Boris. £350m for the NHS if we leave EU. Again.
Discussion
Eddie Strohacker said:
Lovely sentiment. After all, David Davis himself said, 'if a democracy cannot change its mind it ceases to be a democracy', helpfully showing the light and the way to more enlightened thinkers than you tend to find on these pages.
Some may complain at what they see as an attempt to undermine the (lol) will of about a million people, once you cancel the rest out, but others may look on & see that we're about to legally lock down phase 1 of Brexit, binding us to the SM & CU rules without any representation in Europe to fall back on as well as the emerging likelihood that we'll ask Europe to stay in the 760 odd trading arrangements as long as possible & that the one minute after midnight thing that Liam Fox blathered on in word shaped sounds that came out of his air miles hole were in fact nonsense & draw an inescapable conclusion that actually taking back control seems to leave us with no control at all & therefore thank nice Mr. Tusk for offering a way out of the folly.
But I doubt it, since this place is more about sticking the boot in than anything else.
It's the same message that has been said from the start, just repeated again. The Anti-democrats are firing on all cylinders at the moment.Some may complain at what they see as an attempt to undermine the (lol) will of about a million people, once you cancel the rest out, but others may look on & see that we're about to legally lock down phase 1 of Brexit, binding us to the SM & CU rules without any representation in Europe to fall back on as well as the emerging likelihood that we'll ask Europe to stay in the 760 odd trading arrangements as long as possible & that the one minute after midnight thing that Liam Fox blathered on in word shaped sounds that came out of his air miles hole were in fact nonsense & draw an inescapable conclusion that actually taking back control seems to leave us with no control at all & therefore thank nice Mr. Tusk for offering a way out of the folly.
But I doubt it, since this place is more about sticking the boot in than anything else.
Seems to be the only thing remainers can do.
They certainly cant offer the UK anything that would change the mind of the majority of leave voters.
jsf said:
They certainly cant offer the UK anything that would change the mind of the majority of leave voters.
I'm tempted to demand for twenty posts in a row, a Don't be silly or Sid style got any evidence for that? But then you're talking in generalisations & frankly, I'm losing the will to live, so I'll let it slide.Eddie Strohacker said:
jsf said:
They certainly cant offer the UK anything that would change the mind of the majority of leave voters.
I'm tempted to demand for twenty posts in a row, a Don't be silly or Sid style got any evidence for that? But then you're talking in generalisations & frankly, I'm losing the will to live, so I'll let it slide.What remainers are relying on is that leavers are going to s
t themselves and lose their bottle.There is certainly nothing new on offer.
Eddie Strohacker said:
I'm tempted to demand for twenty posts in a row, a Don't be silly or Sid style got any evidence for that? But then you're talking in generalisations & frankly, I'm losing the will to live, so I'll let it slide.
Where’s your evidence that we will be subject to all SM and CU rules, the direct opposite of what has been talked about by the government?jsf said:
We do know what the main drivers for Brexit were. Nothing has changed to alter those drivers.
What remainers are relying on is that leavers are going to st themselves and lose their bottle.
There is certainly nothing new on offer.
Do remainers need to offer anything new?What remainers are relying on is that leavers are going to s
t themselves and lose their bottle.There is certainly nothing new on offer.
It seems to me the promised bexit utopia is slowly unraveling all by itself.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Do remainers need to offer anything new?
It seems to me the promised bexit utopia is slowly unraveling all by itself.
This talk of ‘utopia’ is similarly to the mx5nut school of sound bites.It seems to me the promised bexit utopia is slowly unraveling all by itself.
Many of those voting for Brexit felt that this would be an improved situation over the current situation for a variety of different reasons.
Few, that I am aware of, have suggested that there were no risks or that there were not costs as well as benefits to Brexit, just as there are for the EU. Suggesting otherwise is disingenuous.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Do remainers need to offer anything new?
It seems to me the promised bexit utopia is slowly unraveling all by itself.
If they want to change the mind of Leavers, of course they do.It seems to me the promised bexit utopia is slowly unraveling all by itself.
Your "typical" leave voter has lived through 4 recessions whilst in the EU, why do you think a potential downturn is going to put them off leaving a political block heading in a direction they don't agree with?
The leave vote was about fundamental political issues, not just economics.
jsf said:
If they want to change the mind of Leavers, of course they do.
Your "typical" leave voter has lived through 4 recessions whilst in the EU, why do you think a potential downturn is going to put them off leaving a political block heading in a direction they don't agree with?
The leave vote was about fundamental political issues, not just economics.
I don't think as many people hate the EU as you think do.Your "typical" leave voter has lived through 4 recessions whilst in the EU, why do you think a potential downturn is going to put them off leaving a political block heading in a direction they don't agree with?
The leave vote was about fundamental political issues, not just economics.
It is entirely possible they had no particular issues with the EU but were swayed by the alternative promises being made, the £350M as the obvious example. Once they realise they have been duped they may be willing to reassess their decision given the chance.
jsf said:
If they want to change the mind of Leavers, of course they do.
Your "typical" leave voter has lived through 4 recessions whilst in the EU, why do you think a potential downturn is going to put them off leaving a political block heading in a direction they don't agree with?
The leave vote was about fundamental political issues, not just economics.
Leavers tell themselves this constantly. People uninformed enough to chart a wholly new direction for at least a generation based on the word of two or three cabinet careerists, a fascist Arthur Daley look-a-like & a proven bumbling liar are the same kind of people to bend in the wind the minute their Sunday joint of Beef & Nutella go up 30%. It's always about the economics.Your "typical" leave voter has lived through 4 recessions whilst in the EU, why do you think a potential downturn is going to put them off leaving a political block heading in a direction they don't agree with?
The leave vote was about fundamental political issues, not just economics.
Eddie Strohacker said:
jsf said:
If they want to change the mind of Leavers, of course they do.
Your "typical" leave voter has lived through 4 recessions whilst in the EU, why do you think a potential downturn is going to put them off leaving a political block heading in a direction they don't agree with?
The leave vote was about fundamental political issues, not just economics.
Leavers tell themselves this constantly. People uninformed enough to chart a wholly new direction for at least a generation based on the word of two or three cabinet careerists, a fascist Arthur Daley look-a-like & a proven bumbling liar are the same kind of people to bend in the wind the minute their Sunday joint of Beef & Nutella go up 30%. It's always about the economics.Your "typical" leave voter has lived through 4 recessions whilst in the EU, why do you think a potential downturn is going to put them off leaving a political block heading in a direction they don't agree with?
The leave vote was about fundamental political issues, not just economics.
The desire to leave the EU is not a new one, i'm far from convinced the campaigns changed a thing other than scaring some people who wanted to leave or were ambivalent, to vote remain. There is certainly little positive love for the EU and what it is morphing into, not just here but on mainland Europe.
From what's posted across the threads here and articles on the more Remain leaning news outlets it seems another referendum would be fought yet again on how bad it would be if we leave. I'm not sure that another negative campaign would do it, they would really need to highlight some positives and try and push those to have half a chance.
jsf said:
It used to be the economy stupid, not anymore.
The desire to leave the EU is not a new one, i'm far from convinced the campaigns changed a thing other than scaring some people who wanted to leave or were ambivalent, to vote remain. There is certainly little positive love for the EU and what it is morphing into, not just here but on mainland Europe.
Again, a JSF mantra repeated so often it becomes the truth. You don't have to look very far in any direction to see what happens when you make people poorer., But I'm happy for you, you're in a little bubble, firmly staying there, content in that world. Good for you.The desire to leave the EU is not a new one, i'm far from convinced the campaigns changed a thing other than scaring some people who wanted to leave or were ambivalent, to vote remain. There is certainly little positive love for the EU and what it is morphing into, not just here but on mainland Europe.
sidicks said:
Hayek said:
This is why they lost, they think it's all about economics. I don't think it's about economics for a majority of leave voters even.
I suppose they have no come back on the non-economic arguments so are left resorting to questionable financial projections.
Mx5mnut hasn’t a clue I suppose they have no come back on the non-economic arguments so are left resorting to questionable financial projections.
Eddie Strohacker said:
Again, a JSF mantra repeated so often it becomes the truth. You don't have to look very far in any direction to see what happens when you make people poorer., But I'm happy for you, you're in a little bubble, firmly staying there, content in that world. Good for you.
Again, you fail to address the comment.
Eddie Strohacker said:
Lovely sentiment. After all, David Davis himself said, 'if a democracy cannot change its mind it ceases to be a democracy', helpfully showing the light and the way to more enlightened thinkers than you tend to find on these pages.
Some may complain at what they see as an attempt to undermine the (lol) will of about a million people, once you cancel the rest out, but others may look on & see that we're about to legally lock down phase 1 of Brexit, binding us to the SM & CU rules without any representation in Europe to fall back on as well as the emerging likelihood that we'll ask Europe to stay in the 760 odd trading arrangements as long as possible & that the one minute after midnight thing that Liam Fox blathered on in word shaped sounds that came out of his air miles hole were in fact nonsense & draw an inescapable conclusion that actually taking back control seems to leave us with no control at all & therefore thank nice Mr. Tusk for offering a way out of the folly.
But I doubt it, since this place is more about sticking the boot in than anything else.
Spot on Eddie; it sounds like the fog is clearing. The UK is a democracy that was in the EEC and then became part of EU. The enlightened thinkers, who turned out in slightly higher numbers than 'the others', used democracy to instigate Brexit. Some may complain at what they see as an attempt to undermine the (lol) will of about a million people, once you cancel the rest out, but others may look on & see that we're about to legally lock down phase 1 of Brexit, binding us to the SM & CU rules without any representation in Europe to fall back on as well as the emerging likelihood that we'll ask Europe to stay in the 760 odd trading arrangements as long as possible & that the one minute after midnight thing that Liam Fox blathered on in word shaped sounds that came out of his air miles hole were in fact nonsense & draw an inescapable conclusion that actually taking back control seems to leave us with no control at all & therefore thank nice Mr. Tusk for offering a way out of the folly.
But I doubt it, since this place is more about sticking the boot in than anything else.
UK Democracy drove Brexit.........I'm less keen on the EU's version of democracy where you get told to vote again until you vote the way that suits the EU Commission's agenda.
If there were a second referendum and the result was remain then I would dislike it intensely but would respect it..........
Edited by Crackie on Wednesday 17th January 18:59
Crackie said:
Spot on Eddie; it sounds like the fog is clearing. The UK is a democracy that was in the EEC and then became part of EU. The enlightened thinkers, who turned out in slightly higher numbers than 'the others', used democracy to instigate Brexit.
UK Democracy drove Brexit.........I'm less keen on the EU's version of democracy where you get told to vote again until you vote the way that suits the EU Commission's agenda.
If there were a second referendum and the result was remain then I would dislike it intensely but would respect it..........
The key difference being you'd know what you were getting. On that basis, presumably lies the reason why the government have sought legal advice on reversing article 50 but refuse to disclose it. Impact assessments anyone?UK Democracy drove Brexit.........I'm less keen on the EU's version of democracy where you get told to vote again until you vote the way that suits the EU Commission's agenda.
If there were a second referendum and the result was remain then I would dislike it intensely but would respect it..........
Edited by Crackie on Wednesday 17th January 18:59
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