Boris. £350m for the NHS if we leave EU. Again.
Discussion
TooMany2cvs said:
How are the UK's requirements so massively different to the rest of the EU, and how come we don't press those specific requirements harder when it comes to negotiating?
If you haven’t realised that the economies of the different European countries are often quite different, then not sure what else needs to be said.TooMany2cvs said:
sidicks said:
Ignoring the rest of the nonsense above, are the current trades deals the EU has designed to meet the specific requirements of the U.K. or to provide a compromise across all the EU countries?
How are the UK's requirements so massively different to the rest of the EU, and how come we don't press those specific requirements harder when it comes to negotiating?There are several main countries where the EU does not currently have a trade deal.
The US. TTIP was nearly there, then Trumplethinskin pulled up the drawbridge. But everybody hated it and said it was a terrible deal giving a mahoosive back door for the US to simply annex the UK...
India. Negotiations stalled from India's end when Modi came to power, because he's not that bothered in doing a deal. For talks to get anywhere, easier migration for larger numbers of Indians is almost certainly going to have to be agreed.
China. The big showstoppers are China's big internal issues - including IP and protectionism.
Now, can somebody please explain how the UK (65m people, $2.6tn GDP) is going to get around all of those issues SO much easier than the EU (510m people, $18tn GDP)...?
don'tbesilly said:
17,410,742 people voted to leave the EU because of the message on the side of a red bus!
Second thoughts.......
can't stop....................still going...............
So the single most visually consistent and widespread message the leave campaign used had nothing whatsoever to do with the result?Second thoughts.......
can't stop....................still going...............Doesn't that mean the campaign was run by total incompetents with no clue of getting their message across...? What should they have headlined instead, IYHO?
It wasn't even just the bus, either - it was used heavily as a backdrop for all sorts of events and media.
Dominic Cummings certainly thought it was one of the clinchers. Who? Oh, just the man in charge of the official leave campaign... What would he know anyway?
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/dominic-cumm...
Cummings said:
Our story rested on five simple foundations that came from listening very hard to what people really knew, thought, and said:
...
2. ‘The official bill of EU membership is £350 million per week – let’s spend our money on our priorities like the NHS instead.’ (Sometimes we said ‘we send the EU £350m’ to provoke people into argument. This worked much better than I thought it would...
...and that the intent was to do exactly that......
2. ‘The official bill of EU membership is £350 million per week – let’s spend our money on our priorities like the NHS instead.’ (Sometimes we said ‘we send the EU £350m’ to provoke people into argument. This worked much better than I thought it would...
Cummings said:
Some people now claim this was cynical and we never intended to spend more on the NHS. Wrong. Boris and Gove were agreed and determined to do exactly this. On the morning of 24 June they both came into HQ. In the tiny ‘operations room’ amid beer cans, champagne bottles, and general bedlam I said to Boris – on day one of being PM you should immediately announce the extra £100 million per week for the NHS [the specific pledge we’d made] is starting today and more will be coming – you should start off by being unusual, a political who actually delivers what they promise. ‘Absolutely. ABSOLUTELY. We MUST do this, no question, we’ll park our tanks EVERYWHERE’ he said. Gove strongly agreed.
Mind you, even he now thinks that it's all a bloody silly idea and shaping up to be a "guaranteed debacle"...http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...
IroningMan said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Now, can somebody please explain how the UK (65m people, $2.6tn GDP) is going to get around all of those issues SO much easier than the EU (510m people, $18tn GDP)...?
I can't see you getting any cogent answers to this. The odd reference to needing to 'jump with the Team and come on in for the Big Win', perhaps, but nothing you might be able to file under 'This Makes Sense'.sidicks said:
TooMany2cvs said:
How are the UK's requirements so massively different to the rest of the EU, and how come we don't press those specific requirements harder when it comes to negotiating?
If you haven’t realised that the economies of the different European countries are often quite different, then not sure what else needs to be said.TooMany2cvs said:
don'tbesilly said:
17,410,742 people voted to leave the EU because of the message on the side of a red bus!
So the single most visually consistent and widespread message the leave campaign used had nothing whatsoever to do with the result?TooMany2cvs said:
don'tbesilly said:
17,410,742 people voted to leave the EU because of the message on the side of a red bus!
Second thoughts....... can't stop....................still going...............
So the single most visually consistent and widespread message the leave campaign used had nothing whatsoever to do with the result?Second thoughts.......
can't stop....................still going...............Perhaps you could put a number or percentage of the Leave voters who did vote to leave as a result of the Leave campaigns use of the NHS in the campaign.
Whilst you're doing the exercise, you could do the same in regards the people who voted Remain as a result of the 'Project Fear' the Remain campaign ran in their campaign.
Thanks in advance
don'tbesilly said:
Perhaps you could put a number or percentage of the Leave voters who did vote to leave as a result of the Leave campaigns use of the NHS in the campaign.
If it was more than 1.2m (7.2% of leave voters), then it changed the result.don'tbesilly said:
Whilst you're doing the exercise, you could do the same in regards the people who voted Remain as a result of the 'Project Fear' the Remain campaign ran in their campaign.
Ah, that old saw...We all know where the true "project fear" was, and still is.
TooMany2cvs said:
don'tbesilly said:
Perhaps you could put a number or percentage of the Leave voters who did vote to leave as a result of the Leave campaigns use of the NHS in the campaign.
If it was more than 1.2m (7.2% of leave voters), then it changed the result.don'tbesilly said:
Whilst you're doing the exercise, you could do the same in regards the people who voted Remain as a result of the 'Project Fear' the Remain campaign ran in their campaign.
Ah, that old saw...We all know where the true "project fear" was, and still is.
Hey ho.
TooMany2cvs said:
If it was more than 1.2m (7.2% of leave voters), then it changed the result.
I'd wager it was a lot more than that. Boris isn't playing to an insignificant Base - like Trump, he knows that there is a sizeable population who will hang on his every word so long as it reinforces their particular bias; as ignorant as it is. He is playing them for fools and laughing all the way to career-advancement (assuming his own gamble pays off). There is no way Boris created that slogan without first taking advice as to what a large segment of the Electorate might believe. I can call Boris many things, but dumb isn't one of them. He's a very intelligent individual and is Puppet Master to many Leavers.
Of course that is extremely uncomfortable to all Leavers who do not want to believe it to be true, that they won because that slogan caught many, hook, line and sinker. Evidently, Boris and Team still believe it does. Again, we marvel at how Trump's lies have little to zero effect on his Base because they want to believe he is their Messiah and his word is Gospel; he preaches their prejudices. Same here with Boris and Brexit.
Genuinely informed Leavers know the difference and I raise no issue with them or how they arrived at their decisions; it is their choice. However, we cannot dismiss what Boris has and is still doing and the effect it has and is having. Naturally, it still plays to the result informed Leavers want, they just do not like to be associated with how it came about.
Coolbanana said:
There is no way Boris created that slogan without first taking advice as to what a large segment of the Electorate might believe. I can call Boris many things, but dumb isn't one of them. He's a very intelligent individual and is Puppet Master to many Leavers.
Of course that is extremely uncomfortable to all Leavers who do not want to believe it to be true, that they won because that slogan caught many, hook, line and sinker. Evidently, Boris and Team still believe it does. Again, we marvel at how Trump's lies have little to zero effect on his Base because they want to believe he is their Messiah and his word is Gospel; he preaches their prejudices. Same here with Boris and Brexit.
Genuinely informed Leavers know the difference and I raise no issue with them or how they arrived at their decisions; it is their choice. However, we cannot dismiss what Boris has and is still doing and the effect it has and is having. Naturally, it still plays to the result informed Leavers want, they just do not like to be associated with how it came about.
The reasoning behind the £350m slogan was that the Remain side would feel obliged to say 'oh no, it's Only £100m a week.' Certainly nobody was expected to believe that the gross figure was net, and if they did, would putting £100m on the side of the bus instead really have made a difference?Of course that is extremely uncomfortable to all Leavers who do not want to believe it to be true, that they won because that slogan caught many, hook, line and sinker. Evidently, Boris and Team still believe it does. Again, we marvel at how Trump's lies have little to zero effect on his Base because they want to believe he is their Messiah and his word is Gospel; he preaches their prejudices. Same here with Boris and Brexit.
Genuinely informed Leavers know the difference and I raise no issue with them or how they arrived at their decisions; it is their choice. However, we cannot dismiss what Boris has and is still doing and the effect it has and is having. Naturally, it still plays to the result informed Leavers want, they just do not like to be associated with how it came about.
TooMany2cvs said:
don'tbesilly said:
17,410,742 people voted to leave the EU because of the message on the side of a red bus!
Second thoughts....... can't stop....................still going...............
So the single most visually consistent and widespread message the leave campaign used had nothing whatsoever to do with the result?Second thoughts.......
can't stop....................still going...............Doesn't that mean the campaign was run by total incompetents with no clue of getting their message across...? What should they have headlined instead, IYHO?
It wasn't even just the bus, either - it was used heavily as a backdrop for all sorts of events and media.
Dominic Cummings certainly thought it was one of the clinchers. Who? Oh, just the man in charge of the official leave campaign... What would he know anyway?
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/dominic-cumm...
Cummings said:
Our story rested on five simple foundations that came from listening very hard to what people really knew, thought, and said:
...
2. ‘The official bill of EU membership is £350 million per week – let’s spend our money on our priorities like the NHS instead.’ (Sometimes we said ‘we send the EU £350m’ to provoke people into argument. This worked much better than I thought it would...
...and that the intent was to do exactly that......
2. ‘The official bill of EU membership is £350 million per week – let’s spend our money on our priorities like the NHS instead.’ (Sometimes we said ‘we send the EU £350m’ to provoke people into argument. This worked much better than I thought it would...
Cummings said:
Some people now claim this was cynical and we never intended to spend more on the NHS. Wrong. Boris and Gove were agreed and determined to do exactly this. On the morning of 24 June they both came into HQ. In the tiny ‘operations room’ amid beer cans, champagne bottles, and general bedlam I said to Boris – on day one of being PM you should immediately announce the extra £100 million per week for the NHS [the specific pledge we’d made] is starting today and more will be coming – you should start off by being unusual, a political who actually delivers what they promise. ‘Absolutely. ABSOLUTELY. We MUST do this, no question, we’ll park our tanks EVERYWHERE’ he said. Gove strongly agreed.
Mind you, even he now thinks that it's all a bloody silly idea and shaping up to be a "guaranteed debacle"...http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...
They all knew what they were voting for.
They just can't tell you.
Or agree between themselves.
But they know they want it more than anything.
And they will be very cross indeed if they don't get it.
Whatever it is this month.
Coolbanana said:
I'd wager it was a lot more than that. Boris isn't playing to an insignificant Base - like Trump, he knows that there is a sizeable population who will hang on his every word so long as it reinforces their particular bias; as ignorant as it is. He is playing them for fools and laughing all the way to career-advancement (assuming his own gamble pays off).
As an ex Mayor would you not think that Boris' largest support would be in London?mx5nut said:
According to NP&E Leavers, nobody at all cared about diverting money to the NHS - they completely ignored all the marketing in your post.
They all knew what they were voting for.
They just can't tell you.
Or agree between themselves.
But they know they want it more than anything.
And they will be very cross indeed if they don't get it.
Whatever it is this month.
You mean whatever it is that you want to make up this month?They all knew what they were voting for.
They just can't tell you.
Or agree between themselves.
But they know they want it more than anything.
And they will be very cross indeed if they don't get it.
Whatever it is this month.
Lots of people voted leave for lots of different reasons. Enough people in fact that the result of the referendum was to leave the EU. Have you not understood this yet? Repeatedly misrepresenting what 'they' wanted just makes you look a bit ignorant.
mx5nut said:
jsf said:
Still fighting a campaign that ended over 18 months ago. When will this moaning madness end?
We still live in a democracy despite the best efforts of the anti democratic Leave mob!How is moaning about the bus helping you? It's just reinforcing one of the reasons why we voted leave.
and around we go again.
Cant you come up with something original?
jsf said:
How is moaning about the bus helping you? It's just reinforcing one of the reasons why we voted leave.
If you think it's about the bus, you're missing the point.The bus is simply symbolic of the dishonesty of the campaign promising a land of milk and honey it knew couldn't happen in reality.
And people are still falling for a dishonest campaign that ended 18 months ago
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff