons said:
TTwiggy said:
Deptford Draylons said:
Disappointed.
And would you have left it at that?
The difference here being to what we have now is we know 75% of MPs are Remainers and so are the 3 big parties. There would have been no Gina Miller style court cases, no election or rebellion where MPs immediately say we should vote again and so on as we have now. Ukip would have still collapsed and were only a part of the cause of Cameron calling a referendum.
People on here always quote Farage saying it would be 'unfinished business' as if that means something huge. What they decline to do is say what he could have done other than campaign on from the sidelines. The country would have moved on and his only chance of getting his aims would be at the ballot box, something he wouldn't achieve.
If the referendum had been lost (i.e. Remain) then I would have got on with my life, while still being profoundly sceptical. Because to be honest that is precisely how it has been for the last 40 odd years, but also that's how one deals with politics you don't agree with. Either shrug & move on, or motivate and join a movement.
It has been an eye-opener watching a significant chunk (including a number of PHers) lose their shizzle over the result. They really are reminiscent of the worst of the nutters (Cash, Redwood etc), which would be fair enough if they put their money where their mouth is and actually joined an anti-referendum party. But they don't. They rage on powerlessly about an injustice or a lie/Bus along with ad homs. It's quite remarkable and feels deeply divisive, but that's why large number of people no longer feel it's worth reading the varying and constantly iterating Brexit threads.
Ridgemont said:
Indeed. It's been a fact of life for those sceptics born after accession that the EU is there, and was a work in progress which was wholey in one direction. Maastricht ('92), Nice ('01), Lisbon ('08) etc. Apart from nutters and onanists, after each iteration it was dispiriting but not something that resulted in a collective meltdown. The fact that each iteration empowered the Referendum Party>UKIP was inevitable but they were fringe even if the effect was to hollow out the Tory Party. Arguably that's how democracy works. A motivation begets a political movement.
If the referendum had been lost (i.e. Remain) then I would have got on with my life, while still being profoundly sceptical. Because to be honest that is precisely how it has been for the last 40 odd years, but also that's how one deals with politics you don't agree with. Either shrug & move on, or motivate and join a movement.
It has been an eye-opener watching a significant chunk (including a number of PHers) lose their shizzle over the result. They really are reminiscent of the worst of the nutters (Cash, Redwood etc), which would be fair enough if they put their money where their mouth is and actually joined an anti-referendum party. But they don't. They rage on powerlessly about an injustice or a lie/Bus along with ad homs. It's quite remarkable and feels deeply divisive, but that's why large number of people no longer feel it's worth reading the varying and constantly iterating Brexit threads.
Same.If the referendum had been lost (i.e. Remain) then I would have got on with my life, while still being profoundly sceptical. Because to be honest that is precisely how it has been for the last 40 odd years, but also that's how one deals with politics you don't agree with. Either shrug & move on, or motivate and join a movement.
It has been an eye-opener watching a significant chunk (including a number of PHers) lose their shizzle over the result. They really are reminiscent of the worst of the nutters (Cash, Redwood etc), which would be fair enough if they put their money where their mouth is and actually joined an anti-referendum party. But they don't. They rage on powerlessly about an injustice or a lie/Bus along with ad homs. It's quite remarkable and feels deeply divisive, but that's why large number of people no longer feel it's worth reading the varying and constantly iterating Brexit threads.
Said it before, I'd have moaned a bit but certainly not to these levels because I respect democracy. If it had been one vote difference I would have accepted it.
Funkycoldribena said:
Ridgemont said:
Indeed. It's been a fact of life for those sceptics born after accession that the EU is there, and was a work in progress which was wholey in one direction. Maastricht ('92), Nice ('01), Lisbon ('08) etc. Apart from nutters and onanists, after each iteration it was dispiriting but not something that resulted in a collective meltdown. The fact that each iteration empowered the Referendum Party>UKIP was inevitable but they were fringe even if the effect was to hollow out the Tory Party. Arguably that's how democracy works. A motivation begets a political movement.
If the referendum had been lost (i.e. Remain) then I would have got on with my life, while still being profoundly sceptical. Because to be honest that is precisely how it has been for the last 40 odd years, but also that's how one deals with politics you don't agree with. Either shrug & move on, or motivate and join a movement.
It has been an eye-opener watching a significant chunk (including a number of PHers) lose their shizzle over the result. They really are reminiscent of the worst of the nutters (Cash, Redwood etc), which would be fair enough if they put their money where their mouth is and actually joined an anti-referendum party. But they don't. They rage on powerlessly about an injustice or a lie/Bus along with ad homs. It's quite remarkable and feels deeply divisive, but that's why large number of people no longer feel it's worth reading the varying and constantly iterating Brexit threads.
Same.If the referendum had been lost (i.e. Remain) then I would have got on with my life, while still being profoundly sceptical. Because to be honest that is precisely how it has been for the last 40 odd years, but also that's how one deals with politics you don't agree with. Either shrug & move on, or motivate and join a movement.
It has been an eye-opener watching a significant chunk (including a number of PHers) lose their shizzle over the result. They really are reminiscent of the worst of the nutters (Cash, Redwood etc), which would be fair enough if they put their money where their mouth is and actually joined an anti-referendum party. But they don't. They rage on powerlessly about an injustice or a lie/Bus along with ad homs. It's quite remarkable and feels deeply divisive, but that's why large number of people no longer feel it's worth reading the varying and constantly iterating Brexit threads.
Said it before, I'd have moaned a bit but certainly not to these levels because I respect democracy. If it had been one vote difference I would have accepted it.
kurt535 said:
don'tbesilly said:
kurt535 said:
don'tbesilly said:
kurt535 said:
Romanian lad runs his own cement underpinning/groundworks business. He has been here for 17 years. He set up on his own 10 years ago having got fed up with knuckle dragging racism wherever he worked on a building site. Now with Brexit, he is going back to Romania, ironically shutting down a company that employs 5 people, 3 of whom are english.
So your Romanian friend set his business up when the industry was approaching the worst recession the industry had seen for years, survived the recession that lasted 12-18 months, and for no other reason other than Brexit (which given he's been here for 17 years will probably not have any impact on him what so ever) he is shutting down what according to you is a successful business employing 5 people.Makes no sense.
So which one of your trades people sent you the link that you wax so lyrical about in this post:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
You also couldn't have done your last project without them, but needn't guidance on how to deal with the damp problems you were encountering in the 200 + yr property.
kurt535 said:
craziest thing, all bar the english labourer have an in-depth knowledge of our old buildings - by old i mean 200 years plus. my most recent project could not have been achieved without them.
You couldn't make it up.................................unless your Kurt535 TTwiggy said:
Deptford Draylons said:
I wouldn't have been able to do much. Cameron would have stayed, no election. What could I do ?
The difference here being to what we have now is we know 75% of MPs are Remainers and so are the 3 big parties. There would have been no Gina Miller style court cases, no election or rebellion where MPs immediately say we should vote again and so on as we have now. Ukip would have still collapsed and were only a part of the cause of Cameron calling a referendum.
People on here always quote Farage saying it would be 'unfinished business' as if that means something huge. What they decline to do is say what he could have done other than campaign on from the sidelines. The country would have moved on and his only chance of getting his aims would be at the ballot box, something he wouldn't achieve.
That would have been the political position, but the nub of the issue on here tends to revolve around the personal position of some posters. Would you have personally 'shut up and put up' if the result was that tight the other way around? (I'm assuming you were vocally anti-EU before the referendum – I accept it's a moot point if you were not). The difference here being to what we have now is we know 75% of MPs are Remainers and so are the 3 big parties. There would have been no Gina Miller style court cases, no election or rebellion where MPs immediately say we should vote again and so on as we have now. Ukip would have still collapsed and were only a part of the cause of Cameron calling a referendum.
People on here always quote Farage saying it would be 'unfinished business' as if that means something huge. What they decline to do is say what he could have done other than campaign on from the sidelines. The country would have moved on and his only chance of getting his aims would be at the ballot box, something he wouldn't achieve.
So I don't think you can say I'm telling people to 'put up or shut up' in all opposition to all things Brexit. So you are perfectly free to talk about the risks to things like the car industry in a sensible way ( this doesn't include pretending you have the inside line on the Nissan deal as before ) and I'll maybe agree or disagree, but I think you are confusing this with those who make no bones about just not accepting the result and expect to just be handed a second referendum somehow without voting for it and refusing to explain why.
Someone here the other week was happy to say he wanted another vote and voted LibDem. All respect to the guy , he wasn't afraid to say why. Others who advocate another referendum say they didn't vote for it and then get pissy by saying its a trap to ask why they voted for another party in the face of their doom predictions and what the priority was in voting for a party endorsing leaving. Although in Labour's case that's all over the shop in the past weeks.
Deptford Draylons said:
I've said here people voting for a party like the LibDems who state they stand at an election to offer another referendum is right and just. I don't agree with them and think they were deluded to do so, as evidenced by their vote share drop and the fact that the top 5 PHers of ' we're doomed, economic ruination, think of the children' even declined to vote that way.
Someone here the other week was happy to say he wanted another vote and voted LibDem. All respect to the guy , he wasn't afraid to say why.
Don't think that was me that said that - but I did. I even paid to join the LDs when this year's election was announced.Someone here the other week was happy to say he wanted another vote and voted LibDem. All respect to the guy , he wasn't afraid to say why.
Deptford Draylons said:
I've said here people voting for a party like the LibDems who state they stand at an election to offer another referendum is right and just. I don't agree with them and think they were deluded to do so, as evidenced by their vote share drop and the fact that the top 5 PHers of ' we're doomed, economic ruination, think of the children' even declined to vote that way.
So I don't think you can say I'm telling people to 'put up or shut up' in all opposition to all things Brexit. So you are perfectly free to talk about the risks to things like the car industry in a sensible way ( this doesn't include pretending you have the inside line on the Nissan deal as before ) and I'll maybe agree or disagree, but I think you are confusing this with those who make no bones about just not accepting the result and expect to just be handed a second referendum somehow without voting for it and refusing to explain why.
Someone here the other week was happy to say he wanted another vote and voted LibDem. All respect to the guy , he wasn't afraid to say why. Others who advocate another referendum say they didn't vote for it and then get pissy by saying its a trap to ask why they voted for another party in the face of their doom predictions and what the priority was in voting for a party endorsing leaving. Although in Labour's case that's all over the shop in the past weeks.
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised you've swerved the question being asked since I'll credit you with seeing what Twiggy is getting at. But it does give lie to any notion that the people you focus on to the point of obsession e.g bringing up ///ajd's Nissan thing three or four times a day, every day, are dodging questions to your obvious contempt. So I don't think you can say I'm telling people to 'put up or shut up' in all opposition to all things Brexit. So you are perfectly free to talk about the risks to things like the car industry in a sensible way ( this doesn't include pretending you have the inside line on the Nissan deal as before ) and I'll maybe agree or disagree, but I think you are confusing this with those who make no bones about just not accepting the result and expect to just be handed a second referendum somehow without voting for it and refusing to explain why.
Someone here the other week was happy to say he wanted another vote and voted LibDem. All respect to the guy , he wasn't afraid to say why. Others who advocate another referendum say they didn't vote for it and then get pissy by saying its a trap to ask why they voted for another party in the face of their doom predictions and what the priority was in voting for a party endorsing leaving. Although in Labour's case that's all over the shop in the past weeks.
Personally, I rather suspect had remain won, you would be in here arguing the toss but admitting that undermines you, so obviously, you won't.
On the point of the Lib Dems, it's an overly simplistic conclusion that their stance on Brexit should have produced a better outcome at the GE. The electorate are far more sophisticated than you credit them & make decisions based on more than a single issue. I'm a staunch remainer & didn't vote for them. I don't recall you or anyone else asking me why that is.
Eddie Strohacker said:
The electorate are far more sophisticated than you credit them...
That's not terribly hard, given how little credit I give many of them.Eddie Strohacker said:
...& make decisions based on more than a single issue.
No, some of them base their decisions on a whole week's-worth of Daily Mails...Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff