And...It's Spain.. will it kick off ?
Discussion
The most sensible result will be a redrawing of the constitution and then a process to allow a referendum, if that goes for leave then a process to form a state.
Is that going to happen? No idea. The fact Catalonia is where the wealth is means that's going to make Spain poorer.
This could go anywhere, Rajoy never thought this would be the result. It may not have been prior to cracking all those heads.
Is that going to happen? No idea. The fact Catalonia is where the wealth is means that's going to make Spain poorer.
This could go anywhere, Rajoy never thought this would be the result. It may not have been prior to cracking all those heads.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 22 December 00:37
Mothersruin said:
I feel sorry for Spain, as it's going to pull the country apart...
Me too. It's not really an actual country though, is it? Not in the cultural sense that say the UK or France or Germany is. It's been held together by draconian forces and has never really united. Given their past, surely the Basque region are now going to wish to become independent too?Mothersruin said:
in turn it will help pull the EU apart, and that's only a good thing.
Depends how it pans out. As we've seen with the Euro and Greece, the dogma of the mission and the flat-footedness of EU leaders tends to crush the most vulnerable members of the herd. Any problems with Spanish banks or bonds could trigger catastrophic events, potentially as bad as 2008.Digga said:
It's not really an actual country though, is it? Not in the cultural sense that say the UK or France or Germany is. It's been held together by draconian forces and has never really united.
Have you ever heard of Scotland and Wales...?I know you're meaning the Franco dictatorship, but that ended 40 years ago. It's not like Yugoslavia was - Catalonia and the Basque region have been part of a unified Spain for longer than Scotland has been part of the UK, and a HELL of a lot longer than Germany's been unified (even ignoring the 1990 reunification of East and West Germany).
Mothersruin said:
I wonder if Madrid will do as the EU did with Ireland and goes for a second vote to get the correct result..?
Rajoy has already been making furious phone calls, he's alleged to have already spoken to Blair, Mandelson, Clegg, Farron and Cable. Rajoy couldn't get through to Heseltine or Branson, he did manage to get through to ///ajd, but ///ajd declined to comment as he was too busy posting on PH, so put the phone down!
TooMany2cvs said:
Have you ever heard of Scotland and Wales...?
Yes, I lived in one of them when I was a kid and, in fact, one of my sisters was born there. Despite all the rivalry and the recent independence nonsense from the SNP, the UK is far, far more united than Spain.TooMany2cvs said:
I know you're meaning the Franco dictatorship, but that ended 40 years ago. It's not like Yugoslavia was - Catalonia and the Basque region have been part of a unified Spain for longer than Scotland has been part of the UK, and a HELL of a lot longer than Germany's been unified (even ignoring the 1990 reunification of East and West Germany).
Wow, a whole 40 years ago? I actually can't believe you don't think that an issue.The Basque region may well have been part of Spain for many years, indeed a great number of the Armada's ships were built there, but that does not mean they are happy being Spanish.
Agree. You can not coerce an union with one party kicking and screaming. The days of the jackboot and sword are over. Might does not equal harmony and memories are very long - especially if you tried to quash cultural differences like language etc and even made naming your child in Catalan illegal once... It can only go one way and that is a progressive 21st century version of equality and freedom to self determination rather than subjugation to the master state that assimilated you once. Most Brits get this but the Spanish very much do not, sadly.
I’m hearing on the news that whilst the pro independence candidates won the most seats the reality is that 52% of the votes were cast for anti-independence candidates.
This is entirely believable as unlike a straight yes/no referendum a regional election (like a general election) can throw up these kind of anomalies.
This is entirely believable as unlike a straight yes/no referendum a regional election (like a general election) can throw up these kind of anomalies.
gadgetmac said:
I’m hearing on the news that whilst the pro independence candidates won the most seats the reality is that 52% of the votes were cast for anti-independence candidates.
This is entirely believable as unlike a straight yes/no referendum a regional election (like a general election) can throw up these kind of anomalies.
Yes, it's a kind of worst of all outcomes really; a defined result but not a clear resolution.This is entirely believable as unlike a straight yes/no referendum a regional election (like a general election) can throw up these kind of anomalies.
gadgetmac said:
I’m hearing on the news that whilst the pro independence candidates won the most seats the reality is that 52% of the votes were cast for anti-independence candidates.
This is entirely believable as unlike a straight yes/no referendum a regional election (like a general election) can throw up these kind of anomalies.
It also doesn't matter, because the vote was for seats in the local parliament.This is entirely believable as unlike a straight yes/no referendum a regional election (like a general election) can throw up these kind of anomalies.
Its the same as Clinton having more votes than Trump yet not gaining more electoral college votes.
What will be interesting now is how this is handled in Madrid, because they haven't fixed the problem of Catalan independence.
jsf said:
gadgetmac said:
I’m hearing on the news that whilst the pro independence candidates won the most seats the reality is that 52% of the votes were cast for anti-independence candidates.
This is entirely believable as unlike a straight yes/no referendum a regional election (like a general election) can throw up these kind of anomalies.
It also doesn't matter, because the vote was for seats in the local parliament.This is entirely believable as unlike a straight yes/no referendum a regional election (like a general election) can throw up these kind of anomalies.
Its the same as Clinton having more votes than Trump yet not gaining more electoral college votes.
What will be interesting now is how this is handled in Madrid, because they haven't fixed the problem of Catalan independence.
From a Spanish govt POV I’d call another referendum very soon and put this to bed for another 25 years.
gadgetmac said:
It does matter in that it gives a pointer as to how a fresh referendum might go. The Clinton/Trump point is not valid in this respect.
From a Spanish govt POV I’d call another referendum very soon and put this to bed for another 25 years.
I wouldn't be so brave as to make the assumption a referendum vote would match a parliamentary vote.From a Spanish govt POV I’d call another referendum very soon and put this to bed for another 25 years.
The point i was making re trump/clinton was that you look at the result from the system of the ballot, you cant cherry pick the numbers that don't matter to that scenario.
This thread seems the closest to "meanwhile, in Spain...." Rapper's jail sentence upheld for lyrics insulting the King and supporting terror:
https://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/legal-...
Can't speak spanish, but can't think of similar cases over here.
https://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/legal-...
Can't speak spanish, but can't think of similar cases over here.
glazbagun said:
This thread seems the closest to "meanwhile, in Spain...." Rapper's jail sentence upheld for lyrics insulting the King and supporting terror:
https://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/legal-...
Can't speak spanish, but can't think of similar cases over here.
some people might be surprised by this.a spanish friend assures me things like have gone on for the last 40 years. the regime may have toned down a bit but there are actions and words that will see you get jail time or a kicking from the police that wouldn't raise an eyebrow here.https://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/legal-...
Can't speak spanish, but can't think of similar cases over here.
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