Boris. £350m for the NHS if we leave EU. Again.
Discussion
This whole nested quoting is tedious.
I have no doubt extracting ourselves from 40+ years of integration isn't easy, that doesn't mean it's not possible or desirable.
You appear to think its just the UK side that is causing delays and uncertainty, which isn't a balanced or fair assessment of the situation, especially on citizen rights where UK wanted to discuss this well before Art 50 was triggered, to offer some reassurance to EU migrants.
the EU position paper on the withdrawal agreement states the following:
"IV. Enforcement and dispute settlement rules
(1) The Commission should have full powers for the monitoring and the Court of Justice of the
European Union should have full jurisdiction corresponding to the duration of the protection
of citizen's rights in the Withdrawal agreement.
(2) Citizens should thus be able to enforce their rights granted by the Withdrawal Agreement in
accordance with the same ordinary rules as set out in the Union Treaties on cooperation
between national courts and the Court of Justice, i.e. including a mechanism analogous to
Article 267 TFEU for preliminary reference from UK courts to the Court of Justice of the
European Union."
There is a document that covers the EU/UK position on the talks that shows the basic progress so far, I linked to it earlier https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-politic...
But there is also another version of the document that has the comments of the Brexit steering group of the EU parliament, basically its verhofstadt's gang. http://www.epgencms.europarl.europa.eu/cmsdata/upl...
I have no doubt extracting ourselves from 40+ years of integration isn't easy, that doesn't mean it's not possible or desirable.
You appear to think its just the UK side that is causing delays and uncertainty, which isn't a balanced or fair assessment of the situation, especially on citizen rights where UK wanted to discuss this well before Art 50 was triggered, to offer some reassurance to EU migrants.
the EU position paper on the withdrawal agreement states the following:
"IV. Enforcement and dispute settlement rules
(1) The Commission should have full powers for the monitoring and the Court of Justice of the
European Union should have full jurisdiction corresponding to the duration of the protection
of citizen's rights in the Withdrawal agreement.
(2) Citizens should thus be able to enforce their rights granted by the Withdrawal Agreement in
accordance with the same ordinary rules as set out in the Union Treaties on cooperation
between national courts and the Court of Justice, i.e. including a mechanism analogous to
Article 267 TFEU for preliminary reference from UK courts to the Court of Justice of the
European Union."
There is a document that covers the EU/UK position on the talks that shows the basic progress so far, I linked to it earlier https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-politic...
But there is also another version of the document that has the comments of the Brexit steering group of the EU parliament, basically its verhofstadt's gang. http://www.epgencms.europarl.europa.eu/cmsdata/upl...
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 21st September 02:24
And this is the statement made by the parliament working group after the 2nd round.
"Brexit: Statement by Guy Verhofstadt and the EP Brexit Steering Group
The Brexit Steering group met Michel Barnier, EU negotiator for Brexit on Tuesday 25 July and issued this common statement after the 2nd round of negotiations between the EU and the UK.
“Last week was the first real round of Brexit negotiations between the European Union and the United Kingdom. It was an opportunity for the two parties to review the main issues and map out where further explanations are necessary,” said the Members of the EP Brexit Steering group.
“However, if we want negotiations to succeed within the limited time we have, progress on more detailed content will have to be made sooner rather than later. We can only start talking about a new EU-UK relationship if sufficient progress has been achieved in the three main withdrawal areas: citizens’ rights, the financial settlement and the border issue on the island of Ireland.”
“The European Parliament cannot be clear enough that sufficient progress means progress across the board, and not just in one or two areas. The European Parliament will formally and in due time indicate when the point of ‘sufficient progress’ has been reached”
“To be precise, the European Parliament will remain vigilant regarding citizens’ rights and will continue to push for full rights for EU citizens in the UK as well as UK citizens in the EU. It is a core mission of the European project to protect, not to diminish, the fundamental rights of all citizens."
“The European Parliament specifically seeks to fully safeguard the rights concerning family reunion, comprehensive healthcare, voting rights in local elections, the transferability of (social) rights, and the rules governing permanent residence (including the right to leave the UK without losing this status). Simultaneously, we seek to avoid an administrative burden for citizens and want proposals which are intrusive to people’s privacy off the table, e.g. proposed systematic criminal checks.”
“Last but not least, the European Parliament wants the Withdrawal Agreement to be directly enforceable and to include a mechanism in which the European Court of Justice can play its full role.”
Members of the Brexit Steering group:
Guy Verhofstadt
Elmar Brok
Roberto Gualtieri
Philippe Lamberts
Gabriele Zimmer
Danuta Hübner"
"Brexit: Statement by Guy Verhofstadt and the EP Brexit Steering Group
The Brexit Steering group met Michel Barnier, EU negotiator for Brexit on Tuesday 25 July and issued this common statement after the 2nd round of negotiations between the EU and the UK.
“Last week was the first real round of Brexit negotiations between the European Union and the United Kingdom. It was an opportunity for the two parties to review the main issues and map out where further explanations are necessary,” said the Members of the EP Brexit Steering group.
“However, if we want negotiations to succeed within the limited time we have, progress on more detailed content will have to be made sooner rather than later. We can only start talking about a new EU-UK relationship if sufficient progress has been achieved in the three main withdrawal areas: citizens’ rights, the financial settlement and the border issue on the island of Ireland.”
“The European Parliament cannot be clear enough that sufficient progress means progress across the board, and not just in one or two areas. The European Parliament will formally and in due time indicate when the point of ‘sufficient progress’ has been reached”
“To be precise, the European Parliament will remain vigilant regarding citizens’ rights and will continue to push for full rights for EU citizens in the UK as well as UK citizens in the EU. It is a core mission of the European project to protect, not to diminish, the fundamental rights of all citizens."
“The European Parliament specifically seeks to fully safeguard the rights concerning family reunion, comprehensive healthcare, voting rights in local elections, the transferability of (social) rights, and the rules governing permanent residence (including the right to leave the UK without losing this status). Simultaneously, we seek to avoid an administrative burden for citizens and want proposals which are intrusive to people’s privacy off the table, e.g. proposed systematic criminal checks.”
“Last but not least, the European Parliament wants the Withdrawal Agreement to be directly enforceable and to include a mechanism in which the European Court of Justice can play its full role.”
Members of the Brexit Steering group:
Guy Verhofstadt
Elmar Brok
Roberto Gualtieri
Philippe Lamberts
Gabriele Zimmer
Danuta Hübner"
Disco Infiltrator said:
If Boris does care so much about the NHS, why not just join Labour?
That's a bit harsh , he says he would like to give the NHS some of the money we currently pass on for EU to waste ,Labour think it's a good idea to spend money we haven't got by borrowing off private companies and saddling the health service with years of crippling debt...
jsf said:
And this is the statement made by the parliament working group after the 2nd round.
"Brexit: Statement by Guy Verhofstadt and the EP Brexit Steering Group
The Brexit Steering group met Michel Barnier, EU negotiator for Brexit on Tuesday 25 July and issued this common statement after the 2nd round of negotiations between the EU and the UK.
“Last week was the first real round of Brexit negotiations between the European Union and the United Kingdom. It was an opportunity for the two parties to review the main issues and map out where further explanations are necessary,” said the Members of the EP Brexit Steering group.
“However, if we want negotiations to succeed within the limited time we have, progress on more detailed content will have to be made sooner rather than later. We can only start talking about a new EU-UK relationship if sufficient progress has been achieved in the three main withdrawal areas: citizens’ rights, the financial settlement and the border issue on the island of Ireland.”
“The European Parliament cannot be clear enough that sufficient progress means progress across the board, and not just in one or two areas. The European Parliament will formally and in due time indicate when the point of ‘sufficient progress’ has been reached”
“To be precise, the European Parliament will remain vigilant regarding citizens’ rights and will continue to push for full rights for EU citizens in the UK as well as UK citizens in the EU. It is a core mission of the European project to protect, not to diminish, the fundamental rights of all citizens."
“The European Parliament specifically seeks to fully safeguard the rights concerning family reunion, comprehensive healthcare, voting rights in local elections, the transferability of (social) rights, and the rules governing permanent residence (including the right to leave the UK without losing this status). Simultaneously, we seek to avoid an administrative burden for citizens and want proposals which are intrusive to people’s privacy off the table, e.g. proposed systematic criminal checks.”
“Last but not least, the European Parliament wants the Withdrawal Agreement to be directly enforceable and to include a mechanism in which the European Court of Justice can play its full role.”
Members of the Brexit Steering group:
Guy Verhofstadt
Elmar Brok
Roberto Gualtieri
Philippe Lamberts
Gabriele Zimmer
Danuta Hübner"
our statement should be,"Brexit: Statement by Guy Verhofstadt and the EP Brexit Steering Group
The Brexit Steering group met Michel Barnier, EU negotiator for Brexit on Tuesday 25 July and issued this common statement after the 2nd round of negotiations between the EU and the UK.
“Last week was the first real round of Brexit negotiations between the European Union and the United Kingdom. It was an opportunity for the two parties to review the main issues and map out where further explanations are necessary,” said the Members of the EP Brexit Steering group.
“However, if we want negotiations to succeed within the limited time we have, progress on more detailed content will have to be made sooner rather than later. We can only start talking about a new EU-UK relationship if sufficient progress has been achieved in the three main withdrawal areas: citizens’ rights, the financial settlement and the border issue on the island of Ireland.”
“The European Parliament cannot be clear enough that sufficient progress means progress across the board, and not just in one or two areas. The European Parliament will formally and in due time indicate when the point of ‘sufficient progress’ has been reached”
“To be precise, the European Parliament will remain vigilant regarding citizens’ rights and will continue to push for full rights for EU citizens in the UK as well as UK citizens in the EU. It is a core mission of the European project to protect, not to diminish, the fundamental rights of all citizens."
“The European Parliament specifically seeks to fully safeguard the rights concerning family reunion, comprehensive healthcare, voting rights in local elections, the transferability of (social) rights, and the rules governing permanent residence (including the right to leave the UK without losing this status). Simultaneously, we seek to avoid an administrative burden for citizens and want proposals which are intrusive to people’s privacy off the table, e.g. proposed systematic criminal checks.”
“Last but not least, the European Parliament wants the Withdrawal Agreement to be directly enforceable and to include a mechanism in which the European Court of Justice can play its full role.”
Members of the Brexit Steering group:
Guy Verhofstadt
Elmar Brok
Roberto Gualtieri
Philippe Lamberts
Gabriele Zimmer
Danuta Hübner"
this is tripe we are now working toward WTO rules come back when you understand we are leaving the EU ....
powerstroke said:
jsf said:
And this is the statement made by the parliament working group after the 2nd round.
"Brexit: Statement by Guy Verhofstadt and the EP Brexit Steering Group
The Brexit Steering group met Michel Barnier, EU negotiator for Brexit on Tuesday 25 July and issued this common statement after the 2nd round of negotiations between the EU and the UK.
“Last week was the first real round of Brexit negotiations between the European Union and the United Kingdom. It was an opportunity for the two parties to review the main issues and map out where further explanations are necessary,” said the Members of the EP Brexit Steering group.
“However, if we want negotiations to succeed within the limited time we have, progress on more detailed content will have to be made sooner rather than later. We can only start talking about a new EU-UK relationship if sufficient progress has been achieved in the three main withdrawal areas: citizens’ rights, the financial settlement and the border issue on the island of Ireland.”
“The European Parliament cannot be clear enough that sufficient progress means progress across the board, and not just in one or two areas. The European Parliament will formally and in due time indicate when the point of ‘sufficient progress’ has been reached”
“To be precise, the European Parliament will remain vigilant regarding citizens’ rights and will continue to push for full rights for EU citizens in the UK as well as UK citizens in the EU. It is a core mission of the European project to protect, not to diminish, the fundamental rights of all citizens."
“The European Parliament specifically seeks to fully safeguard the rights concerning family reunion, comprehensive healthcare, voting rights in local elections, the transferability of (social) rights, and the rules governing permanent residence (including the right to leave the UK without losing this status). Simultaneously, we seek to avoid an administrative burden for citizens and want proposals which are intrusive to people’s privacy off the table, e.g. proposed systematic criminal checks.”
“Last but not least, the European Parliament wants the Withdrawal Agreement to be directly enforceable and to include a mechanism in which the European Court of Justice can play its full role.”
Members of the Brexit Steering group:
Guy Verhofstadt
Elmar Brok
Roberto Gualtieri
Philippe Lamberts
Gabriele Zimmer
Danuta Hübner"
our statement should be,"Brexit: Statement by Guy Verhofstadt and the EP Brexit Steering Group
The Brexit Steering group met Michel Barnier, EU negotiator for Brexit on Tuesday 25 July and issued this common statement after the 2nd round of negotiations between the EU and the UK.
“Last week was the first real round of Brexit negotiations between the European Union and the United Kingdom. It was an opportunity for the two parties to review the main issues and map out where further explanations are necessary,” said the Members of the EP Brexit Steering group.
“However, if we want negotiations to succeed within the limited time we have, progress on more detailed content will have to be made sooner rather than later. We can only start talking about a new EU-UK relationship if sufficient progress has been achieved in the three main withdrawal areas: citizens’ rights, the financial settlement and the border issue on the island of Ireland.”
“The European Parliament cannot be clear enough that sufficient progress means progress across the board, and not just in one or two areas. The European Parliament will formally and in due time indicate when the point of ‘sufficient progress’ has been reached”
“To be precise, the European Parliament will remain vigilant regarding citizens’ rights and will continue to push for full rights for EU citizens in the UK as well as UK citizens in the EU. It is a core mission of the European project to protect, not to diminish, the fundamental rights of all citizens."
“The European Parliament specifically seeks to fully safeguard the rights concerning family reunion, comprehensive healthcare, voting rights in local elections, the transferability of (social) rights, and the rules governing permanent residence (including the right to leave the UK without losing this status). Simultaneously, we seek to avoid an administrative burden for citizens and want proposals which are intrusive to people’s privacy off the table, e.g. proposed systematic criminal checks.”
“Last but not least, the European Parliament wants the Withdrawal Agreement to be directly enforceable and to include a mechanism in which the European Court of Justice can play its full role.”
Members of the Brexit Steering group:
Guy Verhofstadt
Elmar Brok
Roberto Gualtieri
Philippe Lamberts
Gabriele Zimmer
Danuta Hübner"
this is tripe we are now working toward WTO rules come back when you understand we are leaving the EU ....
Dictatorship tendencies are clear, hilarious and damning:
eurodrone said:
We can only start talking about a new EU-UK relationship if sufficient progress has been achieved in the three main withdrawal areas: citizens’ rights, the financial settlement and the border issue on the island of Ireland.
eurodrone also said:
The European Parliament cannot be clear enough that sufficient progress means progress across the board, and not just in one or two areas. The European Parliament will formally and in due time indicate when the point of ‘sufficient progress’ has been reached.
In summary: in these 'negotiations' between two parties, one party (the EU side) sets the priorities and the rules, and one party (the EU side) is the referee deciding when the rules are met or broken. That isn't negotiating, it's dictating, and symptomatic of the supreme arrogance of the eurodrone mentality.Adopting powestroke's suggested statement would be a good start in waking these drones up from their prior position of control freakery which is being carried forward without any basis.
Edited by turbobloke on Thursday 21st September 08:29
turbobloke said:
In summary: in these 'negotiations' between two parties, one party (the EU side) sets the priorities and the rules, and one party (the EU side) is the referee deciding when the rules are met or broken. That isn't negotiating, it's dictating, and symptomatic of the supreme arrogance of the eurodrone mentality.
Adopting powestroke's suggested statement would be a good start in waking these drones up from their prior position of control freakery which is being carried forward without any basis.
Yes, we're leaving them, not the other way round. Unmeritorious argument is unmeritorious.Adopting powestroke's suggested statement would be a good start in waking these drones up from their prior position of control freakery which is being carried forward without any basis.
Edited by turbobloke on Thursday 21st September 08:29
Eddie Strohacker said:
turbobloke said:
In summary: in these 'negotiations' between two parties, one party (the EU side) sets the priorities and the rules, and one party (the EU side) is the referee deciding when the rules are met or broken. That isn't negotiating, it's dictating, and symptomatic of the supreme arrogance of the eurodrone mentality.
Adopting powestroke's suggested statement would be a good start in waking these drones up from their prior position of control freakery which is being carried forward without any basis.
Yes, we're leaving them, not the other way round. Unmeritorious argument is unmeritorious.Adopting powestroke's suggested statement would be a good start in waking these drones up from their prior position of control freakery which is being carried forward without any basis.
Edited by turbobloke on Thursday 21st September 08:29
don'tbesilly said:
Eddie Strohacker said:
turbobloke said:
In summary: in these 'negotiations' between two parties, one party (the EU side) sets the priorities and the rules, and one party (the EU side) is the referee deciding when the rules are met or broken. That isn't negotiating, it's dictating, and symptomatic of the supreme arrogance of the eurodrone mentality.
Adopting powestroke's suggested statement would be a good start in waking these drones up from their prior position of control freakery which is being carried forward without any basis.
Yes, we're leaving them, not the other way round. Unmeritorious argument is unmeritorious.Adopting powestroke's suggested statement would be a good start in waking these drones up from their prior position of control freakery which is being carried forward without any basis.
Edited by turbobloke on Thursday 21st September 08:29
"one party (the EU side) sets the priorities and the rules, and one party (the EU side) is the referee deciding when the rules are met or broken."
Great irony too.
turbobloke said:
Great irony too.
You think? Thanks.Those of us not straightened by an ideological tunnel would look at this & conclude a trading bloc, interaction with which is dependent upon certain criteria being met unsurprisingly wishes agreement to be reached on the same criteria before that interaction is negotiated. It's pretty simple to understand to the point that Dexeu are working with it at the same time you barrel about calling it entirely rationally a dictatorship.
I'm amazed you aren't on the negotiating team, giving Jean-Pierre a good old biff on the chin for Blighty.
And, right on cue...
New poll - 52:48. The other way.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...
New poll - 52:48. The other way.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...
TooMany2cvs said:
And, right on cue...
New poll - 52:48. The other way.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...
Somewhere,. the driver can be heard to say "err, which one of these levers is reverse?"New poll - 52:48. The other way.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...
TooMany2cvs said:
And, right on cue...
New poll - 52:48. The other way.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...
Only an idiot would believe polls.New poll - 52:48. The other way.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...
As was proved last year.
TooMany2cvs said:
And, right on cue...
New poll - 52:48. The other way.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...
New poll - 52:48. The other way.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...
Yeah, right on. I think they just cut'n'pasted the one conducted before 23rd June 2016, which also showed...... 52 remain, 48 leave. The link is to an average of 6 polls taken between 16/06 and 22/06. And we all know how well that one turned out, don't we ?
http://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll-of-p...
Strangely enough, the link you posted didn't work for me. Not unlike the EU
b2hbm said:
Yeah, right on. I think they just cut'n'pasted the one conducted before 23rd June 2016, which also showed...... 52 remain, 48 leave. The link is to an average of 6 polls taken between 16/06 and 22/06. And we all know how well that one turned out, don't we ?
http://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll-of-p...
Strangely enough, the link you posted didn't work for me. Not unlike the EU
powerstroke said:
our statement should be,
this is tripe we are now working toward WTO rules come back when you understand we are leaving the EU ....
Yes! I agree! Off you go, toodle pip this is tripe we are now working toward WTO rules come back when you understand we are leaving the EU ....
Enjoy WTO and all that
Oh, you want a 'special relationship'? Well, then, why didn't you say so? Pull up a chair. Right, before we begin, you're gonna have to make a rather generous financial gesture for the benefit of all those I represent; above what you have already committed to when you were a fee-paying Member with all the fantastic benefits that provided. A non-refundable donation. How about £60bn? No? Ah...I'm afraid you can't afford that 'special relationship' then Matey. WTO for you it is!
Oh, Brexit is fun, isn't it? In-fighting yesterday, white flags today, what tomorrow? Coolbanana said:
Yes! I agree! Off you go, toodle pip
Enjoy WTO and all that
Oh, you want a 'special relationship'? Well, then, why didn't you say so? Pull up a chair. Right, before we begin, you're gonna have to make a rather generous financial gesture for the benefit of all those I represent; above what you have already committed to when you were a fee-paying Member with all the fantastic benefits that provided. A non-refundable donation. How about £60bn? No? Ah...I'm afraid you can't afford that 'special relationship' then Matey. WTO for you it is!
Oh, Brexit is fun, isn't it? In-fighting yesterday, white flags today, what tomorrow?
Are you 5? Enjoy WTO and all that
Oh, you want a 'special relationship'? Well, then, why didn't you say so? Pull up a chair. Right, before we begin, you're gonna have to make a rather generous financial gesture for the benefit of all those I represent; above what you have already committed to when you were a fee-paying Member with all the fantastic benefits that provided. A non-refundable donation. How about £60bn? No? Ah...I'm afraid you can't afford that 'special relationship' then Matey. WTO for you it is!
Oh, Brexit is fun, isn't it? In-fighting yesterday, white flags today, what tomorrow? 
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