Boris. £350m for the NHS if we leave EU. Again.
Discussion
TooMany2cvs said:
Let's actually look at the reality of them, shall we?
And then you proceed not too!EU Army - Denied completely, now a reality
EU Finance Minister (not Foreign Minister) - Can intervene in any nation state (note, not Country any more) "if and when required"
Widening Schengen and the Euro Zone - This is imposed, not a choice
More EU control - see above (you have to sign the Treaties and you then have to abide by them)
Your curve ball attempt at the end - You didn't bother, so I won't
loafer123 said:
I find that terrifying.
You would rather be ruled by unelected rulers who do not consider the needs of our own country to be significant to them, than your own elected government.
What is terrifying is the garbage being spouted here! You would rather be ruled by unelected rulers who do not consider the needs of our own country to be significant to them, than your own elected government.
They are NOT unelected! Research the process! Would you have the same concerns if it was a former British PM elected to Juncker's position?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_to_the_Eur...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_Eur...
Coolbanana said:
What is terrifying is the garbage being spouted here!
They are NOT unelected! Research the process! Would you have the same concerns if it was a former British PM elected to Juncker's position?
Are you saying the EU Commissioners (the people with the power) are actually elected? They are NOT unelected! Research the process! Would you have the same concerns if it was a former British PM elected to Juncker's position?
If so, please inform me how I missed my chance to vote for them.
JulianPH said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Let's actually look at the reality of them, shall we?
And then you proceed not too!JulianPH said:
EU Army - Denied completely, now a reality
Is it? How big is it? Where can I sign up for it? What's their uniform look like?JulianPH said:
EU Finance Minister (not Foreign Minister)
You didn't even read your own post... There's been an EU commissioner for finance since 1958.JulianPH said:
Widening Schengen and the Euro Zone - This is imposed, not a choice
Who's it been "imposed" on, and when?JulianPH said:
More EU control - see above (you have to sign the Treaties and you then have to abide by them)
Again, go on...JulianPH said:
Your curve ball attempt at the end - You didn't bother, so I won't
What "curve ball" would that be?JulianPH said:
Are you saying the EU Commissioners (the people with the power) are actually elected?
If so, please inform me how I missed my chance to vote for them.
When did you last vote for a minister or even PM at Westminster? They're the nearest equivalent to a commissioner. They don't make the decisions - the MEPs do that.If so, please inform me how I missed my chance to vote for them.
Remember - ministers don't have to be MPs... and three of the last five PMs to take office have not done so on the back of leading their party into an election, but purely from an internal party selection.
One of the commisioners is appointed by the UK PM. The portfolios are proposed by the president (elected from the commissioners by the heads of the member governments), and confirmed by MEPs.
Perhaps if people understood that a bit better, the UK wouldn't have been a third down on voting strength in the European Parliament since 2014.
JulianPH said:
Simple question for the remainers on here, having seen and heard the stance of the EU a year later (including the announcement of an EU Army, EU Foreign Minister, widening of the Schengen and Euro zone, more EU control towards what look to be a further move towards a federal United States of Europe) do you still think we should remain if you were voting again now?
Who is this EU person you are talking about. I have googled and cannot find any evidence they exist. Now if you had said the President of the Commission had given his views then you would have been accurate.
My response is that Junker has limited powers and it's clear little support from the council.
Pan Pan Pan said:
How long will it take people to understand that the UK has not ,and never has received a single net positive penny of funding from the EU in all the time it has been a member state of the EU.
Receiving a tiny part of the UK`s own money back out of the billions it sends into the EU`s coffers every year, does not constitute positive funding from the EU. Even then, the UK is fined by the EU if its does not spend its OWN money the way the EU tells it to.
I would love to do business with a remainer who still believes that the UK gets any cash at all from the EU.
Before I let them do any business at all with me, I would charge them say 20 quid before I would even let them talk to me about doing any business with them let alone actually do any business,
Out of the twenty quid they just handed me (for absolutely nothing) I would give them 3 of their OWN pounds back, but tell them I will punish them, if they don't spend it the way I want them to. After that I will then proceed to sell them more of my goods, and services than I let them sell their goods to me (which mean my businesses will be busier than theirs (to the tune of 71 billion pounds worth in 2016 alone, and for almost the entire time the UK has been in the EU) On top of that I will seize part of their particular natural assets for which I will pay them nothing, whilst making billions a year from it myself, and yet there are idiots out there, who think all this constitutes a great deal for the UK.????? What in heavens name planet are they on?
What are you talking about? Everyone has known that the UK was a net contributor to the EU at least since the millenium. That's what "Net Contributor" means! Here's a BBC article from a decade ago showing just that:Receiving a tiny part of the UK`s own money back out of the billions it sends into the EU`s coffers every year, does not constitute positive funding from the EU. Even then, the UK is fined by the EU if its does not spend its OWN money the way the EU tells it to.
I would love to do business with a remainer who still believes that the UK gets any cash at all from the EU.
Before I let them do any business at all with me, I would charge them say 20 quid before I would even let them talk to me about doing any business with them let alone actually do any business,
Out of the twenty quid they just handed me (for absolutely nothing) I would give them 3 of their OWN pounds back, but tell them I will punish them, if they don't spend it the way I want them to. After that I will then proceed to sell them more of my goods, and services than I let them sell their goods to me (which mean my businesses will be busier than theirs (to the tune of 71 billion pounds worth in 2016 alone, and for almost the entire time the UK has been in the EU) On top of that I will seize part of their particular natural assets for which I will pay them nothing, whilst making billions a year from it myself, and yet there are idiots out there, who think all this constitutes a great deal for the UK.????? What in heavens name planet are they on?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8036097.stm#star...
If you play with the figures you would see that (back then) we actually paid a smaller proportion of our GNP into Europe than anyone else thanks to the rebate we negotiated.
TooMany2cvs said:
When did you last vote for a minister or even PM at Westminster? They're the nearest equivalent to a commissioner. They don't make the decisions - the MEPs do that.
The European parliament can't initiate legislation, they are a pseudo parliament to give a superficial appearance of democracy with the decisions made elsewhere.Absolutely gob-smacking ignorance by the whingers about the EU; bet many couldn't give a stuff before the Referendum and only since consider themselves pseudo-aggrieved due to some warped prejudice or other rather than an intelligent view of what the role of the EU and what the UK derives from Membership actually was!
The nonsensical crying about how the 'EU doesn't look after our best interests' Jesus!
It is the role of the UK Government to look after the best interests of its Citizens. It does this - or should be - when dealing with any Foreign Body, including Membership with the EU.
It is the EU's role to look after the best interests of ALL its Member States, albeit it surely must be common sense that the more you invest in a Project, the more you put into it, the greater the benefits will be for you. The UK enjoyed a prominent position that it has elected to throw away. It paid a princely Membership contribution sum, yes, because it could afford the Gold Service Membership position and as a result it took away far more value in benefits.
Anyway, Boris used to just be a funny, bumbling sideshow. Now he has emerged as a dangerous, deceitful, self-serving Politician who is trampling upon his fellow Citizens to get to where he wants to be.
The nonsensical crying about how the 'EU doesn't look after our best interests' Jesus!
It is the role of the UK Government to look after the best interests of its Citizens. It does this - or should be - when dealing with any Foreign Body, including Membership with the EU.
It is the EU's role to look after the best interests of ALL its Member States, albeit it surely must be common sense that the more you invest in a Project, the more you put into it, the greater the benefits will be for you. The UK enjoyed a prominent position that it has elected to throw away. It paid a princely Membership contribution sum, yes, because it could afford the Gold Service Membership position and as a result it took away far more value in benefits.
Anyway, Boris used to just be a funny, bumbling sideshow. Now he has emerged as a dangerous, deceitful, self-serving Politician who is trampling upon his fellow Citizens to get to where he wants to be.
Frank7 said:
JulianPH said:
Fair enough, we have always seemed to agree, I'll rephrase it:
Having seen and heard the stance of the EU since the vote, would you still vote remain if you had the choice again now?
I voted Remain, I'd vote Remain again, it seemed to me that a lot of Leavers main reason to vote Leave, was because they thought that the flow of immigrants would stop.Having seen and heard the stance of the EU since the vote, would you still vote remain if you had the choice again now?
As it looks like quite a few are still coming, and probably will still be coming if the U.K. has to bite the bullet in negotiations to get a toehold in the Single Market, maybe, (only maybe), some Leavers might change their minds.
A lot of respected economists have said that U.K. will be okay after leaving Europe, but a lot of others, equally respected, say that we've dropped a b
k of biblical proportions.Both my sons quit this country, and live in Europe, one has a good work ethic, and will work his socks off if there's a euro to be made, the other, as much as I love him, is a bum, who works because he has to, but would sit in the sun all day if he could get away with it.
Both of them are adamant that they'd never return to U.K.
The reality is, however, that leavers were (and are) more concerned about restoring Sovereignty and home rule (rather than succumbing to a federal EU superstate run by an unelected Commission). Yes, this did involve stopping the open boarders, but that was not the driving force for those I know.
The head of the BOE has already said he was wrong with the bank's economic outlook after a leave vote. The FTSE is up (I agree this is because the pound has fallen - you see, us leaver's do understand matters) and exports are higher and unemployment is at its lowest in recent history.
Coolbanana said:
It is the EU's role to look after the best interests of ALL its Member States, albeit it surely must be common sense that the more you invest in a Project, the more you put into it, the greater the benefits will be for you. The UK enjoyed a prominent position that it has elected to throw away. It paid a princely Membership contribution sum, yes, because it could afford the Gold Service Membership position and as a result it took away far more value in benefits.
Absolutely gob smacking ignorance.Wake up,cult member.
Dr Jekyll said:
TooMany2cvs said:
When did you last vote for a minister or even PM at Westminster? They're the nearest equivalent to a commissioner. They don't make the decisions - the MEPs do that.
The European parliament can't initiate legislation, they are a pseudo parliament to give a superficial appearance of democracy with the decisions made elsewhere.TooMany2cvs said:
When did you last vote for a minister or even PM at Westminster? They're the nearest equivalent to a commissioner. They don't make the decisions - the MEPs do that.
When I last voted for an MP or in a General Election. Those that go on to win the vote have a mandate to form a Government. Commissioner's are appointed, not democratically elected. TooMany2cvs said:
Remember - ministers don't have to be MPs... and three of the last five PMs to take office have not done so on the back of leading their party into an election, but purely from an internal party selection.
Ministers are always MP's with the very small exception of Life Peers. PM's have to have been democratically voted MPs who succeed to office off the back of a democratic party leadership vote.TooMany2cvs said:
One of the commisioners is appointed by the UK PM. The portfolios are proposed by the president (elected from the commissioners by the heads of the member governments), and confirmed by MEPs.
Fantastic! You have proved that they are appointed (not voted in) by the president (not voted in) and that MEPs only confirm what has happened. Brilliant!TooMany2cvs said:
Perhaps if people understood that a bit better, the UK wouldn't have been a third down on voting strength in the European Parliament since 2014.
Funkycoldribena said:
Absolutely gob smacking ignorance.
Wake up,cult member.
Wake up,cult member.
Love it!
One day...not so far away...when reality hits so hard even you cannot avoid it, maybe you will understand.
When you came up with your own version of reality, were you on your 4th or 5th pint 'down the Pub' chatting to equally 'educated' mates?
Coolbanana said:
Funkycoldribena said:
Absolutely gob smacking ignorance.
Wake up,cult member.
Wake up,cult member.
Love it!
One day...not so far away...when reality hits so hard even you cannot avoid it, maybe you will understand.
When you came up with your own version of reality, were you on your 4th or 5th pint 'down the Pub' chatting to equally 'educated' mates?
Still waiting for the emergency budget by the way..
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff